Electirity, wall plug with no ground/earth

[socialbeaver]

Hello, 

 

I hope someone can help me out here as I'm no expert in electric wiring. 

I'm renting a place in Thailand and none of the plugs in the rooms have any ground, so not something I can really change unless I want to move out. Also there isn’t anything I could clamp on metal that is grounded, all the pipes are PVC and there is not heater :) 

 

But on some devices like my raspberry Pi in a metal case (great for passive cooling in the heat here) I get a bit of a "tingle sensation" and a hum when I run my finger on the case... 

Also, if I'm out of luck and touch certain part of my notebook I get a little feeling like a pinch sometimes... 

 

So, for certain a ground is missing here and I'm getting a little bit of a charge on my fingers. 

Is there something portable I could use or is getting an online UPS to “clean” up my current my best solution? 

 

Thanks 

[akio123008]

1 minute ago, socialbeaver said:

So, for certain a ground is missing here and I'm getting a little bit of a charge on my fingers. 

Is there something portable I could use or is getting an online UPS to “clean” up my current my best solution? 

The feeling could be annoying, but it's not dangerous. It has not much to do with "dirty power" as you may suspect, it's simply due to how the power supply of the device you use is wired. Even on perfectly clean power this can happen.

 

The way to deal with this problem is to somehow ground the equipment. You mentioned there's essentially no way of doing this, but I suggest you have another look to make sure because this is really the cheapest and most effective solution. 

 

Using a UPS might help, but indeed you'd need an online UPS, which is probably a bit expensive.

 

Otherwise you could try to use an isolation transformer.

 

 

 

 

[TetraSky]

Move out.

 

That's the only solution. Because like you said, no heating and pipes are PVC, so you wouldn't be able to run a wire to these things for a makeshift ground. Running expensive electronics and appliance without ground, especially the type that have a metal enclosure on them, is not only risky for these devices, but also to your health since you can and will get shocked due to these devices adding a chassis ground (where the 0v is the metal chassis, as well as the V-, this is not to be confused with the actual ground, which is still needed to obtain this 0V... Else you get shocked.)

 

You could, potentially, ask your landlord to install at least one new socket with ground... but likely going to say no because they typically don't care. (None of your wall plugs have ground at all? Not even the fridge's? The washing machine? Microwave? Any of them?)

 

Before renting a new apartment, I've always been checking out the wall plugs, to make sure they all have ground that's actually connected, exactly because I have been in a similar situation to you before. Now you're in the secret as well. Always check.

[socialbeaver]

Thanks for your answers, moving out is not an option right now and this is just not a practical requirement for short term rentals in Thailand.

I did have a further look and found actually a few plugs in the kitchen that have 3 prongs, but they use European plugs on a wall plate that doesn't connect the ground this way so I disconnected the dishwasher because I was getting a jolt every time, I touched the metal door... I’ll have to double check if this is actually connected properly but now that I think of it, I didn’t get a jolt from the Fridge. 

Not wanting to speak ill of Thailand but the electric standards here are not great and even many hotels around here used to have the same problem. 

If you want have fun or a scare search for electrical pool in Thailand on your prefeed search engine. It’s also funny how you can see some stock pictures vs normal pictures on the streets. 

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Power Supplies

***

 

If you would be on ground floor, running cable to actual metal rod and stucking it to actual ground could be dirty solution. Just making clear that no one would accidentally touch it.

[akio123008]

42 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

stucking it to actual ground could be dirty solution. Just making clear that no one would accidentally touch it.

If it's really a proper ground you should be able to touch it safely.

 

It's quite difficult to do that though; most ground poles are driven very deep, preferably into groundwater as well.

 

Still, a crappy ground is better than no ground, and it may just discharge the case enough to stop you getting those annoying shocks. Therefore as long as you don't treat it as an actual safety ground, I approve of this idea

 

[LogicalDrm]

13 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

If it's really a proper ground you should be able to touch it safely.

 

It's quite difficult to do that though; most ground poles are driven very deep, preferably into groundwater as well.

 

Still, a crappy ground is better than no ground, and it may just discharge the case enough to stop you getting those annoying shocks. Therefore as long as you don't treat it as an actual safety ground, I approve of this idea

 

My other idea was to connect with lamppost or something along those lines.

[akio123008]

2 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

My other idea was to connect with lamppost or something along those lines.

That would in theory even allow for a wire through the air in case you're not on the ground floor. Not sure if others would appreciate that though.

[Guest]

On 2/15/2021 at 3:30 AM, socialbeaver said:

I get a bit of a "tingle sensation" and a hum when I run my finger on the case...

When I was a kid, the entire arcade at Celebrity Fun Center in Denver was ungrounded.  Which hurt like the dickens because it was adjacent to the swimming pool, so we would be running in there with wet feet and would get shocked every time we put our quarters in. 

You should be fine, but keep in mind that the built in surge suppression relies on there being a ground, so if you have lightning in your area, you're going to want to unplug everything during every storm.

 

[socialbeaver]

Ok some update here, confirmed that even the plug who looks like they shoud be grounded aren't... 

I guess this is just how it will be until I move out probably end of April. Won't be asking to re-do the electric for a short time rental.

 

Haven't had something die on me yet so that good.

 

Thanks again for all your feedback and input.

[Guest]

On 2/15/2021 at 3:30 AM, socialbeaver said:

Hello, 

 

I hope someone can help me out here as I'm no expert in electric wiring. 

I'm renting a place in Thailand and none of the plugs in the rooms have any ground, so not something I can really change unless I want to move out. Also there isn’t anything I could clamp on metal that is grounded, all the pipes are PVC and there is not heater  

 

But on some devices like my raspberry Pi in a metal case (great for passive cooling in the heat here) I get a bit of a "tingle sensation" and a hum when I run my finger on the case... 

Also, if I'm out of luck and touch certain part of my notebook I get a little feeling like a pinch sometimes... 

 

So, for certain a ground is missing here and I'm getting a little bit of a charge on my fingers. 

Is there something portable I could use or is getting an online UPS to “clean” up my current my best solution? 

 

Thanks 

Your power isn't dirty and the UPS isn't going to create an Earth ground.  The "tingle" is from the leakage current of the actual device, not your mains.  

[akio123008]

21 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

the UPS isn't going to create an Earth ground.

I think the reason the OP asked if a UPS would help (or at least, the way I suppose a UPS could help) is that the output of an online UPS could be galvanically isolated, meaning that if you touched the live wire there'd be no leakage current, because unlike the direct wall outlet, the UPS output voltage is floating and therefore not referenced to earth. So he'd be touching a "live" ish wire, but not live relative to the ground he's standing on, so no voltage would be across his body, no current would flow, and no shock would occur.

 

The same would apply for using an isolation transformer.

 

However, I'm not sure if an online UPS is normally galvanically isolated, I'm guessing there's a step down converter in there to charge the batteries, and those are usually isolated, so given it always runs on battery power, you'd expect it to be galvanically isolated. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

I think the reason the OP asked if a UPS would help (or at least, the way I suppose a UPS could help) is that the output of an online UPS could be galvanically isolated, meaning that if you touched the live wire there'd be no leakage current, because unlike the direct wall outlet, the UPS output voltage is floating and therefore not referenced to earth. So he'd be touching a "live" ish wire, but not live relative to the ground he's standing on, so no voltage would be across his body, no current would flow, and no shock would occur.

 

The same would apply for using an isolation transformer.

 

However, I'm not sure if an online UPS is normally galvanically isolated, I'm guessing there's a step down converter in there to charge the batteries, and those are usually isolated, so given it always runs on battery power, you'd expect it to be galvanically isolated. 

An online UPS may work.  But I doubt OP wants to buy a bunch of those. 

 

[akio123008]

5 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

An online UPS may work.  But I doubt OP wants to buy a bunch of those. 

I would say the same, but then also, the online UPS wasn't my idea:

 

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, socialbeaver said:

or is getting an online UPS to “clean” up my current my best solution? 

He didn't really get the reasoning right though.