Budget Ryzen Sleeper Build... in an Xbox 360!

[ShadowChaser]

I've always been an SFF and 'bang-for-buck' enthusiast, and now that I have more down time than usual, I thought I'd build a PC that would scratch both itches. Money is tight, at least in terms of what I can spend, and of course SFF only makes that problem worse. Either way, I want to make a decent sleeper build that's small enough to just tuck into a bag and travel with. I've been thinking about this project for a long time, and I'm finally committed to making it happen. So, without further ado, here's the list of parts I'm planning on using:

 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jC7kmg

CPU: Ryzen 5 1600AF ($85.00)

CPU Cooler: Reeven Vanxie 24.82 CFM CPU Cooler  ($19.99) 
Motherboard: MSI B450I GAMING PLUS AC Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard  ($119.99) 
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 512 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($49.99) 
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER 4 GB AERO ITX OC Video Card 
PSU: HDPLEX 200W DC-ATX ($62.50)
Total: $417.46

 

The parts in italics are ones that I still am deciding on, and the others I either already have or have already purchased. In light of the upcoming 3rd Gen Ryzen 3 processors I will likely wait on the CPU purchase until those are available. You may have noticed the PSU choice, and that's because of the sleeper part of this build.

 

It will be built in this:

 

Now, now, I know that Xbox PCs are commonplace, but while this isn't my first USFF build, it will be the first one in which I'll have to mod my case. I think it'll be a fun and interesting experience, at least I certainly hope so. I was inspired by the Dreamcast Sleeper Build done by @Ross Siggers but I'm definitely not going to attempt something as ludicrous as that, so the Xbox 360 E was my first choice, given that it's the only console I own and rather out of date. It also only works half the time so it's about time to retire the poor thing.

 

At 4.4L externally it's already the smallest of the 360 lineup, and at just over 3.3L on the inside I really wish Microsoft had been wiser with their use of the space inside.

Here you can see visually that, from the outside, there appears to be plenty of room with the ITX sized component choice.

Spoiler

 

But on the inside, once that pretty plastic shell has been removed, erm, it's rather tighter than I'd like.

Spoiler

 

Regardless, on paper there's enough room for the parts and I'm sure that if I imagine it hard enough, it must come true!

Time to break out the Dremel.

Onwards!

[Belac F]

sounds epic! btw gigabyte has a lineup of nvidia Gpus that are only 170 mm long and are pretty cheap compared to similar gpus. I use their 2060 and despite only one fan, it OCs great!

[ShadowChaser]

10 minutes ago, Belac F said:

sounds epic! btw gigabyte has a lineup of nvidia Gpus that are only 170 mm long and are pretty cheap compared to similar gpus. I use their 2060 and despite only one fan, it OCs great!

I think I've looked at a few of them - I'll explain why I chose the GPU I chose in an upcoming post. Maybe you or someone else could tell me why it's a bad choice then XD

I see you're part of the Xbox PC gang as well, cheers to that!

[ShadowChaser]

The plan is pretty simple, on paper: Build the most efficient <200W System I can for a reasonable price. That's why I chose the parts I did choose.

 

1600 AF: When I first came up with this idea this is by far the best bang-for-buck CPU available, but now with the R3 3100 on the horizon for $15 more MSRP I must wonder if it'll fare better in this regard.

 

MSI B450I Gaming Plus AC: This is a rather odd choice given that the Asrock B450I board consistently retails for ~10-20 USD less, but this board gives me better VRMs for down the road when I might have a chance to swap in something with more punch. Though at that point I'd probably have to remove the system from the chassis for thermal reasons

 

Reeven Vanxie: I'm sure most of y'all have never even heard of this wimpy little cooler. Now, let me tell you this. This is the only, ONLY, AM4 compatible CPU heatsink with a finstack capable of being oriented parallel with the memory slots under 40mm. I plan to have air flowing through the chassis from one end to the other like a server for cooling purposes so this was the only thing that fit the bill. Any cooler that had fins taller than 35mm I had to rule out entirely so my options were limited.

 

1650 Super: Now this is the one that I'm having doubts about. In the power envelope I'm working with it really looks like the only option, save for maybe a undervolted 1660-series card. I chose the MSI Aero variant for the same reasons as above. I plan to strip down the shroud and remove the fan, and just 3D print airflow guides for both the CPU and GPU.

This is the airflow plan:

Spoiler

 

 

The left side of the 360 will be used as intake, with triple 60mm fans drawing in air through the old side vents which will have to be enlarged. On the right side triple 40mm exhausts will help keep airflow true while also making sure the system stays positive. The vents on that side will have to be enlarged as well. 

[Fatih19]

9 hours ago, ShadowChaser said:

The plan is pretty simple, on paper: Build the most efficient <200W System I can for a reasonable price. That's why I chose the parts I did choose.

 

1600 AF: When I first came up with this idea this is by far the best bang-for-buck CPU available, but now with the R3 3100 on the horizon for $15 more MSRP I must wonder if it'll fare better in this regard.

 

MSI B450I Gaming Plus AC: This is a rather odd choice given that the Asrock B450I board consistently retails for ~10-20 USD less, but this board gives me better VRMs for down the road when I might have a chance to swap in something with more punch. Though at that point I'd probably have to remove the system from the chassis for thermal reasons

 

Reeven Vanxie: I'm sure most of y'all have never even heard of this wimpy little cooler. Now, let me tell you this. This is the only, ONLY, AM4 compatible CPU heatsink with a finstack capable of being oriented parallel with the memory slots under 40mm. I plan to have air flowing through the chassis from one end to the other like a server for cooling purposes so this was the only thing that fit the bill. Any cooler that had fins taller than 35mm I had to rule out entirely so my options were limited.

 

1650 Super: Now this is the one that I'm having doubts about. In the power envelope I'm working with it really looks like the only option, save for maybe a undervolted 1660-series card. I chose the MSI Aero variant for the same reasons as above. I plan to strip down the shroud and remove the fan, and just 3D print airflow guides for both the CPU and GPU.

 

This is the airflow plan:

 

The left side of the 360 will be used as intake, with triple 60mm fans drawing in air through the old side vents which will have to be enlarged. On the right side triple 40mm exhausts will help keep airflow true while also making sure the system stays positive. The vents on that side will have to be enlarged as well. 

I think considering lower thread count and more efficient Zen 2 architecture, it'd fare better in terms of thermal. Might be worth looking into.

[ShadowChaser]

3 hours ago, Fatih19 said:

I think considering lower thread count and more efficient Zen 2 architecture, it'd fare better in terms of thermal. Might be worth looking into.

I'm certainly waiting for thermal and power details once the reviews start rolling in! If I can squeeze in a 120W GPU that would be very nice  

[ShadowChaser]

Let the modding commence! 

 

Let me tell you, this console wasn't easy to take apart the first time I did it 3 years ago and it's not gotten much better. I'm going to have to come up with a way of making it more friendly to service in the future.

 

First thing to go is the corner where the old wireless module resided. This corner is really just a waste of space and removing it is a must. While I'm over there I'll also be removing the metal flanges overhanging the rear I/O just in case they interfere (which I think they would) plus they are surprisingly sharp. Definitely won't miss em!

 

Flanges removed:

Spoiler

 

Followed by the corner bracket:

Spoiler

 

That'll help with component placement for sure! The motherboard should fit snugly against the old rear i/o with the offending metal pieces out of the way.

Next thing on the itinerary is to enlarge the side vents. Since I intend to use them to cool the CPU airflow will be important. For the GPU it is less so as in the current configuration I can always have it draw air through the old top exhaust, like so:

Spoiler

(This 1060 is only a stand in, but the dimensions are very close)

 

Modding the side vent for the exhaust was surprisingly difficult.

Spoiler

Here's a test cut on the 40mm exhaust side:

Looks quite promising, though my hands could be more steady. A clamp or a vice would really be quite helpful in this situation, methinks.

 

Here's a few more done:

Yeah, not the most elegant or pretty thing in the world. I'll have to figure out how to smooth and finish it. I think I might try to use polycrylic but I'm not sure it dries clear.

 

The cuts for the exhaust are now done:

Next thing to do is to file and sand down the corners, then figure out how to buff away the machining marks.

Once that's done, I can start designing the fan bracket for this side.

Kudos to Microsoft for sourcing plastic that's more difficult to cut than the steel chassis inside

[Fatih19]

Very interesting project!

[ShadowChaser]

It's a new day, and there's more modding to be done in preparation for the parts that are arriving this weekend. I've decided that I didn't want to compromise on performance (and because I found some extra cash under the couch cushions) so I've gone ahead and reserved a Ryzen 5 3600 at my local micro center. After tax it's still cheaper than the listed price on etailers so I'm pretty happy with that! This'll make this system killer for games for a few years, hopefully, especially as a LAN machine.

 

Anyway, with the exhaust vents done now it's time to tackle the intake. The side panels are barely big enough for 60mm fans, and with internal space at a premium I've elected to go with 15mm thick slim 60mm fans. I could have gone with even thinner 10mm fans but from experience those get quite loud and still don't move as much air. Too bad, really, I could've used the space.

 

Here's what I did to mod the intake side:

Spoiler

 

The test cut on the old vents:

 

Further cuts done:

 

These cuts were surprisingly time consuming, but I got it done, eventually. With this side significantly opened up I'd expect very little trouble in terms of cooling performance.

 

 

Next I had to finish and make the side panel look decent:

Spoiler

 

To remove the sanded and machined look of the plastic I tried to use some wipe on poly, and the results were sort of satisfactory. Yes, the plastic looks much better but it's also a bit shinier in the areas that I coated. 

 

But once completely dry I am mostly happy with how it turned out. I can only blame myself for the poor machining XD

 

 

 

Now that I had gotten the outside mostly tidied up, I had to deal with the internals again. The gap between these side pieces and the steel chassis is almost large enough for a 10mm fan to fit, but it's just a bit too close. Oh well, more Dremeling I suppose.

Spoiler

These old side vents in the metal frame must go, because they would interfere with the sides fitting properly:

 

So now the internal frame looks like this:

 

 

 

It's starting to feel a little flimsy - I can definitely flex it along a few axes at this point. Hopefully I won't have to remove much more.

I'll be test fitting some spare fans soon, and I really wish the ones I ordered would arrive faster. I do have to make a cutout in the steel to account for the thickness of the 60mm fans since they do intrude on the chassis quite significantly, so that'll be what I'll work on next!

[ShadowChaser]

Parts are starting to arrive now, and I'm excited!

The Ryzen 5 3600 will make me very happy in terms of gaming and even some productivity. Given that my current workstation barely outbenches it CPU wise even with a bit of undervolting this will be quite powerful!

The memory I have on hand at the moment is relatively hot garbage... two 4GB sticks, one that's 2133 CL15 and one that's 2666 CL16... They'll do, but I'm just waiting for some Micron Rev. E to drop in price. Until that happens I'll use this opportunity to see if I can overclock these at all. They will be in direct airflow, after all.

 

Now, picking up where we left off last time, the side vents are done, and internal space has been mostly made for the fans. I only have to make a cutout on the intake side for the thicker fans.

Spoiler

Well, that was easy, but I've only just noticed that the tabs that help line up the sides are in the way of the fans fitting. Bummer. Good thing I didn't put the Dremel away.

 

A bit of cutting and sanding later, this is what we have:

 

 

 

And finally I get to fit the fans! I only have some leftover 40 and 60mms from my other electronic projects, but they're cheap and they'll do for now  I'm expecting the 40mm exhausts to fit just fine, and they do!

Spoiler

 

 

Disregarding the 20mm thick variant at the end, I'm very happy with the fit of these fans, and I can commence with designing and printing the mounting bracket prototype.

 

On the intake side, the fans wouldn't fit without a generous bit of sanding.
 

Spoiler

 

I ended up sanding this fan within an inch of its life.

You can see the fan frame overhanging the side panel's extrusions:

And my very messy handiwork that resulted in its fitting:

My measurements were almost spot on, giving myself just 1mm of wiggle room with the thicker fans:

And no, it's not pretty, but it's not like you can see it from the outside. I will have to be more careful with the real fans that will be arriving soon^TM 

From the outside, it does look rather stealthy in my opinion, at least!

 

 

Here's what my work so far as culminated in:

And until more parts arrive, there's not much more I can work on.

 

I'll take the opportunity to ask some more questions, what are your opinions on my GPU choice? Of all the parts I have selected I have the most doubt about the 1650 Super. I'll have time to decide, given that the models I'm after are rarely in stock, but would it be worthwhile to make the leap to a 120W chip?

 

I don't know. Maybe I'll have to look at how this CPU in particular undervolts so I have a better power budget to work with.

[ShadowChaser]

Not much of an update this time around, unfortunately.

 

The cpu cooler has arrived, can't believe this cute little thing is rated for 65W of thermal dissipation

I've modeled and printed some fan brackets for the exhaust. Nothing too fancy, just purely for prototypes:

Spoiler

 

Then proceeded to test fit them:

Spoiler

 

 

All in all, that's the exhaust component figured out for now. According to Amazon my motherboard is arriving on Friday so hopefully I'll have another update soon!

[Fatih19]

1 hour ago, ShadowChaser said:

Not much of an update this time around, unfortunately.

 

The cpu cooler has arrived, can't believe this cute little thing is rated for 65W of thermal dissipation

 

I've modeled and printed some fan brackets for the exhaust. Nothing too fancy, just purely for prototypes:

Then proceeded to test fit them:

 

All in all, that's the exhaust component figured out. According to Amazon my motherboard is arriving on Friday so hopefully I'll have another update soon!

What software are you using to make the 3D model of the fan bracket?

[GreatnessRD]

This looks dope, pimp! 

[ShadowChaser]

7 hours ago, Fatih19 said:

What software are you using to make the 3D model of the fan bracket?

Fusion 360, which is free for personal use! It's very handy especially bc I learned AutoCAD in school and Fusion lets you export gcode directly if you set it up. I still export the STL into Cura or Repetier Host to be sliced though.

 

2 hours ago, GreatnessRD said:

This looks dope, pimp! 

Thanks

[ShadowChaser]

Rejoice! All the parts I need for testing have arrived and I am now in the process of locking down a GPU

These are exciting times indeed!

 

Let's get the boring stuff out of the way first - I chopped down the 60mm fans that just arrived and they fit very nicely on the intake side:

Spoiler

I had to remove about 1mm on both sides of the fan - quite nerve wracking if I'm being honest!

 

But they all came out very nicely and fit very nicely!

 

Here's what I've got for airflow in this chassis at this point. We'll have to see if it will be able to handle the components I'm putting inside

Doesn't it look like a miniature server? It's quite delightful XD

 

The motherboard has arrived, and it's nothing too fancy, but it ought to last a long, long time. I've put everything in its place, save for removing the VRM heatsink and replacing it with something low profile and finned as opposed to the hunk of aluminum that's on there right now.

Spoiler

Ain't she a beauty? Too bad side windows on consoles don't exist...yet.

 

Let's see that Ryzen 5 3600 in all its glory!

 

That'll probably be the last I'll see it for a long time now that the heatsink assembly is in place.

I still can't believe it was so difficult to find a heatsink like this ^
I mean, seriously? This was the only choice I had!

 

And it's truly a low profile affair in here.

The memory and the rear I/O share the title of being the tallest components in this build once that pesky VRM heatsink gets removed, both of them standing at 35mm above the board's surface.

 

I'll be booting the system with a spare HDD and GT730 I use to test PCs, but until I find time to do that, here's an idea of what the innards of the system might look like! This makes me really glad I took the time to model these components, even as crappily done as they are, so I can get an idea of what has to go  

I've modeled the Zotac Gaming GTX 1650 Super Twin Fan and it is currently my #1 choice in GPU. This decision might change down the road, however.

Spoiler

The motherboard will be inverted, facing towards the bottom of the chassis, while also being placed as high up as possible. This is to minimize the amount of modding I have to do to both the chassis and GPU.

 

The GPU will sit face up and as low as possible. Its shroud and fans will have to be removed, but I left a shroud mockup in place to get a better idea of scale.

 

The rear i/o will be mostly accessible with this design, the only caveats being the recessed audio and wifi connections

 

Now let's assess the overlapping areas - the GPU and motherboard overlap in numerous places. This was another reason why this GPU was my choice. Its heatsink is extruded aluminum garbage, but that also means no heatpipes to worry about when I take my Dremel to it. Let's see how much I'll have to cut away.

 

At the very rear of the chassis, it's obvious that the PCIe bracket has to go. Thankfully none of the display outputs interfere with the motherboard rear i/o, so not too much to worry about here. The final placement of the GPU will be a millimeter or two higher than this model, so bear that in mind for the next few pictures.

 

We can see that the wifi module and audio module will not only interfere with the fan and shroud of the gpu, but also the bottom portion of the heatsink itself. Ouch. While I can remove the wifi module (left) it's the audio outputs (right) that interfere the most, so no dice there. I'll just have to chop some fins off.

 

Moving along to the PCIe slot and chipset, there will be no interference once the fans and shroud are removed. I will likely still have to remove a bit of fin in order to fit a PCIe extension cable, but hopefully I'll find one low profile enough that it won't be necessary.

 

Whelp, as I had expected, the memory will in fact interfere dramatically with the GPU. Looks like more fins will have to be sacrificed here, shame.

 

Now the question for me is how to route the PCIe extension.

 

I can almost use it to form a barrier between the motherboard and GPU, essentially splitting the chassis into 2 separate chambers if I just run it the easy way. With this method the CPU side will be very positively pressurized, intaking from the side and exhausting who knows where, while the GPU side will be somewhat negatively pressurized, exhausting out the side and pulling in air from the top vents and from the CPU side. I may have to find a slim fan to put where the top intake was to augment the GPU cooling.

 

My second option is to get a longer extension and essentially origami my way out of this by running along a convoluted route that goes something like this: 180 flip to the back of motherboard, 90 degree fold to front of chassis, then the bottom of the chassis, then finally a 90 degree fold to connect with the GPU. I get the preserve the smooth airflow path I had envisioned this way, but I don't know if the ribbon cables of PCIe extensions can even do what I want to. I may have to look for x8 or even x4 extensions, potentially.

 

What are your thoughts on the matter?

[Ross Siggers]

Dude this is progressing so fast, its going to be amazing! It'll be interesting to see how much of the metal skeleton is left afterwards, consoles are constructed so differently these days compared to the my Dreamcast; On that everything is bolted directly to the shell because the plastics are thicker, especially the floor. That's what made it possible really.

Also loving the 3D printed parts. I'm toying with buying a cheap 3D printer at the moment, I can imagine it'll make mounting much easier in plenty of places. I love the server style airflow and taking advantage of the pre-exsisting slatted areas too. I've got an OG PS2 that I was going to modify and I was going to do exactly the same thing as you, cut between the slats to make the case much more open. Did it take long? 

[ShadowChaser]

6 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

-snip-

To be fair, this was released in late 2005 and with a totally different philosophy  (though this model was from 2013 and was the 3rd major revision)

Also, even though it's larger than your Dreamcast build, the much slimmer profile is proving to be quite challenging XD

As for what of the metal chassis will be left, all I need to do now is cut out the rear i/o and that's it! Everything else will just be left to my 3D printer as well as shaving down what I can of the plastic outer shells while preserving the original look.

My progress will have to slow a bunch as I'm waiting for various standoffs and other smaller electronic components to arrive, such as my front panel, HD-PLEX psu, etc. I still have to wait for the 1650S to come back into stock as well with the 'rona still flying around.

 

It's getting there! I'm excited! Also terrified because anything I do wrong now will be very difficult to fix.

[Ross Siggers]

@ShadowChaser is making the existing front panel work a possibility? I guess it all depends on the wiring behind it, I know the 2nd gen 360 uses some kind of ribbon cable or the buttons, which sucks. The PS2 I've got is similar too. The metal cage thing I think is a very Microsoft style of construction. I've not looked inside any other newer consoles, but the OG Xbox was the same as well. But, if i ever modified one of those I'd remove the cage entirely, those things are TANKS.   

 

And being worried about making mistakes? Geez tell me about it, I'd put things off for weeks or even months because there was a particularly major or precise cut that i didn't want to make, knowing how tricky it would be. You dremel skills will definitely get leveled up on this build  

[ShadowChaser]

@Ross Siggers The existing rear i/o will have to go, and the plan is to run dual USB 3.0 to the old front usb ports. It's a proprietary port that combines usb and the wireless receiver and I've seen peeps reverse engineer it to put it on a usb bus but I don't want to throw arduinos and such into the mix haha

 

Also, this isn't even my Dremel. I don't own any power tools except a hand drill so I've been borrowing the tools of a really close friend  

 

Did I mention that having rapid prototyping abilities is super nice? I'm on my third revision of what will become the motherboard support bracket so I can reuse the original mounting holes  

[Ross Siggers]

@ShadowChaser This build is going to be SO different from mine haha, that was a very old school, hand made approach because I can't model or 3D print...yet. I'd very much like to print more parts for my next project, whenever that is. I know what it is...just not when  

 

 Out of interest where is the HDplex going/ I can see a gap down the front of the case I guess it'll be vertically mounted there? The SFF power supply market changes so rapidly, it's actually kind of annoying. I was sent the wrong order initially, I got something called the KMPKT Dynamo 360, which is similar to the HDplex 400 but smaller because of the slightly lower power target. It seemed well balanced and definitely well made. It's something I'd 100% use in a build...if it was still available. HDplex are the only company that's really sustained

[ShadowChaser]

@Ross Siggers The 200W unit I'm using is a DC-ATX psu, so it would just plug straight into the 24-pin. However, it's too tall so I'll have to grab a 90 degree 24-pin adapter and just have it sit in the dead space between the mobo and front of the chassis kinda where the disk drive faceplate covers.

 

As for the printing, well, it kind of had to happen otherwise there would be no way I could cool everything unless I started drilling and hacking holes or relied on an APU, neither of which would scratch that itch for me  

[Ross Siggers]

@ShadowChaser Ooooh I misread, I thought you were using an HDplex 400, my bad. On a build plan once I toyed with the idea of using a literal 24-pin extender from someone like cablemods, to remotely mount the power supply. It was a pretty far out idea, but I don't think I'd have to go with that now, I was almost curious just to see if it would have worked. See no reason why not  

Btw, I'm super flattered that you said this build was at least in part inspired by my dreamcast. I think that's awesome, knowing that thing may have spawned another really unique SFF build. So cheers! I actually logged on here to uploade some pictures to that thread but I definitely didn't get distracted... >.> 

p.s. if you could link the thread in your first post, I'd love you forever  

[ShadowChaser]

@Ross Siggers You got it dude! I'm always one for giving credit XD
Now I could have gone with the 400W - there was enough room for sure - but no way was I going to cool any system that could draw more than ~200W of power

[Ross Siggers]

13 minutes ago, ShadowChaser said:

@Ross Siggers You got it dude! I'm always one for giving credit XD
Now I could have gone with the 400W - there was enough room for sure - but no way was I going to cool any system that could draw more than ~200W of power

Cheers bud, and a very good point about TDP  Even though I got it better than I expected, thermals are still the bane of that Dreamcast. There's actually a little space in the front where I could just about squeeze some 40mm fans, but the aesthetic just doesn't lend itself to subtly placing them unfortunately. The 'Lid off for gaming sessions' still applies. The fake vents all over Xbox's is a blessing in disguise, pun somewhat intended! 

 

If there's nothing else going in that space in the front, you could use it for an internal AC-DC converter...your system is definitely more demanding than mine, and you'll probably end up with an external brick something like my original one I'd guess, which was a 230W HP brick, LA-12 model. Seemed to be a popular SFF choice when I bought it. I can't remember the dimensions of the AC-DC converter off the top of my head though.

 

[ShadowChaser]

@Ross Siggers Hey, if it works, it works  

I limited myself to 200W peak for the TDP reasons and the fact that I already have a 180W brick lying around as an extra for my laptop. Though tbh picking up a 200 or 230W brick won't be too far out of the question if I do need it. My goal is still to have the system draw under 120W when loaded. It'll be able to stand toe to toe with my Aero 15 with that kind of power budget and hopefully be much quieter while looking awesome!