ATX Systems, do they make sense?

[CCap]

As technologies progress, individual components get smaller and smaller. Especially in the recent years, this has taken note in the Desktop PC market with mATX boards becoming rather popular, as well as mITX becoming a real thing. (Who knew)

 

The point of this discussion is to debate weather or not ATX systems make sense anymore (per the title). Do they? 

 

Here are a few of my thoughts:

 

• If you time out your upgrades and only buy what you need to effectively accomplish your day-to-day tasks, theoretically speaking you should never have to use more than 2-way SLI. If this is the case, then why would you ever need an ATX board?
• Portability. In todays market, you are able to get a 375mm long case (≈14 inches) that can properly encase dual GTX Titan Blacks, a 4960x, and 32GB of Dominator Platinums. What more could you want? Exactly. There isn't anything more you could possibly want to put into a system and you would be doing it in a mATX system. What reasons would you have to go with an ATX system that is twice the size and twice as weak?

What are some of your arguments? I'm intrigued to see what you all have to say.

[SAV1OUR]

both have their benefits all it comes down to is what you like more  

[SAV1OUR]

Because finding a nice mATX case is impossible...

pfft bullshit prodigy 350d and more  

[Str_Mape]

If you want lots of graphics and a crapload of storage,

Show me a nice matx case for dual GPU, 5+ HDD's + 1-2 SSD's and water cooling.

[Cacao]

For a simple system mATX is pretty good, but if you wanna get into more fancy stuff like water cooling or simply run 2 cards + raid card, sound card, PCI SSD etc. you'll need lots of space.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Able to fit more radiators for cooling, 3 way and large GPUs in SLI/Crossfire, more space for stuff. 

 

ATX is sort of pointless for the average user and maybe entry level gamers, but for people who want ultimate systems and very high end, ATX and above is really still the best option. 

[MrTomnus]

In samller cases cable management can be more difficult, and some people like their builds to look as tidy as possible (me) While having a smaller, more portable case is quite appealing, good airflow can also be an issue in a smaller case, and size constraints can sometimes be a problem. Also mITX cases and motherboards seem to be stupidly expensive compared to larger parts of the same quality.

 

I was thinking my next build would be mITX when I get round to it - it would be nice to move it around the house more easily.

[Vitalius]

I only need 1 reason.

Simple, future usage. I like tinkering. I intend to use my future components for other things that they are better suited to. A great example is that my old gaming PC is now my NAS. RAID cards and NIC cards would be preferred for a NAS, obviously.

 

After I upgrade my NAS (next week or two), it's being moved to a pfSense machine (which means NIC cards and WiFi cards, potentially).

 

After that, it's being moved to a secondary gaming PC. For that, I might want to 2-way Crossfire with some cheap 6870's or something (since I already own one).

In other words, the point of ATX is future potential. I'd rather have the option to do something later, than lack it. And if the audio ever goes out on a board, I'm going to need an Audio card. If the NIC goes out, I'll need a NIC. Bam, 2 Slots taken out. It's for future security as well.

If I had to say other reasons, water cooling firstly. You can water cool an m-ITX case, but God help you get that looking sexy. Plus, I like the open space of ATX. It gives me more room to work, and air flow, and freedom to experiment with visual design (mid-plates as an example).

It gives freedom. I hate tying myself down. I don't move much, so portability is something I don't need. Though it would be nice, I won't sacrifice Freedom to do whatever I want with a build for it.

[Paralectic]

Give me a normal affordable mATX case which supports 2x120MM rads, enough hard drives, long GPUs and a good airflow etc etc.

[CCap]

If you want lots of graphics and a crapload of storage,

Show me a nice matx case for dual GPU, 5+ HDD's + 1-2 SSD's and water cooling.

 

 

Has support for 7 5.25" bays that can be replaced with HDD Mounts like this one. You can fit a triple rad on top and a single rad in the rear. You have ample room to set down a pump and to mount a Res. What more could an enthusiast want with their system? Tiny, very cool (no pun intended), and packs a major punch.

 

This is applicable to almost everybody's argument thus far. 

[mr moose]

Um, I assume you are talking about motherboard size and not the merits of the ATX standard so: Full ATX boards serve a purpose for some, while others only need something as big a mATX.  It's just horses for courses.

[JoshM]

I went ATX as AMD doesn't make decent MATX boards (AM3+). They both have there good and bad points, a smaller case would be nice for my desk but it's not required.  

[CCap]

It gives freedom. I hate tying myself down. 

Try telling that to your wife when you get older... :lol:

 

 

In other words, the point of ATX is future potential. I'd rather have the option to do something later, than lack it. And if the audio ever goes out on a board, I'm going to need an Audio card. If the NIC goes out, I'll need a NIC. Bam, 2 Slots taken out. It's for future security as well.

Eh, you have a pretty good argument here, but ATX vs mATX will always be a hung jury so-to-speak. People will always use ATX for their own reasons, but quite frankly for about 90% of users that I see building a PC in the "New builds and Planning" subforum, an mATX system would fit their needs perfectly. The only people that are excluded from mATX usage are people that need a lot of PCI-e cards and those that feel the need to use way more radiators than they reasonably need.

[CCap]

I was totally going to buy that case until I saw the price tag...

To be fair, you get what you pay for. 

[Str_Mape]

To be fair, you get what you pay for. 

To be fair NZXT H440, much cheaper, fits my bill completely.

[Lyons]

ATX is pointless for most people, I regret not doing an mATX or even mITX build, it's just PCI slots not being used....
 

Because finding a nice mATX case is impossible...

 
I could probably list at least 10 good mATX cases that are readily available, maybe even 15...

[Vitalius]

Try telling that to your wife when you get older... :lol:

Eh, you have a pretty good argument here, but ATX vs mATX will always be a hung jury so-to-speak. People will always use ATX for their own reasons, but quite frankly for about 90% of users that I see building a PC in the "New builds and Planning" subforum, an mATX system would fit their needs perfectly. The only people that are excluded from mATX usage are people that need a lot of PCI-e cards and those that feel the need to use way more radiators than they reasonably need.

 I question whether I will ever get married. 

Their *current* needs. Again, the future changes things. 

I don't know about the radiator thing. You need one rad space + one * [sources of heat to be cooled] to have decent overhead in cooling. 

If you go with what you said (dual Titans, 4960X, 32GB of RAM), you would want water cooling to keep things reasonable. That's 1 + 1 * 3 (4 if you cool the RAM, which in this instance, I would) for a total of 480mm (or 600mm) of rad space minimum. 

I could see you fitting 480mm into an mATX case, but 600mm might be a stretch. Then you have to consider actually routing all that. 

It creates more work than benefits imo. I get portability. I lose ease of internal case management, future functionality, limited Drive space, and future security (i.e. the audio and NIC considerations). It's not cheaper. I don't see a point in that at all.

Just because it's "good enough" doesn't mean it's worth it imo.

[paulsterio]

At the end of the day, it's just going to depend on what you want and need. So the question doesn't really make sense. Of course ATX systems make sense, they offer more expandability and let's be real, they're not that much bigger than mATX. I think mITX is still quite a niche area because it's just really for people who want small. 

 

Unlike laptops, where there is a general trend towards being small and light for portability, desktop users, unless they LAN a lot or something, rarely move their systems around and space isn't really at a premium because most people just put their towers next to their desks or under their desks and not in their bags. So there is no real push for miniaturization on the desktop in the way that there is with laptops. 

 

Like for me, my desktop just sits on my desk in the corner and it's pretty out of the way, sure something like a 900D would look ridiculous and I wouldn't be able to have it there, but like the difference between a 750D and a 350D? I honestly couldn't care less, a smaller case just doesn't appeal to me in any particular way. On the other hand, I want a small and light laptop that I can carry around. 

 

At the end of the day, there's no reason to go small unless you have a need to. Sure you might not use any of your expansion slots when you have an ATX board, but so what? It's not like ATX boards are much more expensive than mATX or something. On top of that, you're getting the option to expand, so why not take it if size is not important. 

[Lyons]

Well, I need a new case and the only nice one IMO that I can find is the arc mini r2 so please tell.

 

Fractal Arc mini R2

Fractal Define Mini

Corsair 350D

Bitfenix Phenom M

Bitfenix Colossus M

Nanoxia Deep Silence 4

Aerocool Dead Silence Cube

Lian Li PC-V600F

Lian Li PC-A04B

Silverstone TJ08-E

Silverstone FT03

Silverstone SG10

Rosewill Legacy U3-B

[TheGamingBarrel]

Guys,remember about cooling, full ATX should have better cooling

[TheProfosist]

For a gaming rig you dont but something used more like a worstation there just isnt enough slots.

[Guest]

I've got an mATX board and it's big enough; 1 beefy GPU, 1 NIC/wireless card, 1 RAID card

[dizmo]

As technologies progress, individual components get smaller and smaller. Especially in the recent years, this has taken note in the Desktop PC market with mATX boards becoming rather popular, as well as mITX becoming a real thing. (Who knew)

 

The point of this discussion is to debate weather or not ATX systems make sense anymore (per the title). Do they? 

 

Here are a few of my thoughts:

 

• If you time out your upgrades and only buy what you need to effectively accomplish your day-to-day tasks, theoretically speaking you should never have to use more than 2-way SLI. If this is the case, then why would you ever need an ATX board?
• Portability. In todays market, you are able to get a 375mm long case (≈14 inches) that can properly encase dual GTX Titan Blacks, a 4960x, and 32GB of Dominator Platinums. What more could you want? Exactly. There isn't anything more you could possibly want to put into a system and you would be doing it in a mATX system. What reasons would you have to go with an ATX system that is twice the size and twice as weak?

What are some of your arguments? I'm intrigued to see what you all have to say.

I think the 2 way SLI thing is a good point, unless you're trying to push say 3 1440p monitors, or you want to spend money to say "OMG LOOK WHAT I HAVE!" Let's face it there are a few of those people around.

 

One thing to consider is the future, as others have said. Specifically PCI-e SSD storage. If you had 2 cards, and 2 PCI-e SSD's, you're going to need a 6 slot rear panel. That just doesn't happen with an mATX case (and really, why would it). I need 5, and I am extremely limited when it comes to case selection.

 

I don't think portability is a very good argument. Not many people are going to carry their computer from place to place.

 

Video editing. Intense systems like that require a board that can support 64gb of RAM, and mATX boards simply can't accommodate that. There's also all of the extra ports you'll get with a full size ATX board (Firewire, Thunderbolt, etc etc.) Those can't really be found on an mATX board. In fact, there are only maybe 3 mATX boards that have more than 6 USB ports. An issue for most? Nope. An issue for some, including me? Yes.

You can't add an expansion card, because the slots are taken up by other items.

Usb hub? Sure. Very unappealing option though.

 

I look at it like this. If I want a small case, to sit on top of a desk, mATX is perfect. But I want it to be small. So it loses full expandability.

If I was getting a case and sitting it on the floor, what do I care what size it is? I'd actually rather it were larger, I tend to use them as a footrest.

It gets better cooling (more space), expansion possibilities, tons of ports, etc.

 

I love small cases. Next build is going to be mATX. m-ITX is far too restrictive. I'm not surprised it's popular, but I'd only ever use it for a LAN system, or something that sits in the living room.

 

Also mITX cases and motherboards seem to be stupidly expensive compared to larger parts of the same quality.

 

 

Really? I find they're very well priced. Similar boards in ATX are usually $100+ more.

 

 

Has support for 7 5.25" bays that can be replaced with HDD Mounts like this one. You can fit a triple rad on top and a single rad in the rear. You have ample room to set down a pump and to mount a Res. What more could an enthusiast want with their system? Tiny, very cool (no pun intended), and packs a major punch.

 

This is applicable to almost everybody's argument thus far. 

Caselabs S5?

Easily one of the sexiest mATX cases I could find.

 

ATX is pointless for most people, I regret not doing an mATX or even mITX build, it's just PCI slots not being used....

 

I could probably list at least 10 good mATX cases that are readily available, maybe even 15...

Some people love the huge case for aesthetically reasons. Makes them think they've really purchased something worthwhile.

I can only think of maybe 3 good mATX cases that offer a decent amount of expansion.

m-ITX...is...way too restrictive. Unless it's a LAN build or you only use it for gaming. Then I can see it making sense, as long as it can fit a decent sized video card.

[TheDigitalRealm]

There aren't many mATX cases that offer water cooling as well as space for masses of HDDs and such. The mATX market is simply smaller at the moment, and consequently that means a smaller choice of Motherboards etc. I agree with you, but there needs to be more manufacturer support, especially on the Motherboard side, for mATX. At the moment people like ASUS release an order of magnitude more ATX boards than mATX boards.

For me, personally...I prefer ATX. I find a larger ATX case is much more fun and less finicky to build in, and can result in a clean build with less effort put in (in my experience)

[Lyons]

Some people love the huge case for aesthetically reasons. Makes them think they've really purchased something worthwhile.

I can only think of maybe 3 good mATX cases that offer a decent amount of expansion.

m-ITX...is...way too restrictive. Unless it's a LAN build or you only use it for gaming. Then I can see it making sense, as long as it can fit a decent sized video card.

 

The majority of people only use a single GPU set up, and soundcards are now obsolete (USB DAC's are a thing too, which tend to be better anyway). The only other thing you could use in a PCI slot is a wifi card, but those are sparsely used, as a re RAID cards. A single GPU takes up 2 or 3 slots maximum, and you still have 3 or so left over, so even mATX can be a waste in some cases. IMO mATX is fine for the majority of builders.