NN was repealed, nothing happened. Did a single content creator apologize for their fearmongering?

[AngryBeaver]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

Weird how housing prices were stable over all the decades before the government came in.

And yes, I already factored out inflation. Itis not rocket science.

The dollar is actually not doing badly at all, even though deficits have been high over the last 20 years.

 

Did education also become so much more expensive because you ran out of space?

I think you believe that these items are being highly regulated by the government.... they actually aren't. Which is why we have so many for profit colleges and ever increasing prices. All the government has done is continue allowing federal student loans to these blatantly overprices schools.

 

So what has that done? Well it has created a scenario where more youth are in debt. Now again this doesn't play a part on the schools setting these prices. So the problem here would be the government hasn't stepped in and said enough is enough and set profit limits like they do in other sectors. I mean look at the democratic party now. There is a reason Bernie is doing so well.

 

The problem is that capitalism is one of our greatest strengths and weaknesses. It allows us to make a fortune for ourselves, but it has also allowed a portion of the population to become too powerful. We now have large corporations and the 1% basically buying politicians and throwing around money to get what is best for them. Changes that help them amass even more wealth, while offering the average citizen as little protection as possible. THAT is why net-neutrality was repealed. Trump appointed someone he KNEW didn't want it. We know from the side stuff with his lawyer that he was more than likely making deals with the big ISPs around this time. I mean does noone think it is a little fishy that his lawyer was being paid tons of reoccuring money from these companies since he had the presidents ear... and then shortly after all this began trump puts the one guy that was dead set against the NN movement into the FCC?

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, Bitter said:

I linked articles and a paper about throttling after the repeal of NN, which you say doesn't happen/doesn't exist. Throttling that would have been regulated and illegal under NN. You knew that though and grabbed for low hanging fruit to bait another argument. Making text bigger doesn't make your point more or less valid, it just causes you to appear like a screaming child.

I copy pasted it. Even had "enter as unformatted text" no clue why it did that.

 

 

I am trying to get you statist bootlicker to see some extremely obvious trends.

If you worldview is pro state in general you won't get a subtle issue like NN.

If you choose to ignore mountains of data that show how the government screws you, then nothing I say about NN will help.

So I chose the most obvious examples where everyone can check the facts

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Okay, you are a flat eather level loon.

Capitalism means: Two parties can form a voluntary contract without unwanted third party interference.

During the Reign of Terror the State controlled every aspect of life. 

"The state having total power is capitalism" is even dumber than "the earth is flat" 

So more unsupported insults.

Actually I’m sort sort of the opposite of a flat earther.

 

Thats pure capitalism.  It says nothing or almost nothing about the ways things function. It pays zero heed to the ramifications of those contracts.  Your definition is vague in the extreme.   It allows serfdom and chattel slavery for one thing.  It ignores the concept of choice.  It ignores the ability of one party to force the other into a disadvantageous situation that gets more disadvantageous over time.  It’s Russian imperial economics.  Every Russian noble had a monopoly on the land.  They formed contracts with the people who over time became their serfs, who were given contracts that were the choice between a disadvantageous contract or slow horrible death.  The owners of these advantageous contracts stopped doing anything useful because why, and with each successive generation it got worse and worse and worse.  Eventually there was a revolution.  This goes back to the no object permanence problem.  This is what eventually happens with that system.  Every single time.  The opener for this thread was effectively  “see! The thing you predicted didn’t happen within my arbitrarily defined time frame of zero so I’m right! And I demand an apology which is something I never ever give out”.  You received laughter and derision. Let’s look at the other regulation removals:  airline deregulation:  the current state of air travel was predicted.   There WAS a honeymoon period where the deregulates said “see it’s better! I demand an apology now!” Except everything eventually fell into exactly what was predicted.  High airline costs, a system unusable for many, airports that turned into monopoly single carrier hubs.  All of it.  It hasn’t even reached the end yet.  It’s going to co tongue to get worse. Parcel carrying? Same thing.  Deregulation was great for a while.  It hasn’t gone as fast as air travel did.  Currently the private carriers are being propped up by government by being awarded the most profitable sections of parcel carrying while the public carriers are banned from competing there while having to do all the least profitable stuff that actually makes the system work.  The claim that net neutrality rules are unnecessary is younger yet.  So you are demanding your “apology” at the very beginning of the process. Not getting one from me.  I still think it will go bad.  Very very bad in this case.  

[TheLongWay]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

I think you believe that these items are being highly regulated by the government.... they actually aren't. Which is why we have so many for profit colleges and ever increasing prices. All the government has done is continue allowing federal student loans to these blatantly overprices schools.

 

So what has that done? Well it has created a scenario where more youth are in debt. Now again this doesn't play a part on the schools setting these prices. So the problem here would be the government hasn't stepped in and said enough is enough and set profit limits like they do in other sectors. I mean look at the democratic party now. There is a reason Bernie is doing so well.

 

The problem is that capitalism is one of our greatest strengths and weaknesses. It allows us to make a fortune for ourselves, but it has also allowed a portion of the population to become too powerful. We now have large corporations and the 1% basically buying politicians and throwing around money to get what is best for them. Changes that help them amass even more wealth, while offering the average citizen as little protection as possible. THAT is why net-neutrality was repealed. Trump appointed someone he KNEW didn't want it. We know from the side stuff with his lawyer that he was more than likely making deals with the big ISPs around this time. I mean does noone think it is a little fishy that his lawyer was being paid tons of reoccuring money from these companies since he had the presidents ear... and then shortly after all this began trump puts the one guy that was dead set against the NN movement into the FCC?

" federal student loans" THAT is the involvement.

JESUS.

FEDERAL

LOANS

Where do they come from?

 

[Donut417]

I find it really Ironic that a person from Germany would be crying about a regulation that did not effect them. I mean they live in the EU, the EU regulates the FUCK out of everything in existnace. 

 

To me the internet is just as critial as our electrical grid, our road networks and phone service. If 911 goes down for a phone company the FCC generally slaps them with a fine. Thats because voice services are heavily regualted. Why shouldnt the internet have at least a set of general rules? 

 

Even with the regulations, Comcast still had data caps and was still able to force Netflix to pay them a boat load of cash. So its not like they really did any harm. Also its not like deregulation was going to make things better eaither. ISP find any and all ways to be anti competitive and anti consumer. If they have to pay fines, so be it, they can afford to take the hit and still make a large profit. 

[Bitter]

9 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

You people will defend the government against anything. It does not matter what the data looks like.

If the facts were the reverse you would be screaming for the heads of capitalists.

Bootlickers like you sicken me.

There it is. Who are these 'You people' and 'Bootlickers' exactly?

[TheLongWay]

Just now, Donut417 said:

I find it really Ironic that a person from Germany would be crying about a regulation that did not effect them. I mean they live in the EU, the EU regulates the FUCK out of everything in existnace. 

 

To me the internet is just as critial as our electrical grid, our road networks and phone service. If 911 goes down for a phone company the FCC generally slaps them with a fine. Thats because voice services are heavily regualted. Why shouldnt the internet have at least a set of general rules? 

 

Even with the regulations, Comcast still had data caps and was still able to force Netflix to pay them a boat load of cash. So its not like they really did any harm. Also its not like deregulation was going to make things better eaither. ISP find any and all ways to be anti competitive and anti consumer. If they have to pay fines, so be it, they can afford to take the hit and still make a large profit. 

I want to be a US citizen at some point in my life. That is why I care MORE about the US than Germany.

And part of the reason why I want to leave here is all those regulations.

 

[TheLongWay]

Just now, Bitter said:

There it is. Who are these 'You people' and 'Bootlickers' exactly?

Everyone who looks at the fact that the most regulated industries have the fastest rising prices and says "I will conclude nothing from this"

[AngryBeaver]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

" federal student loans" THAT is the involvement.

JESUS.

FEDERAL

LOANS

Where do they come from?

 

How is that regulating the schools? Oh that's right it isn't. It is just them offering a service to people who need it to go to school. It has actually increased the amount of people able to attend college. The problem is the COLLEGES have seen that as an opportunity to increase cost exponentially. If the government was truly regulating like you say then they should/would have stepped in and stopped this practice.

 

Remember the whole FAFSA thing doesn't really make the government money. Yes, they do charge interest, but there are a ton of people that never pay them outside of the money they lose to the government from taxes on default student loans. Then you have those that pay the bare minimum and have their debt absolved in 20 years with a hefty balance left over. So I am pretty confident that the FAFSA program operates at a deficit. All of that is because they have NOT stepped in and regulated the schools, 

[TheLongWay]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

How is that regulating the schools? Oh that's right it isn't. It is just them offering a service to people who need it to go to school. It has actually increased the amount of people able to attend college. The problem is the COLLEGES have seen that as an opportunity to increase cost exponentially. If the government was truly regulating like you say then they should/would have stepped in and stopped this practice.

 

Remember the whole FAFSA thing doesn't really make the government money. Yes, they do charge interest, but there are a ton of people that never pay them outside of the money they lose to the government from taxes on default student loans. Then you have those that pay the bare minimum and have their debt absolved in 20 years with a hefty balance left over. So I am pretty confident that the FAFSA program operates at a deficit. All of that is because they have NOT stepped in and regulated the schools, 

Of course is has something to do with regulating colleges. Because this money, along with other things, comes with string attached.

Why is it that BEFORE the government had these programs college was affordable?

You choose to ignore that.

And no, sending more kids to get useless trash degrees on feminiest dance therapy is not a good thing.

The same is true in Germany. At least half of all degrees are worthless. 

[Bitter]

4 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

Everyone who looks at the fact that the most regulated industries have the fastest rising prices and says "I will conclude nothing from this"

Is 'Everyone' anyone who doesn't share your exact same views? I'm still reading your 'magic box' article but I'm not finding it very convincing yet, you yourself said we can't operate in a world of hypothetical which is exactly what that article is proposing, I however am open minded enough to still read it and take note of the content and broaden my views despite my skepticism. You on the other hand seem to have made your mind up years ago and only came here to argue, knowing that the bulk of members on this forum would have an opposing view. Maybe you should reconsider moving to the US and find a less regulated country to live in that more aligns with your views.

[AngryBeaver]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

Of course is has something to do with regulating colleges. Because this money, along with other things, comes with string attached.

Why is it that BEFORE the government had these programs college was affordable?

You choose to ignore that.

And no, sending more kids to get useless trash degrees on feminiest dance therapy is not a good thing.

The same is true in Germany. At least half of all degrees are worthless. 

I think we are going to just need to agree to disagree. You don't actually care about what anyone else has to say and have been more than happy to insult people at random.

 

You are here to just blast your views and argue with anyone you can. It doesn't matter how much truth or merit their post has you can't see past your own views. This does not make for a constructive discussion and will only devolve further. The best we can hope for is a moderator locking this thread.

[TheLongWay]

2 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Is 'Everyone' anyone who doesn't share your exact same views? I'm still reading your 'magic box' article but I'm not finding it very convincing yet, you yourself said we can't operate in a world of hypothetical which is exactly what that article is proposing, I however am open minded enough to still read it and take note of the content and broaden my views despite my skepticism. You on the other hand seem to have made your mind up years ago and only came here to argue, knowing that the bulk of members on this forum would have an opposing view. Maybe you should reconsider moving to the US and find a less regulated country to live in that more aligns with your views.

I was very left-wing as a teen and early-twenty something guy.

 

[Donut417]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

ant to be a US citizen at some point in my life.

Why? The US is not a welcoming place. We have crumbling infustucture, we are ran by large corporations who have caused capitalism to go out of control. We have a level of greed in this country that is sickening. Oh our food is probably not 100% safe to eat and you may not want to drink the water unless you want lead posiening, at least in Michigan, but Im sure other states are in the same boat. You will probably have to get a job making slave wages and keep in mind your expenseses will continue to rise as your wage stays the same. 

 

On a note about ISP's. In many areas you have 1 or 2 choices. Most ISP's have shitty customer service. Oh and Data caps,Overages and throttling are all happening as well. Oh and probably about 20% of the US doesnt get decent internet because they choose to live in the rural areas. But even large cities dont have good internet options most of the time. 

[ARikozuM]

Man, this dude is basically Shen Bapiro Lite. 

1 minute ago, TheLongWay said:

I was very left-wing as a teen and early-twenty something guy.

 

Means absolutely nothing. 

[TheLongWay]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

I think we are going to just need to agree to disagree. You don't actually care about what anyone else has to say and have been more than happy to insult people at random.

 

You are here to just blast your views and argue with anyone you can. It doesn't matter how much truth or merit their post has you can't see past your own views. This does not make for a constructive discussion and will only devolve further. The best we can hope for is a moderator locking this thread.

So, the government steps in, sends kids loans and prices explode.

Your take-away is: "We have to agree to disagree"

Come one man. You are smarter than that. 

If someone with nearly unlimited money comes into a market with limited supply (partially the fault of regulation) what do you think will happen?

 

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Why? The US is not a welcoming place. We have crumbling infustucture, we are ran by large corporations who have caused capitalism to go out of control. We have a level of greed in this country that is sickening. Oh our food is probably not 100% safe to eat and you may not want to drink the water unless you want lead posiening, at least in Michigan, but Im sure other states are in the same boat. You will probably have to get a job making slave wages and keep in mind your expenseses will continue to rise as your wage stays the same. 

 

On a note about ISP's. In many areas you have 1 or 2 choices. Most ISP's have shitty customer service. Oh and Data caps,Overages and throttling are all happening as well. Oh and probably about 20% of the US doesnt get decent internet because they choose to live in the rural areas. But even large cities dont have good internet options most of the time. 

Then capitalism must be even more out of control in Australia, Canada, and Switzerland, since those are more capitalist than you

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

Man, this dude is basically Shen Bapiro Lite. 

Means absolutely nothing. 

Ben Shapiro is a digusting grifter. Don't compare me to him. Oh, and he is a warmonger. 

[ARikozuM]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

Then capitalism must be even more out of control in Australia, Canada, and Switzerland, since those are more capitalist than you

You f#cking serious, mate? 

 

Your idea of "capitalism" is markets that are more regulated? 

[AngryBeaver]

Just now, TheLongWay said:

So, the government steps in, sends kids loans and prices explode.

Your take-away is: "We have to agree to disagree"

Come one man. You are smarter than that. 

If someone with nearly unlimited money comes into a market with limited supply (partially the fault of regulation) what do you think will happen?

 

I am speaking more to your stance as a whole. That being said I have nothing further to say on this topic. It serves no purpose other than to give you further opportunity to push your views.

[Bitter]

3 minutes ago, TheLongWay said:

I was very left-wing as a teen and early-twenty something guy.

 

I finished the 'magic box' article and my take away from it was that we need a central organization to pool resources to solve problems across regions of the country here. What were your thoughts on it or on what it was saying?

[TheLongWay]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

You f#cking serious, mate? 

 

Your idea of "capitalism" is markets that are more regulated? 

You seem to be unaware of either 

-what capialism is

-how capitalist other countries are. The US is nowhere near the top.

So, since these countries are more capitalist than you guys, they must be bad?

[TheLongWay]

1 minute ago, Bitter said:

I finished the 'magic box' article and my take away from it was that we need a central organization to pool resources to solve problems across regions of the country here. What were your thoughts on it or on what it was saying?

About as expected from a bootlicker

[TheLongWay]

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I am speaking more to your stance as a whole. That being said I have nothing further to say on this topic. It serves no purpose other than to give you further opportunity to push your views.

At lleast you don't make stuff up like the rest of the people here.

I used to like LTT and the community, if people here had a little backbone and standards like you I might have stayed. bb

[JoostinOnline]

4 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Is 'Everyone' anyone who doesn't share your exact same views? I'm still reading your 'magic box' article but I'm not finding it very convincing yet, you yourself said we can't operate in a world of hypothetical which is exactly what that article is proposing,

If we could, then I think Bioshock would count as evidence against it.

 

What the OP is proposing (the lack of regulation) isn't capitalism, it's objectivism, a philosophical and economic theory from the 50s that says altruism is evil and selfishness is good. It's been rejected by pretty much everyone as impractical.

 

Having read his replies, I've seen him repeatedly ignore evidence and respond with fallacies, so at this point I'm just expecting the topic to get locked. There's no reason showing things to a person with their eyes clamped shut.