Am i the only one that thinks the new mac pro is a nice looking pc?

[Snickerzz]

Lol nah just a random picture I found on the internet and edited the website into

aw :c

[MajorChipHazard]

I don't particularly like the look of it from the outside.

 

But holy crap, the inside is a freaking feat of engineering in it's own!

When I first heard about it and saw pictures, there wasn't really any scale to the pictures, So I never got a chance to see just how freaking small it is!

 

It's TINY!

That much power packed into that little can is amazing.

[julekule]

Explain how ECC memory and Firepro cards are more "reliable" than standard memory and consumer desktop graphics. The number 1 reason for failure of most electronic devices is faulty, aged, or otherwise failed capacitors. Are these devices somehow made to function without these things? People continue to equivocate ECC or extra compute precision with reliability. They are not the same thing. 

But, I suppose you need those sort of apologetics when you just blew $3k on a product that offers no real world benefits to justify itself. 

they exist for a reason. a reason you cant see.

[julekule]

I think it has a good form factor for the stuff it can fit inside. That said, it's custom-made to fit specific components, so not a lot of room for improvement.

Further to the point, the cheapest Mac Pro can be built for 1/2 - 3/5 of the price with identical components, unfortunately. So yes, I do think it is overpriced.

then show me a pcpratpicker list with identical componets for 1/2- 3/5 of the price

[GeTecknics]

i like the way it looks i wish my sli setup was this small

[julekule]

Just gonna throw this out there.... Every single thing you need that isn't inside the new Mac Pro, is outside. EVERYTHING. That's from a mouse, keyboard, printer, cd drives, extra storage for working on projects. Do you know how much space external drives take up when you need terabytes of space? You'll have a stack as large as the POS Mac Pro.

 

Work station parts: Do you know just how reliable consumer grade components are? The only difference between them and workstation components is that workstation parts are made to last longer in extreme heat because they're usually set up in environment with thousands of heat emitting components around them. I can leave a 780 Ti pinned for weeks on end and it'll still be fine because it's built well for one and it has excellent cooling compared to a Quadro or Tesla card. The only thing I can agree on is ECC memory but even that's a stretch. Working on a video in Premier and you have a bit of corrupted memory blocks? Whoopie you just have a pixel that's off color a bit.

 

Next thing I'm going to complain to you about is your love for workstation cards. Do you know how utterly f*cking useless they are? A GTX 780 Ti can perform as well as a four thousand dollar workstation card. Don't believe me? Here. Want to know the difference between the two? As I stated above, workstation cards are tested much harder because they're put in shitty environments such as render farms. Throw a few 780 Ti's in a system with half decent cooling and the card will last you forever.

 

Software?

 

You state "i cant name any windows exclusive editing or 3d rendering software."

 

Nobody sane uses the default shitware on OSX. Nobody. A lot of major companies use AutoCAD, Adobe products, and Vegas. You know what those are also on? Windows. A platform that has as much if not more support for the developing community than Apple does. Hell you can even use Linux to do this work if you really wanted to and you don't even pay a dime. OSX is not a superior platform for workstations because it does not have the tools to support heavy use developers.

 

Next thing I want to complain about is what happens when something goes wrong? You fry a component in that Mac Pro you have to send the ENTIRE system back to Apple to repair or replace it costing you valuable time and money. GPU dies in any ordinary pc? Just take it out, keep going, and replace it. You save time and money in the long run.

 

Also, the thing is absolutely ugly and you cannot justify to me why someone should buy one of these.

so you are expecting every one that has a workstation to know how to change the gpu?

and workstaion grade gpus have 10bit color depth

[JamGorby]

they exist for a reason. a reason you cant see.

A thought terminating cliche that addresses nothing. A reason I can't see? Am I supposed to have faith that Mac's are more reliable because there's certainly no empirical evidence to back that claim up. Gee, Apple apologists are so much like the religious. 

[julekule]

A thought terminating cliche that addresses nothing. A reason I can't see? Am I supposed to have faith that Mac's are more reliable because there's certainly no empirical evidence to back that claim up. Gee, Apple apologists are so much like the religious. 

i  am not defending apple. 

I am saying that workstations exist for a reason

[JamGorby]

i  am not defending apple. 

I am saying that workstations exist for a reason

So you assumed that I "can't see" the reason for the existence of workstations. I'm a gamer so of course I see the reason for their existence. I own the products that are the end result of them. I would assume that devs in the workstation market would look at this new Mac pro, have a chuckle about how cute it is, and then go buy a "serious" machine. Apple's not really marketing it as a workstation. Like all things they sale, they'll market it as "the experience!!!!!"

It works for them, though. Millions of people will buy it because they like to be told what is cool instead of finding out for themselves what is cool. I gotta give Apple props for figuring out a way to get people to pay crazy prices for things that either aren't worth the money or they don't need. The new Mac falls into the category of "shit you don't need".

Edited March 19, 2014 by alpenwasser
language

[julekule]

So you assumed that I "can't see" the reason for the existence of workstations. I'm a gamer so of course I see the reason for their existence. I own the products that are the end result of them. I would assume that devs in the workstation market would look at this new Mac pro, have a chuckle about how cute it is, and then go buy a "serious" machine. Apple's not really marketing it as a workstation. Like all things they sale, they'll market it as "the experience!!!!!"

It works for them, though. Millions of people will buy it because they like to be told what is cool instead of finding out for themselves what is cool. I gotta give Apple props for figuring out a way to get people to pay crazy prices for things that either aren't worth the money or they don't need. The new Mac falls into the category of "shit you don't need".

but it is like that with most products. you get told by someone it is good and you buy it. what do you mean about a serious machine? Edited March 19, 2014 by alpenwasser
quote of language

[JamGorby]

but it is like that with most products. you get told by someone it is good and you buy it. what do you mean about a serious machine?

Surely the equivalent performance of what is basically two r9 270x's in crossfire isn't enough power to develop next gen 3d graphics.

 

• Dual AMD FirePro™ D300 graphics processors with 2GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
  • 1280 stream processors
  • 256-bit-wide memory bus
  • 160GB/s memory bandwidth
  • 2 teraflops performance

    R9 270X (previously the R7870 GHz / Pitcairn)

    • Stream Processors 1280
    • Clock Frequency up-to 1.05 GHz
    • 2.69 TFLOPS compute performance
    • 2 or 4 GB memory at 5.6 Gbps

      If you look at the numbers, a single Titan black would perform better and would be cheaper without the headaches of Crossfire. 

[julekule]

 

Surely the equivalent performance of what is basically two r9 270x's in crossfire isn't enough power to develop next gen 3d graphics.

 

• Dual AMD FirePro™ D300 graphics processors with 2GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
  • 1280 stream processors
  • 256-bit-wide memory bus
  • 160GB/s memory bandwidth
  • 2 teraflops performance

    R9 270X (previously the R7870 GHz / Pitcairn)

    • Stream Processors 1280
    • Clock Frequency up-to 1.05 GHz
    • 2.69 TFLOPS compute performance
    • 2 or 4 GB memory at 5.6 Gbps

      If you look at the numbers, a single Titan black would perform better and would be cheaper without the headaches of Crossfire. 

 

but apple still has to buy form amd at a higher price then with gaming cards.

 

and workstation grade gpus. have better drivers optimized for cad use. workstaion grade gpus also has 10bit color depth

 

if you look at dell and lenovos workstations you only get a singel k4000 or a singel w7000 for that price

[ShadowCaptain]

some of you are forgetting some people WANT to use OSX, and for them it is the only option, that said I think its a great option anyway

 

the ability to easily connect in seconds 3 x 4k 60hz (or 6 1440p!!!)  displays and up to 36 thunderbolt devices at crazy fast speeds is unparalleled by any other desktop, especially one that is only 9" tall and very quiet with great thermals

 

for somebody who seriously wants to work, the mac pro is great, easy connectivity, fast and reliable too

 

Sure you pay a a premium above an equivalently SELF built spec, but not many boutique computers would be this powerful this small or this price. Compare boutique build gaming pcs against self built, you always pay more for quality and warranty

 

Apple's support is worth the difference in price IMO

 

EDIT- as i have said countless times and will always believe, price to performance is not always the most important factor, sometimes specific features can be worth thousands of dollars to somebody who needs them, like the ability to purchase the machine and connect 6 1440p displays off the shelf - that is worth LOTS of money to some people, the receptionist could go into store, buy the Mac pro and 6 displays, plug them in and be  up and running with no IT support

[julekule]

some of you are forgetting some people WANT to use OSX, and for them it is the only option, that said I think its a great option anyway

 

the ability to easily connect in seconds 3 x 4k 60hz (or 6 1440p!!!)  displays and up to 36 thunderbolt devices at crazy fast speeds is unparalleled by any other desktop, especially one that is only 9" tall and very quiet with great thermals

 

for somebody who seriously wants to work, the mac pro is great, easy connectivity, fast and reliable too

 

Sure you pay a a premium above an equivalently SELF built spec, but not many boutique computers would be this powerful this small or this price. Compare boutique build gaming pcs against self built, you always pay more for quality and warranty

 

Apple's support is worth the difference in price IMO

just adding on that some people want or need to use osx. for many of them hackintosh is not an option

[Dim]

then show me a pcpratpicker list with identical componets for 1/2- 3/5 of the price

 

When I say "identical components", I mean same-or-better-performing. Some of their components are made purely to fit in this form factor, and so are "Apple only". As the Mac Pro is $4,000 in Australia, that would make my budget $2,400. Further, PC Part Picker doesn't have all components. But this build will beat each individual piece of hardware out of the park.

 

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/3cBaf

 

With $400 to spare, the machine above will best the lowest end Mac Pro in almost any performance demanding situation. 

 

Obviously if I wasn't constrained by PC Part Picker's products, I would have a much easier time of matching components.

 

No, it doesn't have all those little things that make up the other $2000 in cost. I'm not saying it does. I'm not saying my computer has thunderbolt, or a number of other things. What I'm saying is that I don't believe those little things are worth $2000. There are, obviously, situations in which a consumer might need those components and is happy to shell out double the cost for those little things, that is their choice. But in terms of actual performance, the requirements can be met at half the price.

[julekule]

When I say "identical components", I mean same-or-better-performing. Some of their components are made purely to fit in this form factor, and so are "Apple only". As the Mac Pro is $4,000 in Australia, that would make my budget $2,400. Further, PC Part Picker doesn't have all components. But this build will beat each individual piece of hardware out of the park.

 

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/3cBaf

 

With $400 to spare, the machine above will best the lowest end Mac Pro in almost any performance demanding situation. 

 

Obviously if I wasn't constrained by PC Part Picker's products, I would have a much easier time of matching components.

 

No, it doesn't have all those little things that make up the other $2000 in cost. I'm not saying it does. I'm not saying my computer has thunderbolt, or a number of other things. What I'm saying is that I don't believe those little things are worth $2000. There are, obviously, situations in which a consumer might need those components and is happy to shell out double the cost for those little things, that is their choice. But in terms of actual performance, the requirements can be met at half the price.

see you didnt use identical components

 

and the 780 dosent have 10bit color depth

[JamGorby]

They WANT to use it. No one NEEDS to use it. There is nothing OSX does that's special. One can make an argument that a particular software exclusive to a platform is a reason but that's still personal preference considering that an equivalent always exists. 

As for the argument about optimized drivers, being that the d300 is really a re-branded w7000 that  in turn is a re-purposed R9 270x I think you have to reach really far to explain these numbers. 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-6.html

I don't think drivers are gonna make up for their anemic performance. Optimization only gets you so far. 

[ShadowCaptain]

They WANT to use it. No one NEEDS to use it. There is nothing OSX does that's special. One can make an argument that a particular software exclusive to a platform is a reason but that's still personal preference considering that an equivalent always exists. 

As for the argument about optimized drivers, being that the d300 is really a re-branded w7000 that  in turn is a re-purposed R9 270x I think you have to reach really far to explain these numbers. 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-6.html

I don't think drivers are gonna make up for their anemic performance. Optimization only gets you so far. 

 

yet in 3d modelling apps they get BLOWN away - it depends on the workload 

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-12.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-13.html

 

Quadro k5000 97.2fps, GTX titan, 22.25

 

EDIT I just want to add that some of you are undervaluing ECC for certain applications that are mission critical, downtime/damaged projects cost companies money

[Dim]

see you didnt use identical components

 

and the 780 dosent have 10bit color depth

 

You didn't read my post. Read it again.

That comes under the "little things" that make it twice the price.

PC Part Picker doesn't have any workstation cards for me.

 

If you really need a 10-bit color graphics card, then that means you have a 10-bit color monitor. In which case, the cost of the Mac Pro is negligible. At no time did I say there wasn't a USE for it, but the uses are limited.

[julekule]

They WANT to use it. No one NEEDS to use it. There is nothing OSX does that's special. One can make an argument that a particular software exclusive to a platform is a reason but that's still personal preference considering that an equivalent always exists. 

As for the argument about optimized drivers, being that the d300 is really a re-branded w7000 that  in turn is a re-purposed R9 270x I think you have to reach really far to explain these numbers. 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-6.html

I don't think drivers are gonna make up for their anemic performance. Optimization only gets you so far. 

look at soildworks

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-9.html

[julekule]

You didn't read my post. Read it again.

That comes under the "little things" that make it twice the price.

PC Part Picker doesn't have any workstation cards for me.

 

If you really need a 10-bit color graphics card, then that means you have a 10-bit color monitor. In which case, the cost of the Mac Pro is negligible. At no time did I say there wasn't a USE for it, but the uses are limited.

i read your post. but in your first post you sad identical 

[flibberdipper]

I do kinda like it.

[alpenwasser]

i read your post. but in your first post you sad identical

Identical being defined within the context as:

When I say "identical components", I mean same-or-better-performing.

 

[julekule]

This is also something to take into consideration and not incorrect, either. The FirePro D300s are, if I recall correctly, cherry-picked 260X cards focusing on life span with slightly different firmware and up-marked 400% in price.

 

Dual 780 Ti's will smash dual D300s in any configuration, in any program, in any setup, for roughly the same price as Apple's factor in.

 

You can build an equivalently performing PC in Australia for around $1500. The Mac Pro here costs $4000. Apple makes a lot of profit on these computers, make no mistake. But if you have more money than you know what to do with, might as well, right?

"in any configuration, in any program, in any setup"

so explain this(d300 are w7000 with 2gb of mem)  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-13.html

[julekule]

Identical being defined within the context as:

 

that dosnt make any sens?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/identical