10400f VS 3600

[_lucalink]

I am planning a new build and am trying to decide which of these CPU's to go for. I can get the R5 3600 with the stock cooler for £180 and a B450 Steel Legend ATX motherboard for £90 making the entire assembly of MoBo, Cooler and CPU £270 or I can get a 10400f for £130 with a ML120 V2 AIO for £36 and a B460 tomahawk for £115 making the whole thing £280. I would have to get an extra case fan if i went for the R5 Config so the prices would be identical. I will be primarily using the system for gaming and schoolwork, as well as some very occasional editing. For some extra context I will be most likely pairing with a RTX 3060Ti ( potentially a 3060 non TI ) and using either a 1080p 240hz or 1440p 144hz Display (I havent decided which to get yet) and will be Single player games like RDR2 and Witcher aswell as Multiplayer titles like Battlefront 2, CSGO, Cod, etc... It would be great to know which of these configurations you think would be better. 

 

 

[boggy77]

the 3600 is better than the 10400f.

[AndreiArgeanu]

R5 3600, you have XMP, higher all core boost clocks + the added ability to OC and possibly higher IPC.

[Princess Luna]

The video below has every bit of information on what benchmarks are concerned you could possible need:

Here's a few things for you to consider:

 

The stock cooler on the R5 3600 is by all means sufficient for it meaning you'd not have to buy an aftermarket cooler already improving on pricing ratio.

The R5 3600 seems to fair better than the i5 10400F on 1080p high refresh, e-sports games and alike.

The B450 motherboard has better upgrade path.

 

So if you pricing ends up near enough the same the winner here is the R5 3600.

[AndreiArgeanu]

1 minute ago, alatron978 said:

No it isn't.
 

Yes it is. Did you even bother to check the benchmarks. Also the 10400F only does 4ghz all core.

[WhitetailAni]

2 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

Yeah I checked the bench on average it is slower.

That is the same screenshot.
"average" requires at least 3 samples, not 1.

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, alatron978 said:

You can also average 2 results, you don't need 3 to have an average.

A 2-data-point average is less accurate. Let's say you have two points from extreme ends. The mean will be about in the middle, nowhere near either points.

If you have 3 points with 2 on one end and 1 on the other, the mean will be closer to the end with more data points.

If you're using median, then you end up with the same thing.

Mode fails unless you have 3 or more.

[Princess Luna]

3 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

That benchmark is pretty useless considering hwub's averaging methodology.

I sense some unnecessary bias in here. The reality is that the 10400 and 3600 are too close to one another to really matter, your own "better methodology" benchmarks shows a variance within 1%~2% meaning OP won't be gaining or losing significant performance regardless what they choose.

 

So we get back to the fact that if they are paying the same price, potentially cheaper with the Ryzen if they stick to stock cooler, there's the notion AMD is still a better pick thanks to not locking CPU/Memory overclocking and having a superior upgrade path (without mention actual better performance on other content creation applications should OP ever want those).

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, alatron978 said:

what matters is that the 10400F is faster then the 3600 in a gaming workload

It may be, but you're not looking at it from a value perspective.

Read this:

2 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

I sense some unnecessary bias in here. The reality is that the 10400 and 3600 are too close to one another to really matter, your own "better methodology" benchmarks shows a variance within 1%~2% meaning OP won't be gaining or losing significant performance regardless what they choose.

 

So we get back to the fact that if they are paying the same price, potentially cheaper with the Ryzen if they stick to stock cooler, there's the notion AMD is still a better pick thanks to not locking CPU/Memory overclocking and having a superior upgrade path (without mention actual better performance on other content creation applications should OP ever want those).

 

[boggy77]

this would be the ryzen system i'd recommend:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	£182.47 @ Ebuyer
Motherboard	ASRock B450 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard	£75.00 @ CCL Computers
Memory	Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory	£79.98 @ Aria PC
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	£337.45
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-01-22 14:51 GMT+0000

 

this would be the intel system i'd recommend:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor	£128.00 @ Amazon UK
CPU Cooler	be quiet! Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler	£22.95 @ Amazon UK
Motherboard	MSI MAG B460 TORPEDO ATX LGA1200 Motherboard	£93.25 @ CCL Computers
Memory	PNY Anarchy-X 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory	£59.86 @ CCL Computers
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	£304.06
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-01-22 14:52 GMT+0000

 

 

overall, you'd save £30 by going intel, having very similar performance.

[boggy77]

1 minute ago, alatron978 said:

10900K beats anything AMD offers and has rocketlake on the horizon.

it doesn't beat the 5000 series and you wouldn't put a 10900k in a b460 board anyway, whereas you can put a 5600x in that b450 without any issues.

[boggy77]

2 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

The 10900K does beat the 5000 series AMD chips.

not in a b460 board

[WhitetailAni]

3 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

The 10900K does beat the 5000 series AMD chips.

Is there any reason why you want Intel to win so badly?

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, alatron978 said:

If you have the same ram on the ryzen 5000 system it would.

B460 locks out RAM speed to 2933, remember?

[boggy77]

Just now, alatron978 said:

If you have the same mem settings on the ryzen 5000 system it would.

why would you, though?

 

and the techpowerup benches you keep pushing are made with single rank ram. it was shown amd benefits greatly by having 4 ranks in dual channel, and all benchmarks done with this type of memory beats the equivalent intel systems by a lot.

[Princess Luna]

12 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

Bench I showed had the 10400F 10% faster in a like for like scenario.

How many % would this one be:

It's not good to deal with absolutes, all in all the statement that the processors are on pair of one another stands.

 

12 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

They'd be paying less if they went for a cheaper b460 and didn't through a cooler in with the 3600. I see personally no reason to spend more money on something that is slower.

11 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

If they don't buy a cooler with the 10400F it would be cheaper. And the 10400F doesn't need a cooler, the stock one is not good but adequate.

To be fair everyone who has ever had an Intel Stock Cooler under operation knows that thing is as loud as it gets, it is clearly inferior to AMD's and it can get to really bothering levels. Also again with this "something that is slower" there's no objectively faster or slower answer in here.

 

12 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

Regarding cpu and mem oc yes that could easily put the 3600 10~20% above the 10400F, though I don't expect that most people would engage in these kinds of overclocking.

Having the alternative means you can at some point bother yourself to learn and do it, this options is simply not present on Intel which be as much team blue as possible you cannot deny how much a bummer that is.

12 minutes ago, alatron978 said:

The 3600 having a better upgrade path is also dependent on your workload, for gaming the 10400F for sure has a better upgrade path since the 10900K beats anything AMD offers and has rocketlake on the horizon.

Now this is the moment you kinda show your bias... the R5 5600X can be used on the Motherboard of choice by OP and that's a processor that does reach and sometimes even surpasses the i9 10900K already making your "beats anything AMD offers" claim false.

 

To add salt to injury, note you just advised OP to consider an i9 10900K, a 10 cores power house CPU, to be used on the "cheapest B460" you can buy. How's that a senseful upgrade path?

[Mister Woof]

20 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

I sense some unnecessary bias in here. The reality is that the 10400 and 3600 are too close to one another to really matter, your own "better methodology" benchmarks shows a variance within 1%~2% meaning OP won't be gaining or losing significant performance regardless what they choose.

 

So we get back to the fact that if they are paying the same price, potentially cheaper with the Ryzen if they stick to stock cooler, there's the notion AMD is still a better pick thanks to not locking CPU/Memory overclocking and having a superior upgrade path (without mention actual better performance on other content creation applications should OP ever want those).

I read an entire reddit thread about people raging over them not using geomean vs. averages, including HUB interactions, and basically everyone agreed the difference is not statistically meaningful in any way but that HUB would start using geomean instead of averages to appease the whiners, without labeling it as such to not confuse people since it doesn't really matter.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/kyoc08/todays_hardware_unboxed_video_and_how_to_spot_bad/

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, alatron978 said:

It certainly matters when you have games having 4 times the impact as other games.

It would matter if they didn't include any of the itemized results and only gave you the final average. The change from average to gemoean was 1% or less.

 

But, you are given that information specific to each game. If you skip to the end and only base your decision on that, without looking at the individual game you care about, that's your fault.

[Mister Woof]

 

You won't change my mind.

 

[Mister Woof]

We're splitting hairs here and derailing the intent of the thread by bitching about HUB's methodology which amounts to a whole lot of nothing.

 

OP: Gaming performance is about the same, with some games being better than others on one or another CPU

 

3600 Pros:

Professional tasks/non gaming tasks are better

PCIE4 w/B550 board

More upgrade choices

Doesn't need an aftermarket cooler

 

10400 Pros:

Gaming is just as good as the Ryzen

Costs less

Costs less now than it did 6 months ago

Doesn't need an aftermarket cooler

 

Whatever you get, it will be fine, and you likely won't really regret it. Even in the games that have large differences, the average framerate is already so high it doesn't really matter too much unless you're a 360hz gamer, in which case you're looking at the wrong CPUs anyway.

Regarding Civ6/Zen 3 - that doesn't matter here. We're comparing the 10400 to the 3600.

 

 

[freeagent]

Crazy. My 3600XT with stock cooler never hit 90 once. And it was boosting as it should. Case flow is very important.

 

I saved the 90c temps for when I got an AM4 mount for my cooler 

[Mister Woof]

1 hour ago, WikiForce said:

from what i know, ryzen CPUs do tend to run hot so it might require an aftermarket cooler. I have discord friend who's 3600 was hitting 90C+ with stock cooler and he had to buy a decent aftermarket cooler to gets temps under control

Don't have any personal experience with the Stealth (only the Spire and Prism which are good), but while 90 sounds ominous, if that's under some synthetic stress test that's not altogether unusual or concerning.

 

Intel's stock cooler isn't much better, but it still manages to handle the 10400.

 

Of course everything's relative. Put everything in a mini-itx with no airflow, yeah that might be more of an issue than say, in a big case.

 

It would affect both CPUs relatively the same.

[SavageNeo]

It is odd that people say that 10900k beats everything when it is proven that ryzen 5000 beats the 10900k at gaming.

 

 

I have seen some odd claims that are not true by @alatron978. He should get his facts straight before commenting on public subforums/threads.

I have built around 20-25 pcs in total. I always use the Ryzen stock cooler since it is better than Intel's cooler. from my experience anyway. 

[PrinnyExplodes]

The honest truth is performance is very similar for both. Go with whatever cpu+ram+mobo is cheaper and buy a better graphics card.

[LeapFrogMasterRace]

You guys are crazy a 10400f is the choice hands down unless you are doing compute stuff. The only games a 3600 is faster in are the ones that no one plays like total war. Heck it even beats it in Tomb Raider, GTAV, PUB G, Assasins Creed  battlefield ETC. This AMD ball licking needs to stop.