Speakers (HS5s) buzzing only when playing games (using USB Audio interface)

[Astroflash]

I have seen many people complain about this sort of issue online but not many obvious solutions.

 

I have a pair of Yamaha HS5s plugged into my USB Audio interface using balanced cables. The problem is that when I play a game/put a strong workload on the GPU(1080Ti), I get a buzzing noise in both my speakers. I've had this issue for some time, and I've noticed its followed me through different motherboards, three different audio interfaces, and different USB ports. What's the likely issue? I've heard some suggestions that I should plug the speakers into a different wall socket to the PC, but I only have two sockets available, and one is reserved for a Powerline plug... Cheers

 

Update: Fixed by purchasing a hum destroyer.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_microhd_hd400.htm

 

Note you will obviously need an additional set of speaker cables.

[burh4n]

6 minutes ago, Astroflash said:

USB Audio interface using balanced cables

What's the USB interface? Is it possible the interface is the issue if it's common between all your setups? Also, silly question, have you tried different USB cables?

Since you're using balanced cables, it's unlikely to be interference from an external source thru the cables. To me it sounds like there's a ground loop or mismatched ground between the USB interface and the PC somewhere. Maybe something to try: use a wire to ground the USB interface to the PC. See if you can find a ground point on the USB interface and wire that back to one of the screws that mounts your PC power supply. 

[Astroflash]

1 hour ago, burh4n said:

What's the USB interface? Is it possible the interface is the issue if it's common between all your setups? Also, silly question, have you tried different USB cables?

Since you're using balanced cables, it's unlikely to be interference from an external source thru the cables. To me it sounds like there's a ground loop or mismatched ground between the USB interface and the PC somewhere. Maybe something to try: use a wire to ground the USB interface to the PC. See if you can find a ground point on the USB interface and wire that back to one of the screws that mounts your PC power supply. 

Same exact problem with the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4, Steinberg UR22, and UR22C. Used a different cable for each (the supplied one)

[The Flying Sloth]

7 hours ago, Astroflash said:

Same exact problem with the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4, Steinberg UR22, and UR22C. Used a different cable for each (the supplied one)

It's coil whine from your GPU polluting the USB connection.
Solutions can range from putting your GPU in a different PCI slot, Interface in different USB connector, sticking aluminium foil over the USB controller (careful not to short anything) and powering your interface externally (get a USB charger and modify the cable so that only the data lines are connected to the PC while power is external, I've never done this but I've seen it recommended), changing out the GPU or using an audio interface that's externally powered as opposed to powered off the USB connection.

Sloth

[Astroflash]

22 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

It's coil whine from your GPU polluting the USB connection.
Solutions can range from putting your GPU in a different PCI slot, Interface in different USB connector, sticking aluminium foil over the USB controller (careful not to short anything) and powering your interface externally (get a USB charger and modify the cable so that only the data lines are connected to the PC while power is external, I've never done this but I've seen it recommended), changing out the GPU or using an audio interface that's externally powered as opposed to powered off the USB connection.

Sloth

The interface I'm using at the moment (UR22C) has a switch allowing me to select between a 5v DC input or USB for power. Do you think I can just use a 5V DC power lead and use the supplied USB C as a data cable to fix it?

 

Also I should note that my headphones plugged into the interface are completely silent if that makes a difference...?

[The Flying Sloth]

Just now, Astroflash said:

The interface I'm using at the moment (UR22C) has a switch allowing me to select between a 5v DC input or USB for power. Do you think I can just use a 5V DC power lead and use the supplied USB C as a data cable to fix it?

I can't say for sure whether it will fix it but given the information here it will likely help.
GPUs just get whine sometimes and it's really not great for those of us who like decent audio, I haven't had to worry about it since I got my UMC1820 but I remember the nightmare well.

[Astroflash]

5 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

I can't say for sure whether it will fix it but given the information here it will likely help.
GPUs just get whine sometimes and it's really not great for those of us who like decent audio, I haven't had to worry about it since I got my UMC1820 but I remember the nightmare well.

I assume it will help considering I found this in the manual:

 

"Even when the UR22C is connected to a computer, you can supply power via the [5V DC] port by external power supply if the [POWER SOURCE] switch is set to the [5V DC] side. This can be used to avoid power supply problems. For example, ground loops due to differences in voltage potential can occur if the device connected to the UR22C is using the same power outlet as the computer, and audio quality degradation can occur if the power supply from the computer’s USB port is not stable."

[The Flying Sloth]

Just now, Astroflash said:

I assume it will help considering I found this in the manual:

 

"Even when the UR22C is connected to a computer, you can supply power via the [5V DC] port by external power supply if the [POWER SOURCE] switch is set to the [5V DC] side. This can be used to avoid power supply problems. For example, ground loops due to differences in voltage potential can occur if the device connected to the UR22C is using the same power outlet as the computer, and audio quality degradation can occur if the power supply from the computer’s USB port is not stable."

Like I said, I can't say for sure but from the sounds of the issue you're having and the known solutions it's likely it will help.
I can't say for sure because hardware like this is very complicated and I'd be lying if I said I'd never been stumped by interference coming from an Audio Interface.

[Astroflash]

Just now, The Flying Sloth said:

Like I said, I can't say for sure but from the sounds of the issue you're having and the known solutions it's likely it will help.
I can't say for sure because hardware like this is very complicated and I'd be lying if I said I'd never been stumped by interference coming from an Audio Interface.

Worst comes to worst it's a cheap solution so we'll see. Thanks for your help.

[burh4n]

13 hours ago, Astroflash said:

The interface I'm using at the moment (UR22C)

Earlier you mentioned you're using balanced cables to connect to your speakers, but this looks like the UR22C only has single end output connectors. My interpretation (which has been updated since looking up info regarding this post) was that balanced cables implied an XLR connector, but now I understand that there is also a balanced 1/4" (6.3mm) single end connector. My question is, are you sure you're using balanced cables? Are you using adapters to go from single end to XLRs? Using adapter cables could cause an issue.

Additionally, since your speakers are active, you may want to try a ground lift plug (not recommended to keep this permanently) to see if the hum goes away, you could try it on one or both. If it is a grounding issue, this can help you determine the source. 

Definitely try changing to a separate power source for the UR22C first to see if that eliminates the issue. Since you mentioned the headphones don't have the same issue, I'm starting to think it might be between the UR22C and the speaker(s), but like @The Flying Sloth mentioned, these problems can be difficult to troubleshoot (in person) let alone via forum.

[anothertom]

The outputs on the UR22C are definitely unbalanced, the circuit diagram in the manual shows as much. Although the UR22 and the 4i4 do use balanced outputs, so long as you're using suitable cables. If you're getting a noisy signal when using an interface then it's pretty much got to be an unbalanced connection somewhere.

[The Flying Sloth]

9 hours ago, burh4n said:

-snip-

OP said it followed him through 3 interface changes, some of which were using balanced outputs leading me away from cable issues and since it's intermittent I was disinclined to believe it was a grounding issue on the speakers, that interference should really stay pretty solid. If it wasn't cables, speakers or interface the only other thing staying the same that would account for intermittent issues (that I could think of) is GPU whine but you're entirely right, issues like these are very painful to diagnose and it's near impossible to tell what's going on over text on a forum.

 

Having looked over the post again another possibility is your powerline ethernet plug, those are notorious for introducing noise to electrical circuits and may also explain why the noise was only audible during gaming.... But again, all I can do from here is guess. OP, that makes it your job to troubleshoot.

[Astroflash]

1 hour ago, The Flying Sloth said:

OP said it followed him through 3 interface changes, some of which were using balanced outputs leading me away from cable issues and since it's intermittent I was disinclined to believe it was a grounding issue on the speakers, that interference should really stay pretty solid. If it wasn't cables, speakers or interface the only other thing staying the same that would account for intermittent issues (that I could think of) is GPU whine but you're entirely right, issues like these are very painful to diagnose and it's near impossible to tell what's going on over text on a forum.

 

Having looked over the post again another possibility is your powerline ethernet plug, those are notorious for introducing noise to electrical circuits and may also explain why the noise was only audible during gaming.... But again, all I can do from here is guess. OP, that makes it your job to troubleshoot.

 

1 hour ago, anothertom said:

The outputs on the UR22C are definitely unbalanced, the circuit diagram in the manual shows as much. Although the UR22 and the 4i4 do use balanced outputs, so long as you're using suitable cables. If you're getting a noisy signal when using an interface then it's pretty much got to be an unbalanced connection somewhere.

Just to clarify, the buzzing is always audible through the line outputs (HS5s) when gaming but never audible through the headphone output.

 

Turning off the powerline doesn't help in any case.

 

I used balanced cables for the HS5s for all three different interfaces.

 

I have a 5V DC power lead coming tomorrow so will see if that fixes it.

[The Flying Sloth]

5 hours ago, anothertom said:

The outputs on the UR22C are definitely unbalanced, 

From what I can tell the UR22C is indeed capable of providing balanced output.

 

4 hours ago, Astroflash said:

I have a 5V DC power lead coming tomorrow so will see if that fixes it.

Turning off the powerline may not be enough to rule it out, unplugging from both ends would be the only real way but I'd much rather put my money on it being your GPU than that.

[Astroflash]

6 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

From what I can tell the UR22C is indeed capable of providing balanced output.

 

Turning off the powerline may not be enough to rule it out, unplugging from both ends would be the only real way but I'd much rather put my money on it being your GPU than that.

Unplugging both ends of the Powerline doesn't change a thing. 

[anothertom]

6 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

From what I can tell the UR22C is indeed capable of providing balanced output.

page 36, both ring and sleeve ties to ground on the main outputs.

[The Flying Sloth]

29 minutes ago, anothertom said:

page 36, both ring and sleeve ties to ground on the main outputs.

That diagram shows an Impedance Balanced output (resistor between the two connectors and page 37 says as much in the technical specifications), it's not true balancing but it's far better than an unbalanced connection.

[Astroflash]

9 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

That diagram shows an Impedance Balanced output (resistor between the two connectors and page 37 says as much in the technical specifications), it's not true balancing but it's far better than an unbalanced connection.

Ok, so having switched the power source to a 5V DC adapter, I can tell you that it has has not fixed the issue. It's exactly the same....Even on a completely separate wall socket. The noise is still definitely coming from the USB connection even when the wall socket is selected as power. However I am sure this is not an interface problem as I've got both the 4i4Gen3 and the UR22C in front of me with identical problems. Almost every component in my rig has been changed in the last few weeks anyway due to upgrading but the issue hasn't changed. It's something I can live with but it certainly is annoying.

 

I've pretty much exhausted all options of troubleshooting.

 

HS5s  - It happens in both so not a speaker fault, with two balanced cables. 

Interface - Happens in 3x different interfaces with 3x different USB cables.

System - Changed CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU/PSU in the last few weeks from upgrading

Power sockets - Removed powerline adapters, and powered the UR22C interface through its own wall socket.

USB Ports - Tried all the different ones on the back and front of case.

Power - Tried putting the HS5s on a different wall socket to the system.

There's literally nothing left..?

 

[The Flying Sloth]

3 minutes ago, Astroflash said:

-snip-

Damn, that's a shame,
Just for the sake of simplicity here's the old troubleshooting guide SSL used to refer people to, it's quite in-depth but perhaps it will help. 
The intermittent nature still leads me to believe it's the GPU though it's possible that I'm entirely overlooking something.
Sorry about that,

Sloth

[Astroflash]

Just now, The Flying Sloth said:

Damn, that's a shame,
Just for the sake of simplicity here's the old troubleshooting guide SSL used to refer people to, it's quite in-depth but perhaps it will help. 
The intermittent nature still leads me to believe it's the GPU though it's possible that I'm entirely overlooking something.
Sorry about that,

Sloth

It's not intermittent, only happens at high framerate/high GPU load, similar to GPU coil whine.

[The Flying Sloth]

1 minute ago, Astroflash said:

It's not intermittent, only happens at high framerate/high GPU load, similar to GPU coil whine.

Apologies, I was using the word to mean 'not continuous or steady' rather than 'at irregular intervals',
I do understand GPU load to be correlated with the noise as you previously stated. 

[Astroflash]

Update: Fixed by purchasing a hum destroyer.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_microhd_hd400.htm

 

Note you will obviously need an additional set of speaker cables.

[The Flying Sloth]

Glad that's sorted OP,

[ShearMe]

Ground Loop! What a pain. Glad you got it figured out.