Does anyone own a MOTU M4 here by any chance?

The Flying Sloth · March 31, 2021

1 hour ago, MS-DOS said:

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I still haven't bought anything. Im still using the onboard audio and I really want to go back to using the Modi 3 for my headphones.

I was considering this one which I assume is the same as the 404HD sound quality wise but smaller since I want to place it on top my computer case and the other one is probably too big:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_u_phoria_umc204hd.htm?shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6NCwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOiJlbiJ9

My question is, what knob would control the volume the Modi 3 plays at? or it will play at "max" default and I just control the volume with the Modi 3 knob?

And I need to buy unbalanced to unbalanced since this only only has 2 outs balanced. It makes no difference in sound quality right? because the ak1 has 2 pairs of balanced outs and it sounded pretty good

The ak1 also had separate knobs so I was able to control monitor volume and headphones separately, so im not sure if I would have problems with this one since the same knob may control monitors + headphones at once.

Also, do you have a blindfold test studies to prove that these cheap units sound the same as 1000€ RMEs? That is still pretty shocking. I've found this so far:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/

Very interesting and looks like you are right. However does this also apply to sound quality of the built-in headphone amp and when driving a separate amp unit? (in my case I will be using the Modi 3 like I said)

Jesus this is an old thread.

The 202HD is probably best bang for buck at the moment (it has separate volume for headphones and main outs too) and as for the ADA8200 having comparable converters to the Lynx units, there was a blind AB comparison on a very popular studio audio forum not long ago where (from memory) the results showed most people preferred the 8200.

H713 · March 31, 2021

1 hour ago, MS-DOS said:

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I still haven't bought anything. Im still using the onboard audio and I really want to go back to using the Modi 3 for my headphones.

I was considering this one which I assume is the same as the 404HD sound quality wise but smaller since I want to place it on top my computer case and the other one is probably too big:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_u_phoria_umc204hd.htm?shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6NCwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOiJlbiJ9

My question is, what knob would control the volume the Modi 3 plays at? or it will play at "max" default and I just control the volume with the Modi 3 knob?

And I need to buy unbalanced to unbalanced since this only only has 2 outs balanced. It makes no difference in sound quality right? because the ak1 has 2 pairs of balanced outs and it sounded pretty good

The ak1 also had separate knobs so I was able to control monitor volume and headphones separately, so im not sure if I would have problems with this one since the same knob may control monitors + headphones at once.

Also, do you have a blindfold test studies to prove that these cheap units sound the same as 1000€ RMEs? That is still pretty shocking. I've found this so far:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/

Very interesting and looks like you are right. However does this also apply to sound quality of the built-in headphone amp and when driving a separate amp unit? (in my case I will be using the Modi 3 like I said)

The Modi is a separate DAC, so there's no good way for you to control it using the Behringer.

As for the differences between the Behringer and the RME...

The answer is "it depends". The RME measures a lot better. No question about it. In fact, the ADI-2 performs well enough that Audio Precision even suggests using it (with their software) for less-demanding test applications. There are a lot of uses for an audio interface besides just recording in your bedroom. Anyone suggesting that "the RME is for Audiophools" is missing the point, and a single blind test may not be sufficient to show differences. There are a lot of different ways that an interface can perform well (or poorly), and a single listening test (even a good blind one) doesn't show all of them.

The Behringer is probably the budget king, but it's still a budget interface. The M4 is a significant step above it, and the RME is a significant step above the M4. Will you hear a difference in the converters? That depends on the circumstance and how it's being used. Companies like RME, Lynx, Apogee and Metric Halo are selling a professional product. Reliability and longevity are much better, performance is better, and the customer service is better. I have a Lynx L22 from 2003 in one of my systems. It works flawlessly on Windows 10, and it still beats the performance of any Behringer interface despite being over 15 years old. By contrast, I have a Behringer FCA610 (don't remember the age) that is significantly noisier and has much lousier drivers. Of course, the Lynx was also probably a $700 card when it was new.

I'd also like to address one point about the Behringer that it uses "Midas preamps". That means virtually nothing these days- it's just marketing. First, there have been a lot of different preamps to bear the Midas name, some better than others. The later Midas consoles used a chip (I want to say they used the SSM2017, which has been replaced by the SSM2019). The SSM2019, like the SSM2017 that came before it, is a pretty costly Analog Devices part and I would be very surprised to see it in an $80 interface. They're probably using something a little less expensive.

To be clear, I'm not trying to knock the Behringer. Considering the price, it's remarkable that it works at all, but it does so quite well. Most people would probably be more than satisfied with it. If you need rock-solid reliability or low noise performance, it's best to look elsewhere, but most people don't need that.

MS-DOS · March 31, 2021

1 hour ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Jesus this is an old thread.

The 202HD is probably best bang for buck at the moment (it has separate volume for headphones and main outs too) and as for the ADA8200 having comparable converters to the Lynx units, there was a blind AB comparison on a very popular studio audio forum not long ago where (from memory) the results showed most people preferred the 8200.

What I mean is if I plug the Modi 3 on the 204HD (can't plug them on a 202HD) which I assume it goes on the playback outs (either A or B, and not on the Insert ones) if I move the knob, it will move the volume of both the monitors and the pre-amp at the same time?

The "main out" one. I just don't get this. Because if I move the monitors volume, it will also move the volume on my headphones.

And what is that other "Mix" knob for?

MS-DOS · April 2, 2021

On 3/31/2021 at 5:22 AM, H713 said:

The Modi is a separate DAC, so there's no good way for you to control it using the Behringer.

As for the differences between the Behringer and the RME...

The answer is "it depends". The RME measures a lot better. No question about it. In fact, the ADI-2 performs well enough that Audio Precision even suggests using it (with their software) for less-demanding test applications. There are a lot of uses for an audio interface besides just recording in your bedroom. Anyone suggesting that "the RME is for Audiophools" is missing the point, and a single blind test may not be sufficient to show differences. There are a lot of different ways that an interface can perform well (or poorly), and a single listening test (even a good blind one) doesn't show all of them.

The Behringer is probably the budget king, but it's still a budget interface. The M4 is a significant step above it, and the RME is a significant step above the M4. Will you hear a difference in the converters? That depends on the circumstance and how it's being used. Companies like RME, Lynx, Apogee and Metric Halo are selling a professional product. Reliability and longevity are much better, performance is better, and the customer service is better. I have a Lynx L22 from 2003 in one of my systems. It works flawlessly on Windows 10, and it still beats the performance of any Behringer interface despite being over 15 years old. By contrast, I have a Behringer FCA610 (don't remember the age) that is significantly noisier and has much lousier drivers. Of course, the Lynx was also probably a $700 card when it was new.

I'd also like to address one point about the Behringer that it uses "Midas preamps". That means virtually nothing these days- it's just marketing. First, there have been a lot of different preamps to bear the Midas name, some better than others. The later Midas consoles used a chip (I want to say they used the SSM2017, which has been replaced by the SSM2019). The SSM2019, like the SSM2017 that came before it, is a pretty costly Analog Devices part and I would be very surprised to see it in an $80 interface. They're probably using something a little less expensive.

To be clear, I'm not trying to knock the Behringer. Considering the price, it's remarkable that it works at all, but it does so quite well. Most people would probably be more than satisfied with it. If you need rock-solid reliability or low noise performance, it's best to look elsewhere, but most people don't need that.