GB 2070 Super underperforming?

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, LeSpook said:

Okay well, I still have one question.

In unigine superposition, I got a good score, better than my friend's (with the 7700). And my CPU was only at 30% usage. No bottleneck here. So it might just be CPU intensive games. But that doesnt explain the difference between me and my friend's FPS.

I'm telling you, more threads = better for games now. Even my i7 sees 80-90% usage in games

[tomtompoperdom]

2 hours ago, LeSpook said:

I looked the combo up, and nowhere did someone say this would bottleneck.

Your CPU has 18% bottleneck. The cpu is to weak for the gpu. Its only an i5. No good for gaming these days

[Stockholmes]

2 hours ago, 5x5 said:

I'm telling you, more threads = better for games now. Even my i7 sees 80-90% usage in games

Are you completely sure? From what I've seen, games don't really take advantage of hyperthreading. There are many videos on YT showcasing this. In any case, i5 8600k is more powerful than i7 7700k. More cores are always more powerful than hyperthreading, if you have 4c/8t its going to be slower than a 6c/6t. As far as I understand it, atleast. Depends on the clockspeeds ofcourse, but as a general guideline. I think hyperthreading gives a 30% boost under ideal conditions, and that's not games. You might get that when rendering etc. but not with video games. So I think you're wrong if you're saying that 7700k is more powerful than 8600k. That's just not true. But maybe you weren't saying that.

[Stockholmes]

20 minutes ago, tomtompoperdom said:

Your CPU has 18% bottleneck. The cpu is to weak for the gpu. Its only an i5. No good for gaming these days

His processor is pretty heavily overclocked though, I wouldn't expect a 8600k OC'd to 4.8 GHz to be a bottleneck for a 2070S. Atleast not 18%. Some games are CPU bound, ofcourse, but the majority are not. His processor should match the GPU quite well. What is weird is that his friend with an inferior processor is getting better FPS. 

 

OP, can you tell your full specs? You're not running a single stick of RAM for example? That would cut your performance a lot.

[5x5]

42 minutes ago, Stockholmes said:

Are you completely sure? From what I've seen, games don't really take advantage of hyperthreading. There are many videos on YT showcasing this. In any case, i5 8600k is more powerful than i7 7700k. More cores are always more powerful than hyperthreading, if you have 4c/8t its going to be slower than a 6c/6t. As far as I understand it, atleast. Depends on the clockspeeds ofcourse, but as a general guideline. I think hyperthreading gives a 30% boost under ideal conditions, and that's not games. You might get that when rendering etc. but not with video games. So I think you're wrong if you're saying that 7700k is more powerful than 8600k. That's just not true. But maybe you weren't saying that.

Of course I am sure - I can observe all the available threads at 90% utilization according to multiple software in Battlefield on my system. 8 threads on the 7700K > 6 threads on the 8600K.

EDIT: Highlighted part used to be true 10 years ago. It's not anymore. Hence why the OP is in this situation. HT gives you a 20% boost, SMT a 30% boost due to architectural differences. Thing is, this boost is magnified when the i5 is maxed and cannot handle anymore simultaneous requests (something many modern games are doing in an effort to optimize and parallelize workloads. 

I am indeed saying that. For gaming, a 7700K will perform better than an 8600K in most games.

[Stockholmes]

20 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Of course I am sure - I can observe all the available threads at 90% utilization according to multiple software in Battlefield on my system. 8 threads on the 7700K > 6 threads on the 8600K.

EDIT: Highlighted part used to be true 10 years ago. It's not anymore. Hence why the OP is in this situation. HT gives you a 20% boost, SMT a 30% boost due to architectural differences. Thing is, this boost is magnified when the i5 is maxed and cannot handle anymore simultaneous requests (something many modern games are doing in an effort to optimize and parallelize workloads. 

I am indeed saying that. For gaming, a 7700K will perform better than an 8600K in most games.

These benchmarks would like to differ: 

 

What do you gather from this? I see equal performance, or even worse with hyperthreading on. So I think you're wrong, sadly. Although I would say that games will start using/benefiting from hyperthreading when the new consoles launch. They have hyperthreading enabled so it would be stupid to not use the capability, right? But games of today still don't do that, probably in part because consoles don't either. And that's going to change going forward. Then again I don't know much at all about these things, just thought I remembered some videos comparing processors with / without hyperthreading in games and that they found there was practically no difference, or in some cases even lower FPS with hyperthreading on.

 

 

[5x5]

30 minutes ago, Stockholmes said:

These benchmarks would like to differ: 

 

What do you gather from this? I see equal performance, or even worse with hyperthreading on. So I think you're wrong, sadly. Although I would say that games will start using/benefiting from hyperthreading when the new consoles launch. They have hyperthreading enabled so it would be stupid to not use the capability, right? But games of today still don't do that, probably in part because consoles don't either. And that's going to change going forward. Then again I don't know much at all about these things, just thought I remembered some videos comparing processors with / without hyperthreading in games and that they found there was practically no difference, or in some cases even lower FPS with hyperthreading on.

 

 

My own CPUs and the CPUs I have access to at work. That video not only a known fake but also dead wrong in 2020 with modern games. Hyperthread is vital in 2020 and games make active use of it. And the OP's bottleneck is a prime example of it.

[TheDankKoosh]

Higher core/thread count is indeed better up to 16 threads, but a 4.8ghz 8600k should be plenty for a 2070s in nearly any game, your cpu may not actually be clocking that high, possibly due to heat issues. Download HWinfo and monitor stuff while playing intensive games https://www.hwinfo.com/

Otherwise it might be some other factors that I can't say anything on until I have more information

[TheDankKoosh]

23 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

My own CPUs and the CPUs I have access to at work. That video not only a known fake but also dead wrong in 2020 with modern games. Hyperthread is vital in 2020 and games make active use of it. And the OP's bottleneck is a prime example of it.

Dude, you're just gaslighting at this point, the 8600k either performs within error margins or a bit better than a 7700k, hyperthreading is not essential for any game, and there's only a few that really benefit from it, even the most cpu demanding games right now (SotTR, AC, ect.) will run perfectly fine on an 8600k especially so if overclocked. Look for the myriad of other cpu benchmarks on Youtube if you don't want to believe that particular one.

[5x5]

1 hour ago, TheDankKoosh said:

Dude, you're just gaslighting at this point, the 8600k either performs within error margins or a bit better than a 7700k, hyperthreading is not essential for any game, and there's only a few that really benefit from it, even the most cpu demanding games right now (SotTR, AC, ect.) will run perfectly fine on an 8600k especially so if overclocked. Look for the myriad of other cpu benchmarks on Youtube if you don't want to believe that particular one.

I believe my own i7 and my coworker's i5 - pretty much have the hardware in front of me during the day. Do you expect me to deny reality in front of my eyes and blindly lie to someone? I will not. And based on the OP and his friend's results - they have the exact same data as me. Extrapolation - the 7700(K) is a better solution for modern games due to the extra threads.

[TheDankKoosh]

16 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

I believe my own i7 and my coworker's i5 - pretty much have the hardware in front of me during the day. Do you expect me to deny reality in front of my eyes and blindly lie to someone? I will not. And based on the OP and his friend's results - they have the exact same data as me. Extrapolation - the 7700(K) is a better solution for modern games due to the extra threads.

I believe that you are denying reality due to your own bias and have not compared one another side by side with identical test conditions, anyone that has done so can tell you that an 8600k will overall outperform a 7700k by a small margin since intel hyperthreading is fairly inefficient, you could make the argument with AMD SMT, but this argument holds no ground since every independent reviewer has found that the 8600k is better. Here's another review that you'll probably call fake, yet it shows yet again that the 8600k is marginally better