Is Pcie 3.0 x16 too slow for the next High end GPU's?

[BTGbullseye]

Just now, Mister Woof said:

i really want to upgrade for a card that has competent Ray Tracing, and so I can finally retired my son's RX 570 by shifting down GPUs.

Well, that is looking to be a standard feature in GPUs from now on.

[Mister Woof]

Just now, BTGbullseye said:

Well, that is looking to be a standard feature in GPUs from now on.

if i can get 2080ti-like performance and ray tracing that won't bottleneck a 6/12 chip on PCIE3, for under $700, i'll do it. My son will appreciate the hand-me down.

[BTGbullseye]

Just now, Mister Woof said:

if i can get 2080ti-like performance and ray tracing that won't bottleneck a 6/12 chip on PCIE3, for under $700, i'll do it. My son will appreciate the hand-me down.

Dunno about that pricing... AMD's gonna be punching Nvidia down a bunch for pricing to performance, but not sure just how much. The 3080 is rumored to be $800, so if AMD hits back with similar performance, it could be at that pricepoint.

[Mateyyy]

21 hours ago, igormp said:

Even a 2080ti is far from saturating a 3.0 16x link, it barely does so with a 8x one. 3090 would need to be more than twice as powerful as the 2080ti for something like that to happen.

Yeah honestly I don't get why apparently so many people are certain that 4.0 will be imperative to get the most out of this new generation of GPUs.

It's a shame HUB didn't manage to include FS2020 in their 3.0 vs 4.0 scaling video you linked above, I was genuinely really curious to see that tested, since it's such a memory intensive game. That's one game where I'd imagine that 4.0 could potentially make a difference with faster than current-gen GPUs, but I also don't see the vast majority of titles being similarly memory heavy.

 

1 hour ago, BTGbullseye said:

It's likely that the 3090 will have the highest performance of all of the bunch, but it's also likely that the flagship AMD will be close, (closer than the 3080 by a large margin) and less expensive.

I'd ask whether you've actually got a source on that, but then I asked myself "what even is a source now that's not the actual manufacturer" when the cool thing nowadays is to spit out random "RuMoUrS" and "LeAkS" on the internet - I'm referring to various YouTube channels centered around this premise, not you necessarily. 

[igormp]

3 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

but it's also likely that the flagship AMD will be close, (closer than the 3080 by a large margin) and less expensive.

Ha, I really doubt so. My guess it that in a best case scenario AMD will match a current 2080ti with their top of the line. They haven't been targeting the high-end a couple generations from now.

[MadPistol]

Nobody really knows the answer to this, but my magic 8 ball says "It'll be just fine".

[BTGbullseye]

3 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

I'd ask whether you've actually got a source on that, but then I asked myself "what even is a source now that's not the actual manufacturer" when the cool thing nowadays is to spit out random "RuMoUrS" and "LeAkS" on the internet - I'm referring to various YouTube channels centered around this premise, not you necessarily. 

 

1 hour ago, igormp said:

Ha, I really doubt so. My guess it that in a best case scenario AMD will match a current 2080ti with their top of the line. They haven't been targeting the high-end a couple generations from now.

Considering all the leaks for the Big Navi show it being 15-30% more powerful than a 2080TI, which is similar to what the rumors are for the 3090, and AMD has a history of undercutting Nvidia with their GPUs, I don't know why you're both thinking about this the way you are or saying that you doubt me. Doubt the leaks/rumors, that's all I'm presenting to you.

[Mateyyy]

8 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Considering all the leaks for the Big Navi show it being 15-30% more powerful than a 2080TI, which is similar to what the rumors are for the 3090, and AMD has a history of undercutting Nvidia with their GPUs, I don't know why you're both thinking about this the way you are or saying that you doubt me. Doubt the leaks/rumors, that's all I'm presenting to you.

Well I haven't personally seen any of those leaks.

 

AMD hasn't been undercutting Nvidia when it comes to the high-end market since 2013, when Hawaii vs Kepler was a legitimate competition. That's why I'm skeptical that they'd suddenly have such a massive uplift from one generation to the other, considering AMD still hasn't got a consumer grade GPU out to the public that matches even the 1080Ti which released over three years ago, or the newer 2070 Super.

Now Nvidia's going from 12nm TSMC to either 7nm TSMC or 8nm Samsung, again, according to rumours/leaks, while AMD is on the same 7nm TSMC Navi was on to my knowledge.

 

I'm not doubting you personally, I'm doubting the rumours/leaks. Didn't I already say this?

[BTGbullseye]

5 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

considering AMD still hasn't got a consumer grade GPU out to the public that matches even the 1080Ti which released over three years ago, or the newer 2070 Super.

The 5700XT with an overclock, or a 50th Anniversary version definitely match those for performance, and that's at $50 less MSRP, or $100-$150 less average prices.

5 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

I'm not doubting you personally, I'm doubting the rumours/leaks. Didn't I already say this?

Your previous post's wording made it seem as if it was the opposite, that you trusted the leaks, but distrusted my retelling of them.

[Mateyyy]

8 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

The 5700XT with an overclock, or a 50th Anniversary version definitely match those for performance, and that's at $50 less MSRP, or $100-$150 less average prices.

By the time you get a 5700XT to match a 2070S for performance you'd be looking at way higher power consumption figures though.

8 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Your previous post's wording made it seem as if it was the opposite, that you trusted the leaks, but distrusted my retelling of them.

That's exactly the opposite of what I intended to say. Might've been bad wording on my part.

[BTGbullseye]

1 minute ago, Mateyyy said:

By the time you get a 5700XT to match a 2070S for performance you'd be looking at way higher power consumption figures though.

I have yet to come across anyone outside of enterprise use situations where higher power consumption is a real-world issue to discuss, apart from extreme budget/low end. (which is somewhere you won't find this card for at least several years)

4 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

That's exactly the opposite of what I intended to say. Might've been bad wording on my part.

Yeah, thanks for clarifying.

[Mateyyy]

3 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

I have yet to come across anyone outside of enterprise use situations where higher power consumption is a real-world issue to discuss, apart from extreme budget/low end. (which is somewhere you won't find this card for at least several years)

Fair enough, though waste heat is still a potential issue.

Regardless, near-2070S performance at $100+ less is a great thing to have, hence why I recommended the 5700XT to several people on this forum myself. I'm hoping AMD can go even higher than xx70 level with RDNA2.

[BTGbullseye]

1 minute ago, Mateyyy said:

Fair enough, though waste heat is still a potential issue.

Regardless, near-2070S performance at $100+ less is a great thing to have, hence why I recommended the 5700XT to several people on this forum myself. I'm hoping AMD can go even higher than xx70 level with RDNA2.

Everything is pointing to them getting performance of 15-30% higher than a 2080TI for their flagship, so I expect it. Hopefully that's not just a testing fluke or golden chip scenario though.

[Nathanpete]

8 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

Now Nvidia's going from 12nm TSMC to either 7nm TSMC or 8nm Samsung, again, according to rumours/leaks, while AMD is on the same 7nm TSMC Navi was on to my knowledge.

Nvidia is making all of their soon to be announced geforce cards on samsung 8nm. Nvidia still has a limited capacity at TSMC, and we can expect to see 7nm tsmc in quadros and/or a future refresh. Oh and maybe in datacenter GPUs. 

Big Navi is on N7+, which is an improved 7nm. (I was gonna say enhanced, but then I remember at Hot Chips 2020 Microsoft said the XBSX SoC is built on the N7E node, where the E means enhanced)

There are far fewer leaks on Big Navi (or as Lisa Su is calling it: Navi 2x, bc the top GPU, the 6900XT,  is supposed to double the performance of the 5700XT. That does put the 6900XT significantly above the 2080ti, like 20-40% depending on existing 2080ti benchmarks. (You multiply a 5700XT's score by 2, then divide by a 2080ti's score in the same benchmark, and that tells you how much of an uplift we can expect) )

TSMC N7+ is better than Samsung 8nm, but Nvidia also just has more experience and maturity to get things right and make up for its loss in lithography. 

 

Current leaks say that Nvidia will not announce a 3080ti on Sep 1st. If and when AMD does get close or even surpasses the 3080 in performance, Nvidia will release a 3080ti, to take the performance crown back. 

[soxsure]

*revive* Okay so after the Nvidia Stream about the next gup series... Well there is now NVIDIA RTX IO which is awesome. And maybe a reason to upgrade to pcie 4.0 damn

I hope links are allowed here https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-io-gpu-accelerated-storage-technology/