Liquid Cooling system upgrade / build refresh for the 9600KF

[Fast_N_Curious]

This has been in the works for quite sometime. While I have not purchased any of the parts yet, I will be pulling the trigger shortly. Do you guys approve / and/or offer recommendations based on my hardware choices... Only thing I already have is the rig on air cooling and the coolermaster case that houses it.

I am essentially trying to build a high performance liquid cooling system with a 120mm radiator as the core.  I went to AlphaCool and chose their thickest 120mm rad:

 

 

This is because the coolermaster case I am using for this build does not have provisions for anything larger than a 120 mm rad

 

*I promised to switch from air cooling (currently running the MSI Core Frozr XL 120) which holds 5GH on the 9600KF no problem, however, it will get a little loud under heavy CPU load.  But I'd prefer to try the greener grass on the otherside so we are moving to liquid cooling:

 

MSI Cooling Core Frozr XL

 

 

MORE ON THE CASE I WILL BE USING:

*I like the look and I've owned this case prior so I want another go with it
*It is nearly silent with cladding and sound deadening within (= more heat to deal with)
*As a challenge to see just how much I can get out of a relatively difficult to cool case with a relatively hot running six core CPU at 5GHz

*For fun This is a for fun project and offers purely entertainment value, but make no mistake it will server a very serious purpose and this will not be a walk in the park. 

The thicker 120 mm radiator will work with my setup is because the mounting backplate for the rad is set back about 3/4" so this basically equates to more free space between the mounting area (Meaning the width of the 120mm rad can be larger than average) And I'm not afraid to use the angle grinder if needed

 

Case in question is the Coolermaster Sileo 500 - a relatively quiet case from the factory. This will be my last build on the other case designs, so for me it will be a  milestone achievement 

Back:

Side with internal view, note 120mm towards the back. That's where the radiator's gonna go. 

 

 

 

Radiator Selection (This will FIT):

Alphacool 14180 NexXxoS Monsta 120mm Radiator Water Cooling Radiator

 

WaterBlock:

Watercool HEATKILLER IV PRO CPU Water Block, Intel CPU, Pure Copper

 

Pump:

800L/H 8W 7V Water Cooling Pump Tank with 4 Meters Pump Head & LED Power Indicator G1/4 Thread Fast Heat Dissipation CPU Cooling System (12cm-Black)

 

Temp Sensor:

Bitspower G1/4" Temperature Sensor Stop Fitting, Matte Black

 

 

 

Soft Tubing: 

PrimoFlex Advanced LRT 3/8in. ID x 1/2in. OD Tubing Bundle (10ft Pack) - Crystal Clear

 

G1/4" male to male fttings:

XSPC G1/4" 5mm Male to Male Fitting, Chrome, 4-Pack

 

Single front 120mm case fan:

Noctua NF-F12 PWM chromax.Black.swap, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (120mm, Black)

 

Dual 120mm radiator fans:

Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (120mm, Brown)

 

 

 

EKWB EK-Quantum Torque STC-10/13 Compression Fitting for Soft Tubing, 10/13mm (3/8" ID, 1/2" OD), Nickel, 4-Pack

 

 

Barrow Pressure Equalizer Stop Plug For PC Liquid Water Cooling Chromed G1/4 Thread

 

Water Cooling Copper Filter 2 G1/4" Ports for Liquid Cooling System Loop (Silver)

 

SDTC Tech 6 Pack G1/4" Plug Fitting with O-Ring for PC Water Cooling Systems, Silver

 

EK-AF Classic Angled 90° - Black Nickel 2 Pack

 

 

EKWB EK-Loop Multi Allen Key

 

 

EKWB EK-Quantum Torque STC-10/13 Compression Fitting for Soft Tubing, 10/13mm (3/8" ID, 1/2" OD), Nickel

 

 

EKWB EK-CryoFuel Concentrate Coolant, 100mL, Navy Blue

 

2nd Reservoir:  (Yes, I will have two reservoirs in the same loop)

This is actually much more than a reservoir to monitor levels. You can attach up to two D5 pumps down the road that mount to the back. Essentially, I am building redundancy into the system. If the first pump fails or is flat out just a bad performer, or I just don't like it, I can always shift a few lines and acquire some D5 pumps, and have my system back up and running in short order...  So we have an extra level of protection here, plus, it's another AlphaCool creation and it will take up two 5.25" drive bays, . But for NOW we are starting this component off as a reservoir and nothing more:

 

 

Provisions to mount up to two D5 pumps off this secondary reservoir. For now it's just going to be used as a plain old reservoir, that's all. But down the road, we will tinker with it. 

 

 

What do you think guys? Is this going to be a durable setup so long as everything is done correctly?  Any recommendations on other parts or ideas are welcome. I worked with AIO solutions quite a bit but not so much with custom loops. So this will be my first custom loop and I'm very exicited to try this out. 

 

 

[Levent]

Considering binned 9600Ks are using more than 180w's when overclocked to 5ghz, I wouldnt get my hopes up on single 120mm rad to handle that, especially when pulling air from inside the case. I am sure that if you have massive amounts of liquid in your loop you will hit 5ghz for a while but I am not sure if you can sustain it when you reach equilibrium.

[Letgomyleghoe]

Get a different case if you’re gonna drop so much money on a pc

[Statik]

High performance custom loop, and single 120mm rad don't belong in the same sentence. IMHO that's a giant waste of money. You should have significantly more radiator coverage... 120mm AIOs are a waste of money, and a 120mm custom loop is even worse...

[Letgomyleghoe]

6 minutes ago, Statik said:

High performance custom loop, and single 120mm rad don't belong in the same sentence. IMHO that's a giant waste of money. You should have significantly more radiator coverage... 120mm AIOs are a waste of money, and a 120mm custom loop is even worse...

He needs a change of case too.

 

 

 

honestly go with a meshify c, you’ll love it, it’s quite if you buy the right fans, how with a 280mm on top and you’re good, if you’re also water cooling your gpu, slap a 360mm in the front too, keep the same noctuas and you’re all good to go.

[rtyall]

If you're not averse to modding the case and you're determined to stick with it, any reason why you can't hack a hole in the top or side panel and stick in a 240 or 280 rad instead, or even externally mount a bigger rad?

[For Science!]

14 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

He needs a change of case too.

 

 

 

honestly go with a meshify c, you’ll love it, it’s quite if you buy the right fans, how with a 280mm on top and you’re good, if you’re also water cooling your gpu, slap a 360mm in the front too, keep the same noctuas and you’re all good to go.

Just saying that 280 mm on top in a meshify C is quite a struggle. Stick to 240 mm for the top.

[HM-2]

If you're intent on keeping the case, you could strip out the front drive bays entirely and mount a 240mm radiator, pump and res combo in their place. Would probably require a bit of customisation but should be eminently doable. 

[Blai5e]

2 hours ago, HM-2 said:

If you're intent on keeping the case, you could strip out the front drive bays entirely and mount a 240mm radiator, pump and res combo in their place. Would probably require a bit of customisation but should be eminently doable. 

His current case has rear grommets allowing you to add an external radiator but...

with the amount of coin being dropped on the watercooling equipment, a new (modern) case that can support a larger radiator would be prudent purchase. Seems quite silly to run near top-shelf gear, stifle yourself with a cramped case with an underwhelming radiator surface area but expect your CPU to dance in relative silence at 5GHz under load.

 

If budgetary constraints are a factor for retaining the case, put up with the "little loud under full load" for a bit longer and save up the extra for a more suitable case and larger radiator. As an initial cost savings, drop the second reservoir as it is just an unnecessary extravagance for the build.

[HM-2]

1 hour ago, Blai5e said:

If budgetary constraints are a factor for retaining the case, 

I more meant it the case has some emotional or sentimental value to him. I totally get the desire to want to jam ridiculously overpowered hardware into a totally inappropriate case.

[Fast_N_Curious]

20 hours ago, Levent said:

Considering binned 9600Ks are using more than 180w's when overclocked to 5ghz, I wouldnt get my hopes up on single 120mm rad to handle that, especially when pulling air from inside the case. I am sure that if you have massive amounts of liquid in your loop you will hit 5ghz for a while but I am not sure if you can sustain it when you reach equilibrium.

Okay I wont get my hopes up. I'm confident I will hit my goal of 5GHz, however, as I had the same CPU under another 120mm radiator before at the desired 5.0GHz. I tested it under one of these in a rig I built for my brother and tested before I handed it over to him. It was able to hold 5GHz. Don't get me wrong, it was close to the limit of the liquid cooler, but I think I can do it better with better parts and make it work. And that's why I'm here.

 

Here is the case and liquid cooling system I tested the 9600KF (has a built in 120mm liquid cooling system).

 

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811853055

 

20 hours ago, Statik said:

High performance custom loop, and single 120mm rad don't belong in the same sentence. IMHO that's a giant waste of money. You should have significantly more radiator coverage... 120mm AIOs are a waste of money, and a 120mm custom loop is even worse...

Sure they do. It's all relative to what you are cooling and what type of restrictions you have to deal with. Small piston engines can be designed as high performance power-plants. There isn't a virtual cutoff at like 454 cubic inches that says this is high performance and this is too small to be high performance. 

 

20 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

He needs a change of case too.

 

 

 

honestly go with a meshify c, you’ll love it, it’s quite if you buy the right fans, how with a 280mm on top and you’re good, if you’re also water cooling your gpu, slap a 360mm in the front too, keep the same noctuas and you’re all good to go.

 

I know I know. The case needs to be changed. However, it has sentimental value to me as it was the last case my dad and I used to build the last computer before he passed away a few years ago, so I am keeping it and going to use it for this build. Final answer, we are using it. Period.

 

20 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

Get a different case if you’re gonna drop so much money on a pc

See above - I probably will eventually move the hardware to a better case but not for the immediate future. 

 

5 hours ago, HM-2 said:

If you're intent on keeping the case, you could strip out the front drive bays entirely and mount a 240mm radiator, pump and res combo in their place. Would probably require a bit of customisation but should be eminently doable. 

Yes, that's a good observation. Matter of fact you can just fit a 360mm radiator in the bottom area of the case by removing the front hard drive bays! I've done it. And you can also shim it so that it actually draws in cool air. And you can actually button it up and put the side of the case back on if  you wanted. Matter of fact I used a 360mm rad to cool a 4GHz Phenom II x6 chip with it  years ago. The problem with this setup is that it's video card dependent. You need to have a relatively low height video card to leave enough area above for the water cooling lines to the CPU block and back to the rad. Since I'm going to be running an MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming X GPU, the larger radiator is not possible with this build. My hand is forced. I must use a 120mm cooler. 

 

7 hours ago, rtyall said:

If you're not averse to modding the case and you're determined to stick with it, any reason why you can't hack a hole in the top or side panel and stick in a 240 or 280 rad instead, or even externally mount a bigger rad?

 

I've considered this. I may put up to one 120mm CPU cooler fan on the outside for a push / pull effect on airflow through the radiator if I need slightly more airflow through the cooler and that makes or breaks it. If I can get away with it, I want to keep all inside if possible. It's like a colostomy bag, you don't want to wear one until absolutely necessary. lol

 

2 hours ago, Blai5e said:

His current case has rear grommets allowing you to add an external radiator but...

with the amount of coin being dropped on the watercooling equipment, a new (modern) case that can support a larger radiator would be prudent purchase. Seems quite silly to run near top-shelf gear, stifle yourself with a cramped case with an underwhelming radiator surface area but expect your CPU to dance in relative silence at 5GHz under load.

 

If budgetary constraints are a factor for retaining the case, put up with the "little loud under full load" for a bit longer and save up the extra for a more suitable case and larger radiator. As an initial cost savings, drop the second reservoir as it is just an unnecessary extravagance for the build.

I understand and acknowledge all points made, it would be prudent and wise to go with a better case and cooling the 9600KF would be very easy. A breeze in fact. Forgive the pun... But you have to understand this. First of all, judging from the hardware chosen from my list, you should be able to see that money is not a concern with this build. So that said, this build has an unlimited budget. It's being done purely for sentimental reasons AND for fun, and als to distract me from the stupid virus quarantine. Something to do for me to remain productive and help pass the time. 

 

EDIT: And it must seem like a waste to put in this system  - - I get why you could think that. Don't worry, the liquid cooling system wont stay cramped up in this case for the duration of it's life. Im constantly upgrading/swapping/modifying and it will likely end up under a 9900K with a 280mm eventually, so it's okay.

 

2nd EDIT: 

One thing we are all forgetting here is that this will, intentionally, be a challenging build to make work correctly given the wattage and heat output of the processor at 5 GHz and the constraints and weaknesses of the case. But I did that on purpose. It's not fun to just throw a computer together and call it good. I've built so many computers at this point I am getting disinterested in simply throwing the parts together and calling it good. The truth is I NEED the challenge to keep myself interested. 

 

You also have to remember, I had a lot of people who were critical of the use of the MSI Core Frozr XL 120mm air cooler on the initial build and initial overclock to 5.0GHz. Many people said I would never be able to hold 5 GHz under that air cooler given my hardware specs. They said it was also impossible to do in the very same case. Granted, I had to take the side panel off when gaming, but that was related more to the very hot running RX 580 adding huge amounts of heat to the inside of the case and less to do with the actual CPU overclock... ie. it was GPU related, as the CPU still staying inside acceptable limits while gaming. but we met all initial air cooling objectives with the build as proven by multiple 1 hour runs of torture testing, which revealed that while the cooling system as a whole was being pushed pretty hard, it still kept the CPU under control and within acceptable limits.

 

Since we now have upgraded to a MUCH cooler running GPU this heat soak problem should not be an issue., The Radeon RX 5700 XT remains stone cold despite intensive gaming. It's a bulletproof cooling system that MSI designed here. Matter of fact, I will make the statement that MSI's air cooling system on the RX 5700 XT GAMING X GPU is second to none on the consumer market. 

 

[Statik]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:35 PM, Storm-Chaser said:

<please snip long quotes>

I would classify a "high performance custom loop" as a loop that is more than capable of cooling an entire high end system, under heavy load, without struggle. Putting a 120mm into a CPU only custom loop doesn't fit that bill at all. You don't even have your GPU included.. You literally may as well buy a 120mm AIO.

 

For instance, EK has a general rule, that you should go with x1 120/140mm rad per component, then add another 120/140mm if you plan to OC.

 

For example, if you wanted to do the bare minimum (which isn't high performance) and do a stock CPU custom loop (why, I don't know), you can do 120mm. As soon as you want to OC, you should turn that into a 240mm. If you want to add your GPU, you now need 360mm, want to OC your GPU, 480mm, at least.

 

Like @Levent said, a 5.0Ghz 9600k can push around 180w, a typical 120mm rad can displace around ~130w of heat. I understand you selected a thicker rad, so you're likely a little over that, but you're still MAXED out, and might run into stability issues. So having a single rad, on a single mid tier component, running balls to the wall is actually more the opposite of a "high performance system".

 

 

I understand you want to do this for a handful of reasons, but understand it's not high performance, and realistically it's a large amount of money, that you could accomplish for $80-100 with a DRP4 or a Noctua cooler. SInce you have an "unlimited" budget, if you truly want to get "high performance cooling" and get your moneys worth (if that's even possible with custom loops haha), you should get rid of that abomination of a case, get a couple 240mm rads, and a GPU block, and go that route.

 

Another note is having two pumps/res for "redundancy" is kind of pointless. You're just adding another weak link, and another possibility for failure. You wouldn't jerry rig another engine on a car in case the first one breaks down. If for some reason your pump fails, you fix it, then replace it, which you would likely have to do anyways if one of two failed. Regardless you'll be shutting down your system, draining the loop, and fixing it.

 

I frequent multiple OCing/Watercooling forums and I have never in my life seen a system in an old case, with 2 pumps/res, and a 120mm rad, and called it high performance.

Edited August 23, 2020 by SansVarnic
Snipped quote

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 hour ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Sure they do. It's all relative to what you are cooling and what type of restrictions you have to deal with. Small piston engines can be designed as high performance power-plants. There isn't a virtual cutoff at like 454 cubic inches that says this is high performance and this is too small to be high performance. 

That’s how it works with engines, not water cooling, there is so many variables with engines ie rpm, how much air it pulls, turbo, supercharged, fuel injection, 6 speed gear boxes.

 

with water cooling it’s how much surface area you have for your rad and what you’re cooling, your basically gonna make your “engine” overheat because your radiator isn’t big enough, is what we’re trying to say.

1 hour ago, Storm-Chaser said:

I know I know. The case needs to be changed. However, it has sentimental value to me as it was the last case my dad and I used to build the last computer before he passed away a few years ago, so I am keeping it and going to use it for this build. Final answer, we are using it. Period.

Cut a hole in the top or remove the driver cages and make some frontal fan mounts, I get hardware can be sentimental but don’t get hung up on it. and it’s not a “we” it’s a *you* you’re making the decisions not I, I’m just letting you know that case

is really bad for airflow and meant for low power parts that don’t need airflow, not 10th gen intel.

1 hour ago, Storm-Chaser said:

One thing we are all forgetting here is that this will, intentionally, be a challenging build to make work correctly given the wattage and heat output of the processor at 5 GHz and the constraints and weaknesses of the case. But I did that on purpose. It's not fun to just throw a computer together and call it good. I've built so many computers at this point I am getting disinterested in simply throwing the parts together and calling it good. The truth is I NEED the challenge to keep myself interested. 

So the problem is we’re trying to help you by suggesting things and you’re denying them, I’m going to say this and then I’m out of this thread because you’re not receiving anything, YOU WILL NOT HIT A STABLE 5Ghz WITH A 120MM RAD AND NO FRONTAL AIRFLOW, you need to either mod the front panel or the top of the case, or somewhere to pull air into the case there’s not even cool air moving through that case for the rad to use! 
 

good luck continuing with this, but you need to be more excepting of modding the case if you want to hit 5Ghz, and 5Ghz isn’t even a guaranteed even with good air cooling. 

[Fast_N_Curious]

1 hour ago, Statik said:

I would classify a "high performance custom loop" as a loop that is more than capable of cooling an entire high end system, under heavy load, without struggle. Putting a 120mm into a CPU only custom loop doesn't fit that bill at all. You don't even have your GPU included.. You literally may as well buy a 120mm AIO.

 

For instance, EK has a general rule, that you should go with x1 120/140mm rad per component, then add another 120/140mm if you plan to OC.

 

For example, if you wanted to do the bare minimum (which isn't high performance) and do a stock CPU custom loop (why, I don't know), you can do 120mm. As soon as you want to OC, you should turn that into a 240mm. If you want to add your GPU, you now need 360mm, want to OC your GPU, 480mm, at least.

 

Like @Levent said, a 5.0Ghz 9600k can push around 180w, a typical 120mm rad can displace around ~130w of heat. I understand you selected a thicker rad, so you're likely a little over that, but you're still MAXED out, and might run into stability issues. So having a single rad, on a single mid tier component, running balls to the wall is actually more the opposite of a "high performance system".

 

I frequent multiple OCing/Watercooling forums and I have never in my life seen a system in an old case, with 2 pumps/res, and a 120mm rad, and called it high performance. 

 

 

 

Still not getting it I see. I'm actually a little surprised you are still pushing the issue because otherwise, it seems like you might actually have some reasonable level of cooling related knowledge. And apparently, in their pride, Corsair must be mistaken when they classify one of their own 120mm liquid coolers as "High Performance"? Or should we accusing them of having a "double standard"? lol, or maybe we should blame Newegg for blatant product "misrepresentation"? 

 

https://www.newegg.com/corsair-liquid-cooling-system/p/N82E16835181030?Description=120mm radiator&cm_re=120mm_radiator-_-35-181-030-_-Product

 

To grasp this very simple and very basic concept, lets start with the definition of "high performance":

 

1) working or operating at an above average standard

 

2) able to operate to a high standard and at high speed:

 

High "standard" is not a static number, its completely subjective to your given hardware. This isn't anything like applying a universal constant.

 

That "standard" should be measured in reference to other parts that may fit the same place and/or serve the same role. For example, I installed a pair of 44mm Buckshot carburetors in my seadoo. These are high performance carburetors that improve top end horsepower and throttle response as the stock carbs are smaller at 40mm and as a result, much more restrictive. Take these same 44mm "high performance" carbs and attach them to a much larger engine and overall performance will suffer. In other words, the classification of what is high performance and what is NOT high performance should be measured from within the specific hardware set you are working with. Remember, "performance" as a definition not some universal quotient or value. It's not like pie (3.14) or anything of the sort. It's totally subjective to what you are working with, and I think in your case, this is where the obvious disconnect and/or lack of comprehension is occurring.

 

As I said earlier, just because the size of the 120 mm radiator is small, does not somehow "disqualify" it from being a high performance piece. 

 

For example, using your logic, You wouldn't call the 1966 Shelby Cobra 427 a high performance vehicle because it's "too small" and only weighs 2000lb, would you? It's called power to weight ratio and AGAIN that # is totally dependent on the actual hardware in question. Very surprised you are have a tough time with these very basic, rudimentary ideals.

 

[Statik]

If you want to be a facetious and salty we can do that too. You're using a completely different topic and comparing apples to oranges in an attempt to prove me wrong.

 

5 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

 

 

Still not getting it I see. I'm actually a little surprised you are still pushing the issue because otherwise, it seems like you might actually have some reasonable level of cooling related knowledge. And apparently, in their pride, Corsair must be mistaken when they classify one of their own 120mm liquid coolers as "High Performance"? Or should we accusing them of having a "double standard"? lol, or maybe we should blame Newegg for blatant product "misrepresentation"? 

Have you heard of marketing? No company is going to say "here's our below average cooler". Every company finds some loop hole to market their product as "high performance __" or best in class ____. For instance, on a computer topic, I could list off several VPN companies that list their VPN as "#1 rated VPN int he world" The list goes on.

 

5 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

 

 

To grasp this very simple and very basic concept, lets start with the definition of "high performance":

 

1) working or operating at an above average standard

 

2) able to operate to a high standard and at high speed:

High performance has no one definition. It's subject to the specific application/situation. So trying to insult, then "defining" it, then directly contradicting yourself by saying "it depends" while spewing about your seadoo isn't a great argument. When I'm speaking of a "high performance" custom loop, I'm talking in relation to other custom loops, I don't give two shits about the carbs on your seadoo, or how big an engine is. I'm comparing it to something equal (i.e. another custom cooling solution). If EK says the standard (not above standard) for an OC'd CPU is 240mm, then I'm inclined to believe it's 240mm, not 120mm. That's all I'm trying to express to you.

5 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

As I said earlier, just because the size of the 120 mm radiator is small, does not somehow "disqualify" it from being a high performance piece.

I'm not saying that that particular radiator is bad. I'm saying that particular radiator isn't enough to cool your PC accurately. Since your adamant on relating it to another topic you think you know more than me about, I'll try to talk about engines for you so you can understand. A Kawasaki Ninja 650 has what, 70hp? Since the bike is like 200kg, it goes like a bat out of hell. But if you were to drop that thing in a F150, it's not going to do shit. So sure, it's a great high performance piece of engineering, but not in that truck its not, because it can't do shit.

 

That's what I'm saying about this loop. Your components themselves aren't poor. They're good quality parts, it's that you don't have enough surface area to cool your components.

5 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

For example, using your logic, You wouldn't call the 1966 Shelby Cobra 427 a high performance vehicle because it's "too small" and only weighs 2000lb, would you? It's called power to weight ratio and AGAIN that # is totally dependent on the actual hardware in question. Very surprised you are have a tough time with these very basic, rudimentary ideals.

My logic has nothing to do with a Shelby Cobra, or it's size. Maybe, next time, try having a more mature approach and spend less time trying to slander people on the internet, and just think about what they're trying to explain. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm simply explaining that your loop simply does not have enough surface area to adequately cool the components that you are trying to cool.

 

 

But then again, maybe if you throw the words "cubic inch", "failure to grasp", and "your logic" around a few more times, maybe I'll cave and praise your 120mm dual pump/res idea.

[Fast_N_Curious]

1 hour ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

That’s how it works with engines, not water cooling, there is so many variables with engines ie rpm, how much air it pulls, turbo, supercharged, fuel injection, 6 speed gear boxes.

 

with water cooling it’s how much surface area you have for your rad and what you’re cooling, your basically gonna make your “engine” overheat because your radiator isn’t big enough, is what we’re trying to say.

Cut a hole in the top or remove the driver cages and make some frontal fan mounts, I get hardware can be sentimental but don’t get hung up on it. and it’s not a “we” it’s a *you* you’re making the decisions not I, I’m just letting you know that case

is really bad for airflow and meant for low power parts that don’t need airflow, not 10th gen intel.

So the problem is we’re trying to help you by suggesting things and you’re denying them, I’m going to say this and then I’m out of this thread because you’re not receiving anything, YOU WILL NOT HIT A STABLE 5Ghz WITH A 120MM RAD AND NO FRONTAL AIRFLOW, you need to either mod the front panel or the top of the case, or somewhere to pull air into the case there’s not even cool air moving through that case for the rad to use! 
 

good luck continuing with this, but you need to be more excepting of modding the case if you want to hit 5Ghz, and 5Ghz isn’t even a guaranteed even with good air cooling. 

No I get your point on the performance issue, I see where  you are coming from,  you are implying that because of the use of a small 120 mm liquid cooling radiator, I am actually limiting my overall overclock ceiling and as a result, cutting theoretical performance potential of the cooling system as a whole and going backwards.

 

The is the crux. But going back to basics, keep in mind and remember: the target goal of 5GHz is what we are after here. If I can achieve these results with my given hardware set, with temps under control, and 100% stability, the mission will have been a success. With this concise specification and requirement in mind, I am tailoring my actual hardware choices accordingly. Because of the radiator restriction in terms of size, I must maximize the performance of the actual components within the loop itself for optimal results. Remember, this new cooling solution will purpose built for 5GHz, at no point did I say I was doing it for any other reason. So lets disregard any issue or loss of "theoretical performance" because I've perhaps lowered my OC ceiling to some extent by using the smaller radiator....

 

For example, out of these two parts, which one of the two do you think is the high performance one and which one could potentially lower cooling system performance under heavy load? Both are 120mm radiators.

 

 

 

VS

 

 

 

 

 

[Vishera]

1 hour ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

That’s how it works with engines, not water cooling, there is so many variables with engines ie rpm, how much air it pulls, turbo, supercharged, fuel injection, 6 speed gear boxes.

As matter of fact car engines use the same cooling method as water cooled PCs,

A radiator,a pump,coolant,tubing and a reservoir.

 

  

14 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

If I can achieve these results with my given hardware set, with temps under control, and 100% stability, the mission will have been a success.

This is a fantasy...

120mm will never get you to 5GHz with this CPU.

[For Science!]

A 120 mm radiator would be an ideal choice if you cannot fit a Hyper 212 Evo class cooler in the chassis, for example in small form factor cases like the Ghost S1 or similar.

 

Otherwise even the thickest 120 mm radiators in push/pull will be out-competed by higher end aircoolers like the Noctua U14-S. From reading, the Sileo 500 can fit tower coolers up to 165 mm, and so I don't see why you would reduce your cooling potential by going for a small liquid cooler if you can fit a large aircooler without issue. It's not like this case has a window so the aesthetics argument doesn't really work here.

[Fast_N_Curious]

11 minutes ago, Vishera said:

As matter of fact car engines use the same cooling method as water cooled PCs,

A radiator,a pump,coolant,tubing and a reservoir.

Exactly. and depending on your vehicle's size and use characteristics, the size of the radiator will change accordingly.  A heavy car / automobile will require a substantially larger radiator, for example. This does NOT mean the cooling system and the tiny 400 mm x 350 mm radiator on my Honda 800cc Interceptor is lacking "performance" just because it is smaller. Words of the day: purpose built people!, purpose built! 

 

Build a cooling system that suits your power requirements and build it to your specifications. My usage case is my usage case, your mileage my vary.  Using all high performance cooling system parts, I am confident this cooling solution will fulfill the performance requirements and therefore enable me to reach the goal of this project which is an all core overclock of 5.0GHz. As I said, I wanted a challenge and now I've got one. 

 

Thanks for the advice and opinions so far. I value each one no matter if I agree with it or not. And for what it's worth, I do hold you guys in high regard this is why I posted here and not elsewhere. I apologize if some of my comments came off as condescending or anything else, just hashing out the details before I pull the trigger and make the purchase.

[Fast_N_Curious]

32 minutes ago, Vishera said:

As matter of fact car engines use the same cooling method as water cooled PCs,

A radiator,a pump,coolant,tubing and a reservoir.

 

  

This is a fantasy...

120mm will never get you to 5GHz with this CPU.

I said I wanted a challenge, and now I've got one

 

Matter of fact I'm somewhat optimistic about it based on past testing. As mentioned, I've already tested this CPU @ 5 GHz under a 120mm rad in the past. Granted, I didn't have a lot of time to invest in research, but by the end of the week or so that I had it together, I came away with the conclusion that 5 GHz would be feasible under a very good, HIGH PERFORMANCE 120mm liquid cooling solution. So I've set out to do just that!

[Vishera]

Just now, Storm-Chaser said:

Build a cooling system that suits your power requirements and build it to your specifications. My usage case is my usage case, your mileage my vary.  Using all high performance cooling system parts, I am confident this cooling solution will fulfill the performance requirements and therefore enable me to reach the goal of this project which is an all core overclock of 5.0GHz. As I said, I wanted a challenge and now I've got one. 

Do you realize that many air coolers outperform 120mm liquid coolers?

And they cost less,do yourself a favor and just buy a NH-D15.

It costs less and deliver more cooling performance.

 

The thing is that larger radiators give more surface area and allows to add more fans to dissipate the heat faster.

[Fast_N_Curious]

17 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Do you realize that many air coolers outperform 120mm liquid coolers?

And they cost less,do yourself a favor and just buy a NH-D15.

It costs less and deliver more cooling performance.

 

The thing is that larger radiators give more surface area and allows to add more fans to dissipate the heat faster.

Yes I know, I originally had it on air cooling anyway. I know of at least two air coolers on the market that would have no problem cooling this CPU at 5GHz. But that's not the point, and besides, IIRC they both have 140 mm cooling fans which would make it difficult to shut the side panel on this particular case, since they both are about the size of a large head of lettuce and I already have very little headroom to spare with the lid on.

 

Moving from one to the other, air to liquid, as promised early in the project is a goal I did not forget about. Plus, I want to keep things interesting. Remember this is a pure coronavirus boredom killer. I don't necessarily want to make it easy on myself!

 

Again, the project is not about money or economy or anything else, it's purely a continuation of a project that has been the works for at least 6 months now and it's being done for entertainment/sentimental value. 

 

When I ask for help here I am generally seeking help for tips with my liquid cooling system in particular. As this is my first custom loop, I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing anything and have all my ducks in a row. I want to more or less keep the original hardware intact, other than the GPU upgrade to a 5700 XT.

 

So any calls to replace the case or upgrade to a bigger radiator are not relevant and should be avoided. It's happening, and it's happening with the hardware I want. 

 

So anything specific to the water cooling system is where we want to focus. The other hardware, not so much none of it is changing. 

 

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 hour ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Remember, this new cooling solution will purpose built for 5GHz, at no point did I say I was doing it for any other reason. So lets disregard any issue or loss of "theoretical performance" because I've perhaps lowered my OC ceiling to some extent by using the smaller radiator....

That’s not it at all, you don’t even have thermal headroom to reach 5Ghz with a 120mm radiator, you need to mod the case to fit *at least* a 240mm radiator.

 

27 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

I don't necessarily want to make it easy on myself!

Your not even trying to reach a challenge, you’re just setting yourself up for failure, reaching 5Ghz should be the challenge, not reaching 5Ghz while running my cpu at 105c.

 

its one or the other mod the case, or deal with terrible thermals and a high probability of thermal throttling your cpu, anyway I’m out, no point in continuing this. 

[Fast_N_Curious]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

A 120 mm radiator would be an ideal choice if you cannot fit a Hyper 212 Evo class cooler in the chassis, for example in small form factor cases like the Ghost S1 or similar.

 

Otherwise even the thickest 120 mm radiators in push/pull will be out-competed by higher end aircoolers like the Noctua U14-S. From reading, the Sileo 500 can fit tower coolers up to 165 mm, and so I don't see why you would reduce your cooling potential by going for a small liquid cooler if you can fit a large aircooler without issue. It's not like this case has a window so the aesthetics argument doesn't really work here.

Matter of fact you can actually fit a 360mm radiator in a Sileo 500 with removal of the front hard drive bays, and then close the lid if you do it right. I did that for a while with a six core phenom II chip. Only trade off is you need a relatively low profile video card to allow for enough space for your coolant lines to run over top.  I even made up custom brackets using my welder, to facilitate airflow from below, so the 360mm radiator is actually pulling in fresh air from outside the case. Worked fine for me. The reason I cant use that solution now is because after upgrading the GPU, I don't have enough space above to run the coolant lines and still be able to shut the cover. If I got super creative I could make it work, but I'm curious right now as to what I can get out of a 120mm at the high end. 

 

I have to inform you that this is part of an ongoing 9600KF project I've been working on for over six months now. I originally started with air cooling, and I'm just now moving to liquid cooling, as I said I would over six months ago. 

 

Early in this project I informed some folks that I intended to see where I could get with air cooling, based on the use of the MSI Core Frozr XL, with a target of 5GHz and that I would eventually measure up a comparable 120 mm liquid cooling solution and measure the difference between the two. I achieved that end goal with air cooling and now it's time to switch over to liquid cooling and see just how hard I can push it. 

[Fast_N_Curious]

10 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

That’s not it at all, you don’t even have thermal headroom to reach 5Ghz with a 120mm radiator, you need to mod the case to fit *at least* a 240mm radiator.

 

Your not even trying to reach a challenge, you’re just setting yourself up for failure, reaching 5Ghz should be the challenge, not reaching 5Ghz while running my cpu at 105c.

 

its one or the other mod the case, or deal with terrible thermals and a high probability of thermal throttling your cpu, anyway I’m out, no point in continuing this. 

Yes, it's correct to point out that the case would need to be modded for a larger radiator. You can even fit a 360mm water cooler in there with custom lines if you remove the HDD bracket. yes, It could be done. The reason I held off on doing that for this phase is because I am curious to see what #s I can hit using high performance parts and a 120 mm radiator and my GPU would interfere with the coolant lines. I want to measure the performance potential of a pretty good water cooling solution using strictly a 120mm rad.

 

In regards to the thermal headroom on a 120 mm rad, well you my be right. but then again you may be wrong, not sure if you missed it but I've already done some initial research and development with the same CPU under the BARONKASE LIQUID GAMER STORM CASE, because in my initial testing, 5.0GHz was achievable and while the fans have to spin up and must be set more aggressively, it should be more than possible to replicate these results.

 

At the end of the day I can understand your frustration with my decisions. If you want to step out, far enough, then I might suggest you stop back in a few months and take a look for my results in the torture tests. I don't want you to think that I am completely disregarding your opinion, you guys have all raised valid concerns, and my intent is not to ignore or cast down, I just have some more-specific-than-average rules I am following when it comes to this build. Because in many other circumstances, I would be in 100% agreement to what you guys are saying.