Budget Ryzen Sleeper Build... in an Xbox 360!

[Ross Siggers]

@ShadowChaser Personally I think a 120W peak under load isn't doable with the specs you're aiming for. Unless it's a gaming load, not a combined system load? And maybe undervolted? With a 65W chip and a 6-pin graphics card, you might already be drawing more than 120W...

[ShadowChaser]

4 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

@ShadowChaser Personally I think a 120W peak under load isn't doable with the specs you're aiming for. Unless it's a gaming load, not a combined system load? And maybe undervolted? With a 65W chip and a 6-pin graphics card, you might already be drawing more than 120W...

It was just the original plan - right now it's looking like I'll budget 45W for the CPU and 85W for the GPU, both are targets which should be doable with the components I've chosen. add in another ~25W for other components and it'll likely land around 150-160W peak and probably around 120W in game. That's the hope, at least  

[Fatih19]

7 hours ago, ShadowChaser said:

It was just the original plan - right now it's looking like I'll budget 45W for the CPU and 85W for the GPU, both are targets which should be doable with the components I've chosen. add in another ~25W for other components and it'll likely land around 150-160W peak and probably around 120W in game. That's the hope, at least  

So are you still going to wait for the 3300X?

[ShadowChaser]

1 hour ago, Fatih19 said:

So are you still going to wait for the 3300X?

Got the 3600 which will perform just as well in games if not better - the 3300x/3100 was purely a cost optimized choice. I got some extra cash and so I got the 3600 - for my workflow it'll be much better as well!

[ShadowChaser]

Here's another incremental update while I wait for parts. I'm starting to see a trend here...

 

Anyway! First things first I ripped off the old VRM block and stuck some cheapo aluminum heatsinks on the MOSFETs, did the same for the super i/o chip, and removed the decorative plate on the chipset heatsink. I swear this is the only B450 board with a real chipset heatsink, though the B450 doesn't heat up like X570 does. It totes boots, yo!

Spoiler

It looks a little odd, doesn't it, missing all those red accents?

Heatsinks are attached with thermal tape, but I'm not sure how effective that will be. Thankfully I'm downclocking an already power efficient CPU.

 

It's alive, it's alive!!

Damn does the system look minuscule next to a 140mm fan

 

I began throwing together a temporary motherboard mount that didn't involve LEGO so I could make my final rear I/O measurements. Rapid prototyping is a godsend, seriously. Though my modelling could probably be better.

Spoiler

Late night modelling pays dividends! (Yes that's Markiplier, sue me)

 

Currently using PETG, which is fine for the base plate, but the standoffs will either be nylon or some metal. Not sure yet.

 

Looks tight but the top panel does close! I had to shave off a teeny bit of plastic to make it happen but it fits!

In a bizarre stroke of luck, the M.2 slot is actually visible through the original top vent, so I imagine even without active airflow it should be fine unless I really grill it hard.

 

Cutting away the rear for the I/O was (un)surprisingly difficult. I think it turned out ok, but the chassis definitely didn't help with it's geometry where I needed the audio outputs

To be fair the worst of it is hidden behind the outer plastic shell, phew! 

Spoiler

Drilling out the hard part first - the audio jacks just so happened to line up with the curved part of the chassis  

4

 

The finishing is terrible, I know, but everything sits nicely now!

 

And from the outside it doesn't look half bad, with enough room for me to design a custom rear i/o plate. Unfortunately it looks like I will have to cut away some of the original plastic if I want access to all my ports. Not too shabby though!

 

And just to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I semi-attached the front panel and spun up the intake fans. The airflow path I envisioned does indeed work, however the amount of airflow I was getting was frankly terrible. I will have to investigate and see if this amount of air will be enough to cool even my CPU.

 

I mean, it still looks like an Xbox 360, doesn't it?

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

The case is going to be laid down in the final form, right? Or at least I imagined so given the server style cooling. I can't tell if the motherboard is in the top or bottom half, but it would be cool to have the pre-exsisting side vent of the case above the cpu cooler to draw in even more air.

[ShadowChaser]

2 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

The case is going to be laid down in the final form, right? Or at least I imagined so given the server style cooling. I can't tell if the motherboard is in the top or bottom half, but it would be cool to have the pre-exsisting side vent of the case above the cpu cooler to draw in even more air.

Yes, it'll be laid flat in its final form. The motherboard sits in the glossy half and extending about ~1" into the matte side. That vent will be used for extra GPU cooling, most likely, if I strap a thin 80mm fan in there  

[HarleyC]

Dude, this is wild. i cant wait to see it finished.

[ShadowChaser]

Now that I've seen the benchmarks of the new Ryzen 3 CPUs, I must say that they do look amazing for the budget gamer! The 3300X is a killer deal at $120

I still think that $170 for a 3600 was the right decision for myself, but I might have to do a deep dive into thermal performance of the 3300X vs what I have currently as the cooler is very much a limiting factor.

 

I've also placed an order for a 1660 Ti, which I know is not the 1650S I originally thought I'd go with. However EVGA's 1660 Ti SC Ultra was at a killer price ($220 after tax and s/h) and it should be good to go with its very simple heatpipe layout and excellent performance. I think this system is turning out to be quite the portable powerhouse, though at quite the cost penalty, having spent $100 over what I originally intended to. I hope it was worth it!

[Fatih19]

1 minute ago, ShadowChaser said:

Now that I've seen the benchmarks of the new Ryzen 3 CPUs, I must say that they do look amazing for the budget gamer! The 3300X is a killer deal at $120

I still think that $170 for a 3600 was the right decision for myself, but I might have to do a deep dive into thermal performance of the 3300X vs what I have currently as the cooler is very much a limiting factor.

 

I've also placed an order for a 1660 Ti, which I know is not the 1650S I originally thought I'd go with. However EVGA's 1660 Ti SC Ultra was at a killer price ($220 after tax and s/h) and it should be good to go with its very simple heatpipe layout and excellent performance. I think this system is turning out to be quite the portable powerhouse, though at quite the cost penalty, having spent $100 over what I originally intended to. I hope it was worth it!

I feel like you won't have that many performance difference in games if you're using a 1660 Ti.

[ShadowChaser]

1 minute ago, Fatih19 said:

I feel like you won't have that many performance difference in games if you're using a 1660 Ti.

This is also meant to do some video editing and CAD work when I need it to, and I'm quite the multitasker when it comes to just having a ton of applications open, so in my case the extra cores would benefit myself a lot! If I had gone with a 1600AF I would have lost some single threaded performance, which isn't ideal since many of the games I do play are e-sporty and meant for high refresh, while the others are very much sight-seeing AAA-esque titles.

 

I'm hoping that this will be a killer LAN PC, and seeing that the new MS flight sim is coming soon I want this to be able to handle it! Though if I had really thought about it I probably would have gone for the 3300X if it meant doubling my RAM to 16GB

[Fatih19]

6 minutes ago, ShadowChaser said:

This is also meant to do some video editing and CAD work when I need it to, and I'm quite the multitasker when it comes to just having a ton of applications open, so in my case the extra cores would benefit myself a lot! If I had gone with a 1600AF I would have lost some single threaded performance, which isn't ideal since many of the games I do play are e-sporty and meant for high refresh, while the others are very much sight-seeing AAA-esque titles.

 

I'm hoping that this will be a killer LAN PC, and seeing that the new MS flight sim is coming soon I want this to be able to handle it! Though if I had really thought about it I probably would have gone for the 3300X if it meant doubling my RAM to 16GB

For video editing and CAD, I think you should still double your RAM, they need memories.

[ShadowChaser]

Just now, Fatih19 said:

For video editing and CAD, I think you should still double your RAM, they need memories.

oh I'm sure it'll happen at some point, but surprisingly I don't need it for my work. It would be nice for sure but all I have to do is close every other application XD

I'm just waiting for better memory prices, which isn't going to happen for a while at this rate.

[ShadowChaser]

10 hours ago, HarleyC said:

Dude, this is wild. i cant wait to see it finished.

Me neither! The wait for parts is killing me... >_>

[Ross Siggers]

Not to mention ram is easily upgradeable down the line, to get the build together/designed the amount of memory isn't as important. At this stage at least. 

[ShadowChaser]

Here's another incremental update as I wait for parts!

 

Decided to crack down on my power and thermal budget today and spent about 90 minutes playing around with the 3600. I ended up settling at 3.9Ghz all core @ 1.1v and with the stock fan strapped to the heatsink this thing sits at a cool 65C under load on open air, while also drawing about ~50W in Cinebench and ~55W with Prime95. I'm very happy with this result, though I wish I could have more granular control over specific core load clocks like I can on my 8700K. If I could bump the clock up to 4Ghz+ while only loading 2 cores that would be swell  but hey, 3524 in Cinebench R20 ain't shabby for this kind of power draw!

[ShadowChaser]

@Ross Siggers I saw that you depinned the DVI connector when you were going through your Dreamcast Build on one of the previous GPUs. I need to do that with my incoming 1660 Ti as it conflicts (by literally 1mm!) with the motherboard rear audio, which I've confirmed is already as short as it can be. Got any pointers for a guy with a cheap iron? I've attempted to depin the gpio of an rpi and that's the closest thing I've done.

[ShadowChaser]

Boy oh boy I've gotten through the first half of finals and I'm too stressed to think about the second half so why don't we work on an Xbox, eh?

 

I've got a backlog of parts to go through at this point - the HD-Plex 200 arrived and performs wonderfully, staying cool enough to touch even after I put in the 1660 Ti, and it barely fits with a fraction of a millimeter to spare

Spoiler

It's a pretty little thing, ain't it?

 

Look at how tight that fitment is!

 

In fact, once the mobo is tightened down I'm pretty sure it touches  

 

I got better, fasterer RAM, scoring a set of 2x4GB 3000 CL15 memory locally for a reasonable price. I've already spent too much on this thing already and my wallet is really hurting. At least it overclocked to 3200 CL16 without any problems, though 3600 CL18 proved unattainable at stock voltages.

Spoiler

Yay picture of a box

 

Though the system does look better with matching sticks, at least

 

The EVGA GTX 1660 Ti SC Ultra Gaming has a name that's far too long but it was priced well and under my max TDP so I snagged it. I must say that the heatsink is very appropriate for this build as pretty much only the memory will interfere, and not by much at that!

Spoiler

That finstack looks rather stunning, but I wish the support structure for the fans and shroud was removable  

 

I also benched the system with timespy and ran some stability tests in heaven - the GPU even without its shroud never went above 60C at 80% power draw. I didn't bother tuning it as that'll have to take the thermals of the chassis into consideration once I start undervolting. Curiously enough it still drew ~105W at 80%, I'm glad I didn't run it at 100% as it would've most likely overloaded the PSU.

 

I built a low profile 90 degree pcie power cable but due to a brain fart I made it as a 6-pin and not an 8-pin, so modding of the gpu will be necessary

Rather than multiple 20 ga wires running into a plug I soldered the mini fit jrs. straight to a length of 14 ga silicone wire for ease of management. Someone who actually knows about this, please tell me how to do it properly so I don't burn my house down!

Spoiler

It's janky, yes, but this is the most elegant solution I could come up with that didn't involve me spending another $20+tax

 

It's so much smaller than a regular plug, as compared to what the HD-Plex ships with:

 

In fact, it only protrudes 4mm from the top of the card!

 

Here's the real problem with my gpu choice: as I found out, I really should not have gotten a card with a DVI port.

It interferes with the audio outputs of the motherboard by a hair (1-2,mm), but there's no room to shave on either. Therefore one has to go, and I think it's the DVI that's gotta go

Spoiler

This cross section makes it look worse than it actually is due to the mobo being slightly higher than where it is in the model, but the interference is there nonetheless

 

Here's some general housekeeping that I did as well:

I bought and fitted two usb ports to the front and found that the spacing lined up fairly close, but the housing for the USB ports are just too thicc and would interfere with the GPU

I removed the housing around the onboard wifi card and I'm thinking of ways to route the antennae to an internal location that would still give me good reception

 

At the moment I'm waiting on a few more parts: 

Slimmer front usb ports

PCIe extension cable and 90 degree adapter

Fan splitters/controller

Standoffs

and who knows what else I missed

 

On a wholly unrelated note, the NCase M1 I ordered has arrived and I can finally retire my trusty (but now full of holes) Node 202!

Spoiler

It still is cramped in here, dang.

 

And finally, here's a view of the mobo on top of the gpu! I think if I need extra cooling for the GPU I could strap extra 60mm fans to the exposed part of the heatsink, drawing air up and out.

Spoiler

I think this gives a pretty good idea of how much room I have left to work with.

 

I'm really excited and nervous at the same time about how the airflow will be like in the case - I've yet to test thermals with it boxed up!

 

 

As always, comments and suggestions are much appreciated! Now if you'll excuse me, I need to help myself to my 4th coffee of the day...

[ShadowChaser]

Still waiting on that PCIe extension...

But I've been keeping busy in the meantime.

 

I've voided the warranty on my GPU by removing the DVI connector and a few fins

Spoiler

Now it sits where it needs to be, with the display outs right where I want them

 

Not my best handiwork there but I had to flushcut away as much as I could before breaking the rest by fatiguing them, not to mention dremelling through the steel support soldered to each fin.

 

The memory fits like a glove, and I'm seriously hoping the 90 degree pcie adapter I ordered is low profile enough...

 

And I marked out and cut out the graphics outputs from the GPU

Spoiler

I should be able to mask what will undoubtedly be rough cuts 

 

The plastic shell has to be shaved down to allow for access to certain ports on the rear i/o and gpu.

To think that an hour of chiselling with a utility blade only got me this far...

And I've yet to design a rear faceplate for the motheroard i/o...

 

It's also been made obvious that there won't be enough passive airflow over the gpu to keep it cool enough, even with the underclock, so I'm looking to remedy that with moar fans. Probably of the 40 or 50mm variety.

Spoiler

While a 60mm fan does technically fit once the pcie cable is in I'll be down to 50mm or even 40mm. Not fun...

 

Most of the usable space on the old vent will be taken up be the aforementioned riser cable, so I'm starting to feel a little stressed about cooling that gpu in there. I don't think I can tame 100W of heat with the 40mm exhausts in the chassis so I'll need to get creative.

 

That concludes what I've done more or less up to this point. It's slow going, I know, but sitting here twiddling my thumbs isn't going to make the deliveries faster...

So playing the waiting game it is  

[Fatih19]

@ShadowChaser Do you have any updates on this? I'm afraid you've finished the build but forgot to post them here.

[ShadowChaser]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:33 AM, Fatih19 said:

@ShadowChaser Do you have any updates on this? I'm afraid you've finished the build but forgot to post them here.

I unfortunately don't

apart from some preliminary testing determining that thermals were less than ideal, I stopped working on this as I was working on moving to college.

I guess all that matters is that it works it just doesn't work well

 

What's happened since the last update:

New PCIe extension came - it works but was bulkier than expected

Booted the system in the xbox with just the 3 60mm intakes, idled pretty warm and was about as loud as the original xbox 360

Played some games that weren't too stressful - CPU hit the mid/high 80s and GPU was borderline at 90ish degrees

 

So sorry to disappoint you, but I guess it was wishful thinking to think that this would be an amazing performer given the terrible cooling that I 'engineered'  

[Fatih19]

5 hours ago, ShadowChaser said:

I unfortunately don't

apart from some preliminary testing determining that thermals were less than ideal, I stopped working on this as I was working on moving to college.

I guess all that matters is that it works it just doesn't work well

 

What's happened since the last update:

New PCIe extension came - it works but was bulkier than expected

Booted the system in the xbox with just the 3 60mm intakes, idled pretty warm and was about as loud as the original xbox 360

Played some games that weren't too stressful - CPU hit the mid/high 80s and GPU was borderline at 90ish degrees

 

So sorry to disappoint you, but I guess it was wishful thinking to think that this would be an amazing performer given the terrible cooling that I 'engineered'  

Ah, alright. May your next project be more successful.

[Grabhanem]

I wonder if one of those server style sleeved PCIe extensions would work better than a flat ribbon airflow wise? Also, would adding cardboard/3D printed shrouds help cooling? I'd suspect the airflow is taking the path of least resistance through all the empty space and missing the heatsinks.

[ShadowChaser]

3 minutes ago, Grabhanem said:

I wonder if one of those server style sleeved PCIe extensions would work better than a flat ribbon airflow wise? Also, would adding cardboard/3D printed shrouds help cooling? I'd suspect the airflow is taking the path of least resistance through all the empty space and missing the heatsinks.

The cpu cooler needed a shroud when I was just channeling air over it, but I eventually realized that there was enough clearance for the fan to fit and not ruin the airflow. The spacing between the motherboard and gpu means that the bottom half of the gpu heatsink does most of the work, though I think for this to be most optimal I'd either have to place a fan flowing air down on the heatsink or flip the exhausts. Either way, it would make the system even louder and I'd rather just take the thermal penalty and underclock both parts some more.

[Grabhanem]

1 minute ago, ShadowChaser said:

The cpu cooler needed a shroud when I was just channeling air over it, but I eventually realized that there was enough clearance for the fan to fit and not ruin the airflow. The spacing between the motherboard and gpu means that the bottom half of the gpu heatsink does most of the work, though I think for this to be most optimal I'd either have to place a fan flowing air down on the heatsink or flip the exhausts. Either way, it would make the system even louder and I'd rather just take the thermal penalty and underclock both parts some more.

How much thiccness space do you have around your fans? Noctua makes some VERY impressive thick 40 and 60mm fans that are quite quiet as well (although a full set of them is not exactly cheap.)