Am i the only one that thinks the new mac pro is a nice looking pc?

[jonnyyyl]

I think it is a great engineering feat.

Yes, it does remind you of a trash can. And yes, for the hardware you are getting, it is indeed very overpriced. Likewise, for a cheaper price, I can build better specs.  I will never think about getting one.

 

But there are several takeaways in which I think Apple has done quite well in:

1. Utilisation of space and non-existent cable management.

While standardization of form factors and I/O standards have created immense ease in PC building, these have made computer rigging in some ways a bit boring because we become very engaged in benchmark chasing. The whole thing is very compact, and doesn't leave a lot of free space, so space is highly utilized, leaving little behind. This approach leads to my next point.

 

2. Paving new ways

I loathe Apple products in the name of hardware quality and consumer benefits. I hate the cult culture that it is surrounded by. However, I have always respected it in the name of industrial design. 

 

For once, I do believe that a lot of thought have been put into the hardware design, and could potentially have very positive effects on the PC market in the future. The Mac Pro does leave quite a bit of imagination of what we are capable of. I can imagine/would like to see future improvements in:

- Motherboard manufacturing

I don't see a problem with having the main structural frame of the rig becoming a high performing integrated motherboard. If done right, we can solve the problem of cables. Imagine the frame having slots that directly take the PSU and HDD/SSD without any cables, all you do is just slot it in. Some PC chassis do this already. We aren't that far off in principle.

- PC cooling

Imagine a superior version of the Silverstone FT03/FT03mini. Huge/several 140mm ball bearing high performing fans at the top and bottom, with mesh filters. Airflow in itself in theory should be good. The core of the structure remains to be the heat sink, and takes all the heat from SLI/Crossover + CPU & etc. This whole thing can be a water cooler, with a radiator on top! How interesting that can be!! Likewise, the FT03 cases suggested that such steps can be taken. 

- Hardware upgrades

Like what we do, just replace RAM, CPU, Graphic card as one pleases. 

 

Cheers

[julekule]

I think it is a great engineering feat.

Yes, it does remind you of a trash can. And yes, for the hardware you are getting, it is indeed very overpriced. Likewise, for a cheaper price, I can build better specs.  I will never think about getting one.

 

But there are several takeaways in which I think Apple has done quite well in:

1. Utilisation of space and non-existent cable management.

While standardization of form factors and I/O standards have created immense ease in PC building, these have made computer rigging in some ways a bit boring because we become very engaged in benchmark chasing. The whole thing is very compact, and doesn't leave a lot of free space, so space is highly utilized, leaving little behind. This approach leads to my next point.

 

2. Paving new ways

I loathe Apple products in the name of hardware quality and consumer benefits. I hate the cult culture that it is surrounded by. However, I have always respected it in the name industrial design. 

 

For once, I do believe that a lot of thought have been put on the hardware design, and could potentially have very positive effects on the PC market in the future. I can imagine/would like to see improvements in:

- Motherboard manufacturing

I don't see a problem with having the main structural frame of the rig becoming a high performing integrated motherboard. If done right, we can solve the problem of cables. Imagine the frame having slots that directly take the PSU and HDD/SSD without any cables, all you do is just slot it in. Some PC chassis do this already. We aren't that far off in principle.

- PC cooling

Imagine a superior version of the Silverstone FT03/FT03mini. A huge/several 140mm ball bearing high performing fans at the top and bottom, with mesh filters. Airflow in itself in theory should be good. The core of the structure remains to be the heat sink, and takes all the heat from SLI/Crossover + CPU & etc. This whole thing can be a water cooler, with a radiator on top! How interesting that can be!! Likewise, the FT03 cases suggested that such steps can be taken. 

- Hardware upgrades

Like what we do, just replace RAM, CPU, Graphic card as one pleases. 

 

Cheers

"for the hardware you are getting, it is indeed very overpriced. Likewise, for a cheaper price, I can build better specs.  I will never think about getting one."

 

send me pcpartpicker link with better specs for a cheaper price

[Tmh85]

"for the hardware you are getting, it is indeed very overpriced. Likewise, for a cheaper price, I can build better specs.  I will never think about getting one."

 

send me pcpartpicker link with better specs for a cheaper price

Haven't there been like 8 people who have already made rigs better than Mac Pro with a lower price??

[Naty722]

I've only browsed the thread, but I'm a little irked that you seem so unconvinced that for the power, it's over priced, and it seems to be because you're caught up over the exact parts the Mac has, but that's why it is overpriced. Those unnecessary Firepros, ECC memory, and Xeon totally jack up the price for no performance benefit. Take a look at my current workstation (in signature, and here for your convenience):

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

 

CPU:  Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor  ($576.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler:  Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($62.99 @ Mwave) 

Motherboard:  Asus Rampage IV Gene Micro ATX LGA2011 Motherboard  ($278.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory:  Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($274.91 @ Amazon) 

Storage:  Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Disk  ($255.98 @ Newegg) 

Video Card:  EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card  ($508.99 @ Amazon) 

Case:  BitFenix Prodigy M Midnight MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($98.97 @ OutletPC) 

Power Supply:  Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($119.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $2177.81

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-18 14:33 EDT-0400)

 

I guarantee you this will outperform the base model in everything but very particular software. Heck, I think it will outperform up to the $4000 range. Everyone knows the i7s outperform the Xeons until you get into the very high end. Everyone knows workstation cards only offer benefits in 24 hour operation and very specific programs (and even that is becoming debatable). Again, ECC memory offers benefits to only a very high-end crowd. And to cap it all off, this machine is not even twice as big as the Mac pro, is practically silent, and is very cool. Add to that, I can have up to 7 drives in this, just off my motherboard, adding a second video card (even a workstation one to do what Linus did in his Video editing rig), or even a RAID card and I think the choice is clear.

 

Obviously, that's not the end of everything. Once you do get into the very high price range (like $7000+), it is very hard to compete with the Mac pro, and impossible at that form factor. But for 99% of people interested in a workstation, they don't need that.

 

Just hoping to add to the discussion 

[julekule]

Haven't there been like 8 people who have already made rigs better than Mac Pro with a lower price??

one guy was really close

[julekule]

 

I've only browsed the thread, but I'm a little irked that you seem so unconvinced that for the power, it's over priced, and it seems to be because you're caught up over the exact parts the Mac has, but that's why it is overpriced. Those unnecessary Firepros, ECC memory, and Xeon totally jack up the price for no performance benefit. Take a look at my current workstation (in signature, and here for your convenience):

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

 

CPU:  Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor  ($576.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler:  Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($62.99 @ Mwave) 

Motherboard:  Asus Rampage IV Gene Micro ATX LGA2011 Motherboard  ($278.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory:  Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($274.91 @ Amazon) 

Storage:  Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Disk  ($255.98 @ Newegg) 

Video Card:  EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card  ($508.99 @ Amazon) 

Case:  BitFenix Prodigy M Midnight MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($98.97 @ OutletPC) 

Power Supply:  Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($119.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $2177.81

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-18 14:33 EDT-0400)

 

I guarantee you this will outperform the base model in everything but very particular software. Heck, I think it will outperform up to the $4000 range. Everyone knows the i7s outperform the Xeons until you get into the very high end. Everyone knows workstation cards only offer benefits in 24 hour operation and very specific programs (and even that is becoming debatable). Again, ECC memory offers benefits to only a very high-end crowd. And to cap it all off, this machine is not even twice as big as the Mac pro, is practically silent, and is very cool. Add to that, I can have up to 7 drives in this, just off my motherboard, adding a second video card (even a workstation one to do what Linus did in his Video editing rig), or even a RAID card and I think the choice is clear.

 

Obviously, that's not the end of everything. Once you do get into the very high price range (like $7000+), it is very hard to compete with the Mac pro, and impossible at that form factor. But for 99% of people interested in a workstation, they don't need that.

 

Just hoping to add to the discussion 

 

"Those unnecessary Firepros, ECC memory, and Xeon totally jack up the price for no performance benefit."

they dont give a huge preformace boost. but reliability comes before price with systems like this. people that are buying this machin needs xeon ecc memory and firepro cards. and i see yours got none of this. so it is not better then the mac pro

[Naty722]

"Those unnecessary Firepros, ECC memory, and Xeon totally jack up the price for no performance benefit."

they dont give a huge preformace boost. but reliability comes before price with systems like this. people that are buying this machin needs xeon ecc memory and firepro cards. and i see yours got none of this. so it is not better then the mac pro

 

As I clearly said, " for 99% of people interested in a workstation, they don't need that"  I'm sorry but it's true. People that are buying this machine DO NOT need xeon, ecc memory, and firepro cards. It's like you didn't read my post at all. Consumer grade components have more than enough reliability for most people. If you rephrased your statement as a computer with a xeon, ecc memory, and workstation graphics, then maybe you would be right. But your audacious claim that build I posted "is not better than the mac pro" is utterly false. You're criteria for better was incredibly broad, so that means we need to consider the broadest audience. Mine (and everyone else's) builds addressed that. The Mac Pro does not (even though it advertises itself as a computer that does). I'm sorry, but you're arguments (or lack thereof) just don't hold up. 

[alpenwasser]

Before everyone starts getting their panties in a twist about

"X is better than Y", please consider that under almost all

circumstances, it will very much depend on the criteria being

applied.

Just sayin'.

[julekule]

As I clearly said, " for 99% of people interested in a workstation, they don't need that"  I'm sorry but it's true. People that are buying this machine DO NOT need xeon, ecc memory, and firepro cards. It's like you didn't read my post at all. Consumer grade components have more than enough reliability for most people. If you rephrased your statement as a computer with a xeon, ecc memory, and workstation graphics, then maybe you would be right. But your audacious claim that build I posted "is not better than the mac pro" is utterly false. You're criteria for better was incredibly broad, so that means we need to consider the broadest audience. Mine (and everyone else's) builds addressed that. The Mac Pro does not (even though it advertises itself as a computer that does). I'm sorry, but you're arguments (or lack thereof) just don't hold up. 

 "People that are buying this machine DO NOT need xeon, ecc memory, and firepro cards."

 

Then Why the hell are they buying it

 

and do you think the mac pro is over priced (considering the hardware it has).

[Tmh85]

 "People that are buying this machine DO NOT need xeon, ecc memory, and firepro cards."

 

Then Why the hell are they buying it

Because they think that they need it.. but they really don't

[Peter Vaughan Truslow]

has anyone made an acrylic case for the mac pro? it would probably look absolutely gorgeous with a clear case

[Lil Chillbil]

Because they think that they need it.. but they really don't

 

i'm gonna play devils advocate here and point at pixar purchasing a few of these. 

[JamGorby]

[JamGorby]

"Those unnecessary Firepros, ECC memory, and Xeon totally jack up the price for no performance benefit."

they dont give a huge preformace boost. but reliability comes before price with systems like this. people that are buying this machin needs xeon ecc memory and firepro cards. and i see yours got none of this. so it is not better then the mac pro

Explain how ECC memory and Firepro cards are more "reliable" than standard memory and consumer desktop graphics. The number 1 reason for failure of most electronic devices is faulty, aged, or otherwise failed capacitors. Are these devices somehow made to function without these things? People continue to equivocate ECC or extra compute precision with reliability. They are not the same thing. 

But, I suppose you need those sort of apologetics when you just blew $3k on a product that offers no real world benefits to justify itself. 

[AlwaysFSX]

what would you have externaly on a mac pro

Just gonna throw this out there.... Every single thing you need that isn't inside the new Mac Pro, is outside. EVERYTHING. That's from a mouse, keyboard, printer, cd drives, extra storage for working on projects. Do you know how much space external drives take up when you need terabytes of space? You'll have a stack as large as the POS Mac Pro.

 

Work station parts: Do you know just how reliable consumer grade components are? The only difference between them and workstation components is that workstation parts are made to last longer in extreme heat because they're usually set up in environment with thousands of heat emitting components around them. I can leave a 780 Ti pinned for weeks on end and it'll still be fine because it's built well for one and it has excellent cooling compared to a Quadro or Tesla card. The only thing I can agree on is ECC memory but even that's a stretch. Working on a video in Premier and you have a bit of corrupted memory blocks? Whoopie you just have a pixel that's off color a bit.

 

Next thing I'm going to complain to you about is your love for workstation cards. Do you know how utterly f*cking useless they are? A GTX 780 Ti can perform as well as a four thousand dollar workstation card. Don't believe me? Here. Want to know the difference between the two? As I stated above, workstation cards are tested much harder because they're put in shitty environments such as render farms. Throw a few 780 Ti's in a system with half decent cooling and the card will last you forever.

 

Software?

 

You state "i cant name any windows exclusive editing or 3d rendering software."

 

Nobody sane uses the default shitware on OSX. Nobody. A lot of major companies use AutoCAD, Adobe products, and Vegas. You know what those are also on? Windows. A platform that has as much if not more support for the developing community than Apple does. Hell you can even use Linux to do this work if you really wanted to and you don't even pay a dime. OSX is not a superior platform for workstations because it does not have the tools to support heavy use developers.

 

Next thing I want to complain about is what happens when something goes wrong? You fry a component in that Mac Pro you have to send the ENTIRE system back to Apple to repair or replace it costing you valuable time and money. GPU dies in any ordinary pc? Just take it out, keep going, and replace it. You save time and money in the long run.

 

Also, the thing is absolutely ugly and you cannot justify to me why someone should buy one of these.

[Hirad123]

I like dat PCB color

[AlwaysFSX]

I like dat PCB color

Everything should be in black... At least not green..

[JamGorby]

People don't buy Apple products because they are good. People buy them because they are "cool". 

Also, ECC memory has overhead and can be slower than standard memory. 

[Snickerzz]

what if i think both are sexy as fuck? ;-;

[Dim]

I think it has a good form factor for the stuff it can fit inside. That said, it's custom-made to fit specific components, so not a lot of room for improvement.

Further to the point, the cheapest Mac Pro can be built for 1/2 - 3/5 of the price with identical components, unfortunately. So yes, I do think it is overpriced.

[Infinityfq]

Apple's hardware is quite amazing actually and if you can afford it, you certainly won't be disappointed with it.

[Snickerzz]

I think it has a good form factor for the stuff it can fit inside. That said, it's custom-made to fit specific components, so not a lot of room for improvement.

Further to the point, the cheapest Mac Pro can be built for 1/2 - 3/5 of the price with identical components, unfortunately. So yes, I do think it is overpriced.

is that your do in your avatar? hes adorable

[Dim]

A GTX 780 Ti can perform as well as a four thousand dollar workstation card.

 

This is also something to take into consideration and not incorrect, either. The FirePro D300s are, if I recall correctly, cherry-picked 260X cards focusing on life span with slightly different firmware and up-marked 400% in price.

 

Dual 780 Ti's will smash dual D300s in any configuration, in any program, in any setup, for roughly the same price as Apple's factor in.

 

You can build an equivalently performing PC in Australia for around $1500. The Mac Pro here costs $4000. Apple makes a lot of profit on these computers, make no mistake. But if you have more money than you know what to do with, might as well, right?

[Priller]

is that your do in your avatar? hes adorable

 

^This

 

Looks like a GSD and a Huskie.

[Dim]

is that your do in your avatar? hes adorable

 

Lol nah just a random picture I found on the internet and edited the website into