Intel Core I7 Extreme "Haswell-E" 5000 for Q2

[wpirobotbuilder]

I think they should kill the quad core i7 on the enthusiast platform and move the product approach around.

start off with 6 core and move up to 12 core on the enthusiast platform while retaining the quad core xeon.

Isn't the low-end Haswell-E CPU going to be a 6-core?

[beebskadoo]

Isn't the low-end Haswell-E CPU going to be a 6-core?

if it is than awesome!

[Fred Castellum]

I think they should kill the quad core i7 on the enthusiast platform and move the product approach around.

start off with 6 core and move up to 12 core on the enthusiast platform while retaining the quad core xeon.

The day we hit 24 cores(if ever) we'll look back and be like "dang we used single and dual cores.... then quad cores... it must have been slow back then... 

[That Norwegian Guy]

Isn't the low-end Haswell-E CPU going to be a 6-core?

 

Yep, 6 replaces 4 and 8 replaces 6, compared to Ivy and Sandy.

[TheProfosist]

Well, the last time around, first came the Haswell, then the Ivy-E. And both were named 4000 series despite one being the true next gen architecture (Haswell) while the other one (Ivy-E) was 

an extreme/enthusiast/workstation version of the previous architecture. 

Haswell (4770K) - June 2013

Ivy Bridge-E (4960X) -  September 2013

But after checking some release date, I see that the opposite has happened before. In the last generation first came the "not so true" next gen processor the 3960X (Sandy-E) then they released the 3770K (Ivy Bridge). So basically the 3000 series started with the old technology. 

Sandy-E (3960X) - November 2011

Ivy Bridge (3770K) - April 2012

The release dates were reversed then, and now they reversed it again. So this time around, the new 5000 series of processors starts with the old technology (Haswell-E).

Yes sandy e took a while and got stuff of kilter which only intel knows why. X79 was also rumored to have a lot more things built in that never mad it to release sadly, some of them intel even showed off at one point or another.

I think they should kill the quad core i7 on the enthusiast platform and move the product approach around.

start off with 6 core and move up to 12 core on the enthusiast platform while retaining the quad core xeon.

I completely disagree but many disagree with me when I say that a 4820K is a better choice than a 4770K.

Isn't the low-end Haswell-E CPU going to be a 6-core?

That will likely be the case but thats just rumors a intel slide has yet to leak with that info.

The day we hit 24 cores(if ever) we'll look back and be like "dang we used single and dual cores.... then quad cores... it must have been slow back then...

We already have just that they are all very weak and unless in a highly multithreaded.

Yep, 6 replaces 4 and 8 replaces 6, compared to Ivy and Sandy.

Hopefully thatll get more people over to the extreme platform as I dont see the consume line going beyond 4 cpre for some time yet.

[deathjester]

This way they can sell them to gamers before low level API's hit and 4770's are overkill and these are super omega overkill?

 

Only thing I can think of. Makes no sense from a competitive standpoint with AMD. 

 

Think we are all going to be having rendering competitions soon instead of fps comparisons in games. Next Gen consoles are 1.6-1.7ghz MOBILE (absolutely suck clock for clock) AMD chips. These things suck. Almost all games are made with those silly things as a baseline and when computers get low level API's what isn't going to be overkill? I mean hell we had Oxide demoing 3x the draw calls of a console on Mantle with an 8350 at 2ghz. The Haswell-E looks awesome for everything not gaming, but gaming? Shoot. If I had a Sandy Bridge I5/I7 I would just be laughing right now as far as gaming. DDR4 hasn't even released latency yet. 2 video cards from the next 2 series might be enough for 4 k which isn't even affordable or even GOOD on displays yet and we have oculus rift which is gonna be 1080p? As a gamer if I had a Sandybridge K? I would yawn, just like I have yawned at everything since 2011.

 

Rendering, server? Yeah exciting. Gaming? Meh. Maybe if consoles die off, but then they are just gonna make games for most of the steam machines so we will be limited to what an I3/I5 could do for years?

 

 

 

[TheProfosist]

This way they can sell them to gamers before low level API's hit and 4770's are overkill and these are super omega overkill?

 

Only thing I can think of. Makes no sense from a competitive standpoint with AMD. 

 

Think we are all going to be having rendering competitions soon instead of fps comparisons in games. Next Gen consoles are 1.6-1.7ghz MOBILE (absolutely suck clock for clock) AMD chips. These things suck. Almost all games are made with those silly things as a baseline and when computers get low level API's what isn't going to be overkill? I mean hell we had Oxide demoing 3x the draw calls of a console on Mantle with an 8350 at 2ghz. The Haswell-E looks awesome for everything not gaming, but gaming? Shoot. If I had a Sandy Bridge I5/I7 I would just be laughing right now as far as gaming. DDR4 hasn't even released latency yet. 2 video cards from the next 2 series might be enough for 4 k which isn't even affordable or even GOOD on displays yet and we have oculus rift which is gonna be 1080p? As a gamer if I had a Sandybridge K? I would yawn, just like I have yawned at everything since 2011.

 

Rendering, server? Yeah exciting. Gaming? Meh. Maybe if consoles die off, but then they are just gonna make games for most of the steam machines so we will be limited to what an I3/I5 could do for years?

-snip-

You do realize that enthusiasts and power users have different and likely more uses for a PC than gamers right? They may also play games on the machine but that is not likely the only thing or possibly main thing that is taken into consideration when building the PC. Also many on this site are younger and only use their PC for gaming thing is the more time your on your PC the more you poke around and possibly learn things. You may even find a hobby, side project, or job that comes out of this. Its not that a 4670K cant do that stuff but a 4930K is far more capable due it par to the platform it fits in. This is also why I try to sway many people on this forum who plan to build with a 4770K over to a 4820K on the higher end platform. In my eyes its money better spent especially for those who havnt had a couple computer and know what they want to plan to do with it besides gaming. Also if all your doing is gaming and you know that a 4670K is plenty fine, so save your money.

The 4670K and 4770K and aimed mainly at those who are just gamer that may want to do a bit of OCing. This likely wont change as time goes on but you have to remember that those are the high end of the main stream line. The 4770K is actually overkill in most cases as the extra threads dont get used in many if not most mainstream applications and games. This likly wont change any time soon either for the same reason programs still arnt 64bit even though we have had that ability across the board since the P4 era. Companies and coders deem it not necessary especially since good parts of the programs and in some cases the whole program has to be redone.

[TheProfosist]

This way they can sell them to gamers before low level API's hit and 4770's are overkill and these are super omega overkill?

 

Only thing I can think of. Makes no sense from a competitive standpoint with AMD. 

 

Think we are all going to be having rendering competitions soon instead of fps comparisons in games. Next Gen consoles are 1.6-1.7ghz MOBILE (absolutely suck clock for clock) AMD chips. These things suck. Almost all games are made with those silly things as a baseline and when computers get low level API's what isn't going to be overkill? I mean hell we had Oxide demoing 3x the draw calls of a console on Mantle with an 8350 at 2ghz. The Haswell-E looks awesome for everything not gaming, but gaming? Shoot. If I had a Sandy Bridge I5/I7 I would just be laughing right now as far as gaming. DDR4 hasn't even released latency yet. 2 video cards from the next 2 series might be enough for 4 k which isn't even affordable or even GOOD on displays yet and we have oculus rift which is gonna be 1080p? As a gamer if I had a Sandybridge K? I would yawn, just like I have yawned at everything since 2011.

 

Rendering, server? Yeah exciting. Gaming? Meh. Maybe if consoles die off, but then they are just gonna make games for most of the steam machines so we will be limited to what an I3/I5 could do for years?

-snip-

Ill agree that a sandy bridge is perfectly fine for gaming, heck a the C2Q's are just finally becoming not enough, but that shouldnt surprise you. CPU + Motherboard should last you 3-5+ years unless your one of those people that feel the need to upgrade when new tech comes out or always need to have new more powerful PC.

What I was trying to say though is that the main reason most people pick a 4770K + Z87 over a 4820K + X79 is that theyre are basically right next to each other in processing power. The Z87/Z77/Z69 platform is generally cheaper and more well known in the gamer and first time builder audience. If you also throw in the face that a 4820K is one gen behind in architecture most people write it off immediately. A 6 core Haswell-E offering will likely make that platform more appealing when the mainstream architecture still only has 4 cores. Now if you add in the fact it it will be going up against a revised haswell it will make it look even more appealing.

[Faa]

Whats Intel HEDT? If the 8core would be 500$, definitely getting it but I'm most likely turning some cores off.

[deathjester]

Ill agree that a sandy bridge is perfectly fine for gaming, heck a the C2Q's are just finally becoming not enough, but that shouldnt surprise you. CPU + Motherboard should last you 3-5+ years unless your one of those people that feel the need to upgrade when new tech comes out or always need to have new more powerful PC.

What I was trying to say though is that the main reason most people pick a 4770K + Z87 over a 4820K + X79 is that theyre are basically right next to each other in processing power. The Z87/Z77/Z69 platform is generally cheaper and more well known in the gamer and first time builder audience. If you also throw in the face that a 4820K is one gen behind in architecture most people write it off immediately. A 6 core Haswell-E offering will likely make that platform more appealing when the mainstream architecture still only has 4 cores. Now if you add in the fact it it will be going up against a revised haswell it will make it look even more appealing.

 

Let me fix that for you. Look at combo prices. Now look at the fact that all z87 overclock the same.

 

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

 

Enthusiast is a fancy way of saying PC gamers. There are Xeon's to do other things and they slaughter these series aimed at gamers.

 

You want to waste your money on that motherboard for a 4C 8 thread chip? You go right ahead. I sure hope you are running more then two video cards though. It isn't "generally cheaper", it is a lot cheaper.  Add to that? My I7 is a whole 2 fps faster in a game like BF4 (supposedly 8 thread) when I turn hyperthreading off. The I7 allows me to stream. As you said it is overkill and that is BEFORE low level optimization hits OpenGL/DirectX 12.

 

People are not screwing up going with the 4770k or the 4670k. They are putting it in the GPU or buying an additional one, because that is the smart thing to do. I don't know anyone that "writes off a six core" or 2011. We write off the absurd cost for gaming and we even tell people not to bother with the I7 for gaming. Oculus rift interests me. Awkwardly putting 3 monitors together in a surround with the edge of the monitor breaking the illusion does not. Oculus Rift will be 1080p and this? Looks like way more fun then three monitors with a silly amount of GPU's, even though it is on the dev kit and low resolution. He has a single GTX card and it is not a 780ti. 2 would prob be overkill at 1080p. Add to that we have a new Nvidia series coming. 4k? The monitors aren't even good yet. When Oculus rift hits? Will they even matter? 300 bucks for this? That is as cheap as a gaming monitor and cheaper then a  27 inch ips. If people want to buy a 4k monitor instead of Rift? More power to them. Three monitors? Go for it. I will be rocking this thing and you don't need 3-4 cards for it.

 

[TheProfosist]

Let me fix that for you. Look at combo prices. Now look at the fact that all z87 overclock the same.

 

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

 

Enthusiast is a fancy way of saying PC gamers. There are Xeon's to do other things and they slaughter these series aimed at gamers.

 

You want to waste your money on that motherboard for a 4C 8 thread chip? You go right ahead. I sure hope you are running more then two video cards though. It isn't "generally cheaper", it is a lot cheaper.  Add to that? My I7 is a whole 2 fps faster in a game like BF4 (supposedly 8 thread) when I turn hyperthreading off. The I7 allows me to stream. As you said it is overkill and that is BEFORE low level optimization hits OpenGL/DirectX 12.

 

People are not screwing up going with the 4770k or the 4670k. They are putting it in the GPU or buying an additional one, because that is the smart thing to do. I don't know anyone that "writes off a six core" or 2011. We write off the absurd cost for gaming and we even tell people not to bother with the I7 for gaming. Oculus rift interests me. Awkwardly putting 3 monitors together in a surround with the edge of the monitor breaking the illusion does not. Oculus Rift will be 1080p and this? Looks like way more fun then three monitors with a silly amount of GPU's, even though it is on the dev kit and low resolution. He has a single GTX card and it is not a 780ti. 2 would prob be overkill at 1080p. Add to that we have a new Nvidia series coming. 4k? The monitors aren't even good yet. When Oculus rift hits? Will they even matter? 300 bucks for this? That is as cheap as a gaming monitor and cheaper then a  27 inch ips. If people want to buy a 4k monitor instead of Rift? More power to them. Three monitors? Go for it. I will be rocking this thing and you don't need 3-4 cards for it.

 

-snip-

Did you read my previous post that was right above that one at all? I have nothing against the 4670K or 4770K, they have their place in the market. And no enthusiast is not necessarily saying PC gamers, there are pleanty of PC gamers that buy a pre built rig or have someone else do it for them. The large majority might be but ill guarantee that they do other hefty things with their PC besides just playing PC games. Also in my case im more into the hardware than the games and there are many like me. Linus mentioned this in one of his video's as thats how he is as well. Also I do believe i mentioned power users if not they should be in there as well.

What you and some others need to realize is that PC's and PC hardware does not exist solely for the purpose of gaming. And that people do indeed use it for more than that. I do believe one of my previous posts describes how this can happened and happened in my and a couple friends cases.

EDIT:

Heres something else. I may use my PC mainly for other things but why would i build a second powerful PC just for gaming when I can just throw a more powerful or second GPU in there?

The system you describe in my opinion is perfectly fine for those who basically use their PC to browse the web and game. Heck as I said before you can use it for more advanced stuff as well. It really comes down to your budget in the end what i wrote about the 4770K and 4820K is more about people who have the budget for a 4770K build generally have the budget for a 4820K build as it not much more.

EDIT 2:

All Z87 do not OC the same, though you should be able to get decent stable OC with a lower end board just as you do with a high end board. But go and find the cheapest board you can and im willing to bet you youll get a higher OC on one that costs 3-4x as much, especially when you throw some high end water cooling at it or even some more extreme methods. Also how many people really buy a 4770K a $300+ cpu and pair it with a ~$100 cpu?

Also I do know about microcenter deals and have taken advantage of on for my ITX build but not everyone has one of those around, especially since this is a international forum. The closest one to me is over 2 hours away, I just happened to be there while the same was still running.

This may surprise you but the PCI-E slots can be used for things other than video cards and many of these thing can take up as much or more bandwidth than a GPU.

You can make comparable systems with quite close pricing between a 4770K+Z87 and 4820K+X79. This has been discussed this in multiple threads and there are always people like you and other who think like me which is fine, thats how it always is with any topic. i would just like to get my thoughts and reasoning out there that are based on my experiences that extend outside of gaming.

This bit here is confusing to me so youll have to go into more depth "My I7 is a whole 2 fps faster in a game like BF4 (supposedly 8 thread) when I turn hyperthreading off. The I7 allows me to stream." When hyperthreading came back in the 1366 era people use to turn it off to get lower temp to be able to OC more. They would sometimes get better FPS in games as well as game back then were what one maybe two cores generally.

The oculus is something completely different from gaming on a PC monitor. Due to that it wont be for everyone. Also I actually have multiple monitors but I still only game on one as I prefer that experience. I dont want to have to look to see stuff on a different monitor while gaming. I also dont want to deal with the hefty increase of GPU power needed for the little bit of extra stuff shown which many times its pretty empty. There is also the who incompatibility thing and it being treated as one big monitor while on the desktop.

[deathjester]

Did you read my previous post that was right above that one at all? I have nothing against the 4670K or 4770K, they have their place in the market. And no enthusiast is not necessarily saying PC gamers, there are pleanty of PC gamers that buy a pre built rig or have someone else do it for them. The large majority might be but ill guarantee that they do other hefty things with their PC besides just playing PC games. Also in my case im more into the hardware than the games and there are many like me. Linus mentioned this in one of his video's as thats how he is as well. Also I do believe i mentioned power users if not they should be in there as well.

What you and some others need to realize is that PC's and PC hardware does not exist solely for the purpose of gaming. And that people do indeed use it for more than that. I do believe one of my previous posts describes how this can happened and happened in my and a couple friends cases.

EDIT:

Heres something else. I may use my PC mainly for other things but why would i build a second powerful PC just for gaming when I can just throw a more powerful or second GPU in there?

The system you describe in my opinion is perfectly fine for those who basically use their PC to browse the web and game. Heck as I said before you can use it for more advanced stuff as well. It really comes down to your budget in the end what i wrote about the 4770K and 4820K is more about people who have the budget for a 4770K build generally have the budget for a 4820K build as it not much more.

EDIT 2:

All Z87 do not OC the same, though you should be able to get decent stable OC with a lower end board just as you do with a high end board. But go and find the cheapest board you can and im willing to bet you youll get a higher OC on one that costs 3-4x as much, especially when you throw some high end water cooling at it or even some more extreme methods. Also how many people really buy a 4770K a $300+ cpu and pair it with a ~$100 cpu?

Also I do know about microcenter deals and have taken advantage of on for my ITX build but not everyone has one of those around, especially since this is a international forum. The closest one to me is over 2 hours away, I just happened to be there while the same was still running.

This may surprise you but the PCI-E slots can be used for things other than video cards and many of these thing can take up as much or more bandwidth than a GPU.

You can make comparable systems with quite close pricing between a 4770K+Z87 and 4820K+X79. This has been discussed this in multiple threads and there are always people like you and other who think like me which is fine, thats how it always is with any topic. i would just like to get my thoughts and reasoning out there that are based on my experiences that extend outside of gaming.

This bit here is confusing to me so youll have to go into more depth "My I7 is a whole 2 fps faster in a game like BF4 (supposedly 8 thread) when I turn hyperthreading off. The I7 allows me to stream." When hyperthreading came back in the 1366 era people use to turn it off to get lower temp to be able to OC more. They would sometimes get better FPS in games as well as game back then were what one maybe two cores generally.

The oculus is something completely different from gaming on a PC monitor. Due to that it wont be for everyone. Also I actually have multiple monitors but I still only game on one as I prefer that experience. I dont want to have to look to see stuff on a different monitor while gaming. I also dont want to deal with the hefty increase of GPU power needed for the little bit of extra stuff shown which many times its pretty empty. There is also the who incompatibility thing and it being treated as one big monitor while on the desktop.

 

False. Z87 is unique. Board really doesn't matter. I have pretty much the cheapest MSI board you can get. I can do 4.7 on water. I have done 4.7 gaming on air several times. There are people with the most expensive Asus boards on the motherboard/cpu forum who can barely break 4.0 at 1.3v

 

Can you lose the silicon lottery more on Haswell then 2011? Yup. Does board matter? Not really. Network? Marketing silliness, even the budget network chips are good. Sound. Can matter depending on the sound setup you have. 

 

Power phases? Nah. Not unless you are in an overclocking contest or pushing something you would never run 24/7 anyways. I could care less about non 24/7 overclocks. Those are a fantasy, not a gaming computer.

 

Put my chip in a friends top of the line Asus that can only do 4.2 on water. Did the same clock. Take a wild guess what his CPU did on mine. 

 

The HT was slower thing? That was due to core parking. Win 8.1 fixed it, you can fix it yourself on Win 7. It put cores to sleep and put them to sleep out of order. Skipping over the cores could cause the I7 to be slower then an I5. It should have never happened.

 

Which is another reason people see pseudo gains on Win 8.1 in gaming outside of BF4. That game? Actually did run faster on my 8.1 trial. Everything else? Slightly slower or same.

 

GD-45 is the max board you need if going SLI. Anything past that is a complete waste of money other than aesthetics. They are on sale for like 130 bucks atm at newegg. Non SLI? You can go even cheaper. 

 

Again. The prices are not close.You could argue that it is worth 200-300 more to get a more assured OC. But meh. I see noticeable gains in one game to be honest (Guild Wars 2). Anything past 4 on Haswell is fast enough and it is gonna be better with optimization soon anyways. I haven't seen one do under 4.2ghz (and these are mainly the cheap asus sli and cheap msi z87), but I would be pretty bummed if I had one get stuck at 4.0.

 

I can kind of agree that you should maybe go 2011 if you are buying a PREMIUM board (looks) on z87. Then again? I see no reason to go over a GD-45 on Haswell. If others value looks more? More power to them. Maybe they are better off getting 4820k?

 

So you are right there. If you are going to spend like 200 plus on a motherboard? Just go 2011. Otherwise you are just throwing money away. 

[That Norwegian Guy]

Hopefully thatll get more people over to the extreme platform as I dont see the consume line going beyond 4 cpre for some time yet.

 

Unlikely, extreme editions' price ranges are out of the range 95% of gamers would want to pay for a computer. However, not saying it is impossible. Depends on the motherboard ecosystem and the DDR4 prices.

 

That said, I fully expect Intel to still do 4 cores on Broad to test what they can still get away with, but may bring 6 cores to Skylake consumer side if it doesn't sell well which I am positive it won't. The majority of the market are very aware of wanting more cores these days, AMD recognized that (at least their marketing division did) and already capitalized once before.

[Pitou]

Maybe they are afraid that Amd might be coming out with something that would blow the current gen of intel cpus out the water. Wouldn't be the craziest assumption Since Amd has been making a lot of moves like the r7/9 series and mantle

[thewhitestig]

I completely disagree but many disagree with me when I say that a 4820K is a better choice than a 4770K.

 

Does the more PCI lanes really make a difference in multi GPU configurations? If it does, then yes the 4820K has an edge being on the more powerful platform. But honestly, I don't think 8x,8x vs 16x,16 has any performance benefit. haven't looked at any benchmarks though. Other than that, there is no reason to settle for a weaker CPU with a higher price for the CPU itself + higher motherboard prices. 

[TheProfosist]

Unlikely, extreme editions' price ranges are out of the range 95% of gamers would want to pay for a computer. However, not saying it is impossible. Depends on the motherboard ecosystem and the DDR4 prices.

 

That said, I fully expect Intel to still do 4 cores on Broad to test what they can still get away with, but may bring 6 cores to Skylake consumer side if it doesn't sell well which I am positive it won't. The majority of the market are very aware of wanting more cores these days, AMD recognized that (at least their marketing division did) and already capitalized once before.

I was saying that in relation to those that have the budget to get a 4770K. They can likely work X99 with "5820K" in and will have far more reason to do so than they do currently with the 4820K. this does pertain that that there is a "5820K" at the ~$325 price point.

Maybe they are afraid that Amd might be coming out with something that would blow the current gen of intel cpus out the water. Wouldn't be the craziest assumption Since Amd has been making a lot of moves like the r7/9 series and mantle

That is quite unlikely but hey anything can happen!

Does the more PCI lanes really make a difference in multi GPU configurations? If it does, then yes the 4820K has an edge being on the more powerful platform. But honestly, I don't think 8x,8x vs 16x,16 has any performance benefit. haven't looked at any benchmarks though. Other than that, there is no reason to settle for a weaker CPU with a higher price for the CPU itself + higher motherboard prices.

More than two yes or what if you have other card that use PCI-E. Comparing them OC to OC the about equal the 4820K could even come out on top especially if you get a bad 4770K. But like I said has been discussed a bunch before if you want to discuss that more head over to one of those threads.

[deathjester]

Does the more PCI lanes really make a difference in multi GPU configurations? If it does, then yes the 4820K has an edge being on the more powerful platform. But honestly, I don't think 8x,8x vs 16x,16 has any performance benefit. haven't looked at any benchmarks though. Other than that, there is no reason to settle for a weaker CPU with a higher price for the CPU itself + higher motherboard prices. 

 

If going 3-4 GPU's and multi monitor screens you should go 2011. If you are buying like a 250 dollar MB on z87? You are throwing money away imo. Go 2011. On this me and Profosist are in complete agreement. 

 

If the most you are gonna go is 2 good video cards? Save the money and go with something like a Z87  GD-45. It has all you could ask for from a gaming motherboard

 

Also the 2011 chips are weaker clock for clock but they have solder under the lid and overclock on average MUCH higher. There are people who have gotten stuck at 4 ghz on Haswell. That isn't happening on 2011. Add to that when you are talking about the 6 core? It is a stronger chip to begin with. Not that you need one for gaming, but 6c 12t is a beast, and 8c 16t will be even more of a beast. 

 

I got lucky on my Haswell. Other people are constantly getting stuck at 4.2-4.3. Hell between 4.2-4.3 might be the average to be honest.  To sum it up? You should not be going buckwild on board and enthusiast parts on z87 over 2011. Those expensive boards offer prettier heatsinks and you can get screwed on Haswell OC on any z87 board. Hell I wouldn't even buy a dual rad water cooler for a 4770k unless I knew I had a GOOD chip. What is the point of going from 4.1 to 4.2 on some chips? It just isn't worth it. Why bother with the cost. 

[Dylan522p]

Probably because Broadwell got pushed back and they want to meet their expected earnings shareholders have put onto the,