Ryzen future-proofing

[SgtFilthyFrank]

Hello LTT Community,

 

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the upcoming Ryzen 4000 CPU's coming around October. AMD just released that x470 will not support the new 4000 series CPU's. This has made me reconsider how the 5000 series (or whatever they will call it) will be. I read somewhere that AMD already has plans to release 5nm architecture chips in 2021 so I'm thinking that x570 will be the last chipset that the PC community will need to buy in order to be future-proofed for 5000, while still being compatible with 3,4, and 5000 (again, whatever they call it) CPU's. What are your thoughts on the topic? 

[Shimejii]

x570/x670 are going to be the last chips on the AM4 Socket more then likely, unless they extend it beyond what they planned it. AM5 will more then likely be the 5000 series if they dont change the naming scheme. AM5 Will bring DDR5, and later PCIE 5 more then likely if its also a 3-4 year chipset. This will probably begin in 2021/2022. 

 

If you are buying ryzen now, the 4000 series is more then likely the last set of chips that will be on the AM4 platform, go into thinking that and you wont feel like they lied as they have stated 2020 was the last year they had planned for AM4 on the current list of plans.

[GDRRiley]

 5000 will likely be a whole new socket and chipset.

desktop 500 based on zen 4 is rumored to be DDR5

https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3574-hw-news-supercomputer-mining-malware-ddr5-amd

x570/b550 I would expect to only last till 400 desktop.

[Enderman]

4000 is the last generation that will be on AM4, so you can't "future proof" for the 5000 series at all.

All x570 and x670 motherboards will be the end of the line.

[atxcyclist]

Never hedge your bets on forward compatibility, you will likely be disappointed. As stated above, AMD promised AM4 inter-compatibility into 2020 and we're there now, 5000 chips will almost certainly be on a newer socket.

[Guest]

I "Future Proofed" when I bought a 2700x.

 

Are we in the future yet?

 

 

[Promosss]

Lol no, X570 won't support series 5000 CPUs, series 4000 will be the last. My thoughts are AMD shot themselves in the food here, no one that is using B350, B450, X370, X470 (aka the majority of the market) would be upgrading to series 4000 because they will have to buy a new motherboard that will be obsolete in one year. They (myself included) will more likely just wait for series 5000 and DDR5 memory and upgrade to a whole new socket all together. And for new series 4000 buyers? Well tough luck there too, you'll be forced to buy a motherboard that's gonna be immediately obsolete because there's no more upgrade path for you. Stupid move by AMD.

[atxcyclist]

13 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I "Future Proofed" when I bought a 2700x.

 

Are we in the future yet?

 

 

We must be, because my 2700x is still getting it done.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, SgtFilthyFrank said:

Hello LTT Community,

 

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the upcoming Ryzen 4000 CPU's coming around October. AMD just released that x470 will not support the new 4000 series CPU's. This has made me reconsider how the 5000 series (or whatever they will call it) will be. I read somewhere that AMD already has plans to release 5nm architecture chips in 2021 so I'm thinking that x570 will be the last chipset that the PC community will need to buy in order to be future-proofed for 5000, while still being compatible with 3,4, and 5000 (again, whatever they call it) CPU's. What are your thoughts on the topic? 

Ddr5 is coming out and that will require a whole new motherboard.  I do not think x570 will cover zen4.  It very well could be ddr5.

 

There is an argument that high core count ryzen2 is futureproof enough because it’s faster than what will go into the game consoles.   That has netted 5 years in the past.  Part of the issue is intel has done such a lousy job for so long that CPUs bought 10 years ago are still fast enough to be useful.  I consider it an anomaly and trying for a repeat of that is doomed to failure.

[Chiyawa]

As far as 'future proof is concerned, last time back in the 2000 until 2015, the CPU architecture is not really involving (I mean, yeah, they evolved, but at a slower pace). These days, with the advent of Ryzen CPU, motherboard just couldn't keep up with all the new CPU features. We have 'all of the sudden' unlocked PCIe Gen 4, DDR5 is coming its way, CPU evolved at a faster rate (from 14nm to 12 nm to 7nm in just 3 years with more and more features, and also, power routing and connection routing), so now the motherboard just couldn't keep up. Well, as a rule of thumb, It is advisable to purchase a motherboard that is design for current processor, It may not be future proof, but at least you still be able to sell off for a good price if you want to upgrade a new one.

[SgtFilthyFrank]

10 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

As far as 'future proof is concerned, last time back in the 2000 until 2015, the CPU architecture is not really involving (I mean, yeah, they evolved, but at a slower pace). These days, with the advent of Ryzen CPU, motherboard just couldn't keep up with all the new CPU features. We have 'all of the sudden' unlocked PCIe Gen 4, DDR5 is coming its way, CPU evolved at a faster rate (from 14nm to 12 nm to 7nm in just 3 years with more and more features, and also, power routing and connection routing), so now the motherboard just couldn't keep up. Well, as a rule of thumb, It is advisable to purchase a motherboard that is design for current processor, It may not be future proof, but at least you still be able to sell off for a good price if you want to upgrade a new one.

I agree with many of your points as they are very valid. But I find it funny that AMD is releasing a motherboard that will be dedicated to only the final series in their AM4 lineup. Seems like 4000 series will have to be pretty spectacular to buy a motherboard that will be technically "obsolete" (but not really) in one year, considering AMD is now known to release new products in their CPU, and soon to be GPU, lineups. 

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, SgtFilthyFrank said:

I agree with many of your points as they are very valid. But I find it funny that AMD is releasing a motherboard that will be dedicated to only the final series in their AM4 lineup. Seems like 4000 series will have to be pretty spectacular to buy a motherboard that will be technically "obsolete" (but not really) in one year, considering AMD is now known to release new products in their CPU, and soon to be GPU, lineups. 

It won’t be any worse than what intel does literally half the time.  No better either of course.  Perhaps we’re used to AMD being better than intel all the time.  I’m not happy about “sometimes as bad as” but it is what it is.

[SgtFilthyFrank]

54 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It won’t be any worse than what intel does literally half the time.  No better either of course.  Perhaps we’re used to AMD being better than intel all the time.  I’m not happy about “sometimes as bad as” but it is what it is.

Hey.... Atleast AMD came and gave Intel some competition so that we can be graced with cheaper and better performing components. AMD is even giving Nvidia a run considering they are forcing them to adopt a yearly/bi-yearly release of products (given that 3000 series Nvidia cards are around the corner). I feel like PC gaming will be cheaper than ever before being that 1st gen ryzen and a decent card (1070 or 1080) will be cut down in value with new AM5 and 3000 m series Nvidia. I'm planning on upgrading to a 2080 (or ti) when 3000 series Nvidia comes out, rather than buying new architecture. People will be able to find a decent 1070 or RX 580 (i7 or R7) rig for under $700, or atleast I hope they will. 

[spartaman64]

12 hours ago, Promosss said:

Lol no, X570 won't support series 5000 CPUs, series 4000 will be the last. My thoughts are AMD shot themselves in the food here, no one that is using B350, B450, X370, X470 (aka the majority of the market) would be upgrading to series 4000 because they will have to buy a new motherboard that will be obsolete in one year. They (myself included) will more likely just wait for series 5000 and DDR5 memory and upgrade to a whole new socket all together. And for new series 4000 buyers? Well tough luck there too, you'll be forced to buy a motherboard that's gonna be immediately obsolete because there's no more upgrade path for you. Stupid move by AMD.

you mean motherboard manufacturers shot amd in the foot. amd: ok 4000 series ryzen coming are you guys ready? motherboard manufacturers: theres not enough room on the bios memory chips amd: NANI

[Bombastinator]

31 minutes ago, SgtFilthyFrank said:

Hey.... Atleast AMD came and gave Intel some competition so that we can be graced with cheaper and better performing components. AMD is even giving Nvidia a run considering they are forcing them to adopt a yearly/bi-yearly release of products (given that 3000 series Nvidia cards are around the corner). I feel like PC gaming will be cheaper than ever before being that 1st gen ryzen and a decent card (1070 or 1080) will be cut down in value with new AM5 and 3000 m series Nvidia. I'm planning on upgrading to a 2080 (or ti) when 3000 series Nvidia comes out, rather than buying new architecture. People will be able to find a decent 1070 or RX 580 (i7 or R7) rig for under $700, or atleast I hope they will. 

Oh I don’t disagree.  Active duolopoly is much better than monopoly.  Or inactive duolopoly which is effectively monopoly.  This is part of the reason I’m willing to give them more benefit of the doubt than I otherwise would.  They’re the only thing keeping the wolf from the door.  

[Promosss]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:51 PM, spartaman64 said:

you mean motherboard manufacturers shot amd in the foot. amd: ok 4000 series ryzen coming are you guys ready? motherboard manufacturers: theres not enough room on the bios memory chips amd: NANI

Nope, as the bullshit bios excuse has been disproved by many tech youtubers. Many X370 and X470 mobos have huge bios chip. So the "not enough bios room" excuse is garbage.

[spartaman64]

3 hours ago, Promosss said:

Nope, as the bullshit bios excuse has been disproved by many tech youtubers. Many X370 and X470 mobos have huge bios chip. So the "not enough bios room" excuse is garbage.

yes some do and some dont and i wouldnt call 32MB huge. the problem is you are relying on consumers most of which probably dont even know what a bios is to do their research on the size of a motherboard's bios chip. if amd says x470 motherboards with a 32MB bios chip are compatible consumers will think ok amd said x470 motherboards are compatible and they buy a random one and get angry when its not. 

 

Im going through some x470 motherboards to try to determine how many have 16MB bios chips and how many have 32MB and its actually pretty hard to find for some of them

cant find it for the MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon but i see a note under one of their bios that support for bristol ridge cpus were removed due to size limitations so im guessing that means it has a 16MB bios chip

i cant find it for the x470 aorus gaming 7 either

 

if i cant find it the average consumer who doesnt know what any of this means have no chance

[thirdparty]

Dumb question: is 3700x future proofing enuf? Bought one and havent unseal it.... or should i return for ryzen 4000v

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, thirdparty said:

Dumb question: is 3700x future proofing enuf? Bought one and havent unseal it.... or should i return for ryzen 4000v

It should be enough to be a faster cpu than what is being put out for ps5/Scarlett.  That could buy up to 5 years, depending on what the console companies do.  There appear to be storage things though.  That particular issue I don’t understand well.  Cpu might not be enough.  To make it more fun ryzen 4000 only has 1 motherboard out atm that will work with it (x570).  Trying to predict the future is hard.  That whole 10 years of functional cpu that was produced by intel being unable to improve on sandy bridge in any meaningful way is unlikely to happen again soon.  If future proof means what sandy bridge did I suspect it isn’t doable period.

[Billy_Wellington]

On 5/12/2020 at 4:58 AM, Promosss said:

. And for new series 4000 buyers? Well tough luck there too, you'll be forced to buy a motherboard that's gonna be immediately obsolete because there's no more upgrade path for you. Stupid move by AMD.

Supposedly ryzen 4xxx will be good enough to last years until DDR5 matures and something like PCI-E 5.0 emerges

It kind of sucks to buy b450 board and see the news, but think about it the other way. There are like 70-80 dollar b450 boards that can run 3950x - is this really that bad?

This year both intel and amd will offer a platform that is the last of DDR4 for sure, last of socket dimensions we are used to as well. If you build a PC on z490(if rumors of Rocket Lake support are true) or x570 it will last you years and when you build a next time chances are even cases and power supplies will be different, not to mention cooler mounting kits.

[Dr0y]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:58 PM, Promosss said:

They (myself included) will more likely just wait for series 5000 and DDR5 memory and upgrade to a whole new socket all together.

I was thinking about that and some video I saw was mentioning that first brew of new memory is usually on par or even slower than the best of the last gen as it takes time for it to mature.  Maybe I should just get the best of the last am4 and go with that through 3 or 4 years ... maybe 5 or 6 with what I'm doing ... or maybe not.  It's hard to decide what to do and when to upgrade.  One thing for sure is that there's always new stuff that's about to release and by waiting for it you end up never upgrading. 

 

Wonder how long it will take for the gpu to be able to saturate the pci-e 4.0

[SgtFilthyFrank]

16 hours ago, Dr0y said:

I was thinking about that and some video I saw was mentioning that first brew of new memory is usually on par or even slower than the best of the last gen as it takes time for it to mature.  Maybe I should just get the best of the last am4 and go with that through 3 or 4 years ... maybe 5 or 6 with what I'm doing ... or maybe not.  It's hard to decide what to do and when to upgrade.  One thing for sure is that there's always new stuff that's about to release and by waiting for it you end up never upgrading. 

 

Wonder how long it will take for the gpu to be able to saturate the pci-e 4.0

I was also gonna ask that in a seperate thread but I can't find exact bandwidth for PCIe 3.0. the new 3000 RTX cards are said to get close to maxing PCIe 3.0 x16 at around 18gb/s. So I guess PCIe 3.0 x16 is 20gb/s or so? Regardless, I think upgrading to 4.0 will be inevitable from now on considering even Intel is going with 4.0. 

[Dr0y]

Next gen intel won't be 4.0 

 

And from what I read on the forum it's estimated that the 3080 ti won't be able to saturate pcie 3.0 since the 2080 ti barely saturate the pcie 3.0 x8 ... unless the 3080 ti is 2x more powerful than the 2080 ti which would be really surprising. 

 

The only thing pcie 4.0 is useful for are ssd

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, Dr0y said:

Next gen intel won't be 4.0 

 

And from what I read on the forum it's estimated that the 3080 ti won't be able to saturate pcie 3.0 since the 2080 ti barely saturate the pcie 3.0 x8 ... unless the 3080 ti is 2x more powerful than the 2080 ti which would be really surprising. 

 

The only thing pcie 4.0 is useful for are ssd

The only chip we’ve gotten a look at is amphere in the form of only some info regarding the a-100.  What they apparently did was massively increase the machine learning component of rtx.  I suppose if there was an app that buried both the rtx and non rtx sections of the card they could come pretty close to saturating pcie3.  I can’t think of what could do that though.

[Dr0y]

7 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The only chip we’ve gotten a look at is amphere in the form of only some info regarding the a-100.  What they apparently did was massively increase the machine learning component of rtx.  I suppose if there was an app that buried both the rtx and non rtx sections of the card they could come pretty close to saturating pcie3.  I can’t think of what could do that though.

Agreed, maybe they did something amazing and unexpected and it will saturate the pcie 3.0 for the high end cards ... or they pulled an rx 5500 xt in their lower tier cards and that's why they make them pcie 4.0.