Microsoft pulls KB4524244 due to BSOD, OS freezes, boot loops, and installation issues

[TechyBen]

19 hours ago, mr moose said:

Yes,  without actual statistics on the number of machines that suffer some sort of  update figure, there is no way to know how bad updates really are.  For all we know windows might have less update failures than mac or Linux Due to the size of the windows user base, they only need to have 3% failure rate to have the same number of issues as mac with 21% failure rate.   So every time someone reports a failure it is basically an unknown how many people are effected, all we know is some people are. 

 

In short, yes, when someone says they don't have problems like a few of us on these forums have been saying, what it means is windows isn't 100% bad.  We don't know what the failure rate is, but trying to claim it is higher than any other OS is naive at best and an intentional lie at worst.

 

 

EDIT: Just to add, it would be impossible to try and even work out a fair comparison of failures on Linux simply due to the huge variance in distro's, usage and the degree of skill for the end user (The number of people experimenting with Linux isn't necessarily a small number).

For someone with their house on fire, or someone with Windows 10 problems, "It's not 100% bad" only helps if solutions are offered.

PS, where am I comparing to Linux? I say "I'm going to linux" because Linux does what I need, Windows 10 does not. When I am upgrading for gaming, that will be 10 (boot manager or VM based). But for every day use and non 3d/cad, it will be Linux.

[ARikozuM]

1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

So you want a world of Apple users who ditch their hardware when a new OS comes out? Should I scrap my machine as it has a Vista sticker on it?

Nice strawman. 

 

I would much rather things structure and update like on Linux, which for all its faults does a much better job with updates and patch notes (whereas Windows asks you to go online for the patch notes and requires the entire installation to reboot). 

 

Until Microsoft updates stop being mandatory (because updating doesn't keep us all safe when there are numerous users and stores that then lose the ability to use their hardware and software like POS or scanners for no reason). 

Quote

Free version of what?

Windows. If you have 7 or 8/8.1, you have the ability to move up to 10 for free or you can install their unlimited trial and still block them from forcing updates. 

[Curious Pineapple]

21 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Nice strawman.

You stated that Microsoft should not support Windows 7 era hardware, so should I just ditch my Vista era machine?

23 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Windows. If you have 7 or 8/8.1, you have the ability to move up to 10 for free or you can install their unlimited trial and still block them from forcing updates. 

And now say that you would do exactly the opposite by moving to 10 from 7/8, on hardware that YOU said Microsoft should not support.

 

Make your damn mind up.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, TechyBen said:

For someone with their house on fire, or someone with Windows 10 problems, "It's not 100% bad" only helps if solutions are offered.

I think you need to read my post again.  The fact of the matter is you can't claim 100% when there is no evidence to back it up.  Some people have problems and some people have no problems.  This idea that updates are riddled with problems 100% of the time is a naive approach to a problem of an unknown size.

 

3 hours ago, TechyBen said:

PS, where am I comparing to Linux? I say "I'm going to linux" because Linux does what I need, Windows 10 does not. When I am upgrading for gaming, that will be 10 (boot manager or VM based). But for every day use and non 3d/cad, it will be Linux.

I didn't say you ere comparing to Linux, I said there is no way to compare to Linux or conclude it is better than windows (or any OS for that matter), but specifically Linux due to the nature of the OS.

 

 

The issue in this thread is that people are trying to make full drawn conclusion where no evidence exists to do so.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

I think you need to read my post again.  The fact of the matter is you can't claim 100% when there is no evidence to back it up.  Some people have problems and some people have no problems.  This idea that updates are riddled with problems 100% of the time is a naive approach to a problem of an unknown size.

 

I didn't say you ere comparing to Linux, I said there is no way to compare to Linux or conclude it is better than windows (or any OS for that matter), but specifically Linux due to the nature of the OS.

 

 

The issue in this thread is that people are trying to make full drawn conclusion where no evidence exists to do so.

Who is saying it's 100% of the time then if it's not you and it's not me?

If you / me are not comparing to linux, why bring it up? If MS and Windows 10 is having problems... should we just shrug it off?

Full drawn conclusion? Huh?

[hishnash]

On 2/17/2020 at 12:51 PM, Techstorm970 said:

Definitely see your point.  MacOS has fewer bugs because Apple only has to test it for their own machines.  It's easier to beta-test prior to release.  Microsoft has to try to test for the entire fucking hardware market, which gets complicated in a hurry!

The other side of this is driver versions, Since for almost all (low level) in the apple space apple ship the drivers as part of the OS they will upgrade the drivers when updating the OS so they don't need to test all the different permissions of combinations of third-party drivers.  

 

what MS should do is move more in that direction so that they can provide apis for hardware manufactures that do not require them to have deep kernel (pre-boot) drivers. But rather user-space (or kernel space but post boot) that reduces the testing surface a lot.

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Who is saying it's 100% of the time then if it's not you and it's not me?

If you / me are not comparing to linux, why bring it up? If MS and Windows 10 is having problems... should we just shrug it off?

Full drawn conclusion? Huh?

Pineapple said he doesn't have any serious problems with win 10,  you asked "so?",  he responded by pointing out that what he means is saying he has no problems means as much as anyone saying there are lots of problems with windows,  to which you asked; "does it though?".  I pointed out that yes it does. It is pretty self evident that it means exactly that, unfortunately everything else from there has been an attempt to make it look different when nobody can for the very distinct reasons I have already posted.

 

 

[JustWantTech]

On 2/22/2020 at 6:17 PM, Curious Pineapple said:

I have yet to have a serious issue with 10, or any issues really. It just works, and works rather well too.

Same. Maybe we are just lucky XD

 

[Curious Pineapple]

3 hours ago, JustWantTech said:

Same. Maybe we are just lucky XD

 

Or paid shills, how often do you get your payment?

[TechyBen]

16 hours ago, mr moose said:

Pineapple said he doesn't have any serious problems with win 10,  you asked "so?",  he responded by pointing out that what he means is saying he has no problems means as much as anyone saying there are lots of problems with windows,  to which you asked; "does it though?".  I pointed out that yes it does. It is pretty self evident that it means exactly that, unfortunately everything else from there has been an attempt to make it look different when nobody can for the very distinct reasons I have already posted.

 

 

At that point, you honestly feel that we did not know, that some times, you can run Windows 10 without errors?

As said, it's like posting "My house ain't on fire" in an Aus disaster thread (though I admit, in this case certainly not as important as the Aus incident). It's a statement, but not a helpful one. But you can defend it if you wish.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

At that point, you honestly feel that we did not know, that some times, you can run Windows 10 without errors?

As said, it's like posting "My house ain't on fire" in an Aus disaster thread (though I admit, in this case certainly not as important as the Aus incident). It's a statement, but not a helpful one. But you can defend it if you wish.

And it's also like posting there is an Aus disaster when only one house is on fire...

 

Sometimes an issue just isn't as big as people want it to be or are reporting it as being. Also not helpful to anyone.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

At that point, you honestly feel that we did not know, that some times, you can run Windows 10 without errors?

As said, it's like posting "My house ain't on fire" in an Aus disaster thread (though I admit, in this case certainly not as important as the Aus incident). It's a statement, but not a helpful one. But you can defend it if you wish.

Except that no one is saying that, We have actually said that it means nothing and explained why. It would be more accurate to conclude that what we are saying is that my house is not on fire in response to claims that some houses are on fire.

 

There is normally no need to say anything when nothing is wrong, except when we have so many people constantly trying to make an issue of unknown size out to be a massive disaster as if they know the size (which they are).  So we are trying to point out that not everyone has problems and the the issue most likely isn't as big as everyone makes out.

 

 

Unless you know how big the actual problems is, claiming you have experienced the issue doesn't make it any bigger or smaller. It only means your experience in regard to the size of the problem is anecdotal, just like those of us who still haven't had any problems, we know and acknowledge our evidence is only anecdotal (we all said that at the beginning) and further point out that what that means.

 

 

 

What we do know:  some updates have problems

What myth people keep saying: all updates have problems.

 

What we know: Like in this case, many update problems are related to 3rd party software (including drivers) not being properly updated or maintained.

The myth people keep saying: Updates fail because MS sacked their Q.A staff.

 

For a forum full of tech people who pride themselves on critical thinking and being aware, there sure is a lot of thoughtless parroting and lack of research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Killing-time-itself]

On 2/24/2020 at 3:20 PM, mr moose said:

Except that no one is saying that.

I'm 95% sure that was the entire point of the message.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, Killing-time-itself said:

I'm 95% sure that was the entire point of the message.

When I said "no one is saying that" I was referring to the idea that people are dismissing there being any problem based on the grounds they don't have any problems.  I don't think there is a single person in this thread who said windows doesn't have problems.