Windows 8 sold over 200 million licenses.

[mgsstar]

Great that Windows 8 sold over 200 million licenses. I think it has come a long way since release. Pretty much everything imo (maybe except older games) now supports Windows 8. 

[Misanthrope]

I can't believe people don't understand what DX is and why it exists.  All this BS about it being a monopoly and MS's way to control...  Bollocks...

 

 

 

Not really, it's more like 1/3rd linux, 1/3rd unix and 1/3rd windows. Right now there is no real majority os when it comes to servers.

 

Well Linux and Unix are closely related, most Linux users don't mind that their cousins like HP-UX get some server love too.

[deathjester]

I can't believe people don't understand what DX is and why it exists.  All this BS about it being a monopoly and MS's way to control...  Bollocks...

 

 

 

Not really, it's more like 1/3rd linux, 1/3rd unix and 1/3rd windows. Right now there is no real majority os when it comes to servers.

 

I can't believe that it is the SAME PEOPLE on every message board selling Windows 8 and Direct X and spreading fallacies either. Why don't you click on a few people in this thread, who always seem to be pumping up windows 8 and have a look through their post history. 

 

EA and MS used machinima and payments to pump up their products. You are completely naive if you think MS doesn't, and if we can't spot these people from a mile away.

 

There are a few people in this thread who are LAUGHABLE at the extent they will go to sell MS. 

 

 

I dual-booted Lubuntu with Windows 8 for six months. Linux is a bitchy server class operating system held together by elmers glue to the desktop. 

 

^ I would respond, but someone else already did and made this post look insane.

[old reece frost]

And I still didn't pay for it >:]

[Misanthrope]

Great that Windows 8 sold over 200 million licenses. I think it has come a long way since release. Pretty much everything imo (maybe except older games) now supports Windows 8. 

 

Seems impressive, so out of shits and giggles I looked up Android's number, they're over a billion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29

[mr moose]

I can't believe that it is the SAME PEOPLE on every message board selling Windows 8 and Direct X and spreading fallacies either. Why don't you click on a few people in this thread, who always seem to be pumping up windows 8 and have a look through their post history. 

 

EA and MS used machinima and payments to pump up their products. You are completely naive if you think MS doesn't, and if we can't spot these people from a mile away.

 

 

I don't think that at all, I just don't understand why people are getting their panties in a knot about it, direct x serves a purpose, there are other options to direct x, but if game developers want their games to run on windows then they have to use it,  if they want their games to run on the ps4 they have to use it's api, same with xbox and it will be the same with steam.  Unless of course they wish to program their own api and try to support as much hardware as possible.  But that would just increase the cost of games so gamers would just start whinging about that instead of DX.  It's not the end of the earth kinda stuff, its just a fact of technology life.

[mr moose]

Well Linux and Unix are closely related, most Linux users don't mind that their cousins like HP-UX get some server love too.

just like you could argue osx and unix are related so by that logic you could say most of the internet is powered by osx.

[Misanthrope]

I don't think that at all, I just don't understand why people are getting their panties in a knot about it, direct x serves a purpose, there are other options to direct x, but if game developers want their games to run on windows then they have to use it,  if they want their games to run on the ps4 they have to use it's api, same with xbox and it will be the same with steam.  Unless of course they wish to program their own api and try to support as much hardware as possible.  But that would just increase the cost of games so gamers would just start whinging about that instead of DX.  It's not the end of the earth kinda stuff, its just a fact of technology life.

 

Valve has several million reasons to code for linux as they're bringing a sizable chunk of their impressive user base over to Linux. So that "if you build it they will come" argument will not be as valid as you think within a reasonably short amount of time provided Valve see's any kind of success (and it looks like they just might)

[Misanthrope]

just like you could argue osx and unix are related so by that logic you could say most of the internet is powered by osx.

 

OSX, Linux, BSD, Unix they're all closely related so you could make that argument sure, that's an argument I would get behind.

[mr moose]

Valve has several million reasons to code for linux as they're bringing a sizable chunk of their impressive user base over to Linux. So that "if you build it they will come" argument will not be as valid as you think within a reasonably short amount of time provided Valve see's any kind of success (and it looks like they just might)

Valve's steam os (api component equivalent) is essentially the same thing for linux as dx is for windows.  In my mind there is no difference, the whole point to the api is to not only make it easier for developers code for the OS but to support large variances in hardware easily,  so if someone is to get upset with dx and claim it is holding a gun to developers heads then the same argument would have to be used for valves steam os, unless of course the reason for hating on dx is because said person is a fanboy. 

[Misanthrope]

Valve's steam os (api component equivalent) is essentially the same thing for linux as dx is for windows.  In my mind there is no difference

 

Yet Valve will not charge for the OS, will likely open up a lot of the development for anybody to code as most things will be open source. In fact Valve would be perfectly ok with someone coding an opengl game that will easily be ported to either Linux or Windows, they even said they would embrace EA coding Origin for linux for example.

So instead locking you inside Direct X that doesn't works anywhere else, Valve tells you "Code on OpenGL that works both here and on windows anyway". If that is the same in your mind you clearly misunderstood Valve and what they are trying to do.

[deathjester]

Valve's steam os (api component equivalent) is essentially the same thing for linux as dx is for windows.  In my mind there is no difference, the whole point to the api is to make it easier for developers code for the OS but to support large variances in hardware easily,  so if someone is to get upset with dx and claim it is holding a gun to developers heads then the same argument would have to be used for valves steam os, unless of course the reason for hating on dx is because said person is a fanboy. 

 

You are right there is no difference with a few exceptions. OPENGL (I like how you call it an "equivalent" and don't even name the API) also supports multiple chipsets and can support Mantle with extensions.

 

Big difference? OpenGL has been shown to be slightly faster, and Steam Os is FREE.

 

If you had Win 7, and then were forced to go 8 for direct x, and then buy 9 because 8 sucked...

 

That is 300 freakin dollars for the CHEAPEST versions. That is a GTX 770. 300 bucks for an API to play freakin games, along with notepad, a calculator, and some crappy multimedia software you could have on Linux for nothing. Meanwhile you could have used linux, or Mac OS during that time and paid like 0-50 bucks.

 

Again. OpenGL is faster in WINDOWS then DirectX. There is no reason for DirectX to exist anymore. 

 

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/133824-valve-opengl-is-faster-than-directx-even-on-windows

 

I would much rather have all OpenGL ports on ALL platforms with mantle like extensions for Nvidia/ATI then Direct X, mantle, OpenGL. They have to port most games to OpenGL for Mac/PS4 anyways. 

 

Everyone would have better performance, all cpu's would perform well and you are doing less work coding for 1 API with two extensions.

 

I have now seen "fanboy, haters" in this thread used as arguments. Make me laugh more. If you think game devs want Steam OS/Steam machines to fail, when they make a metric @#%^ ton of money off digital sales compared to getting nothing for used games/rentals on a consoles? You are wrong. They wanted to kill used games on next gen consoles, but couldn't due to outrage.

 

Add to that? Steam Machines will cut down on piracy a bit. One API, less piracy, more profit. The only thing standing in the way is Microsoft. MS hurts gaming, they don't improve it. You have to add 100 dollars to every system build to play a game, which is just stupid.

[Rassilon]

Yes and it's stable as fuck, so much so that the better part of the web and the internet works on it. Although distros like Ubuntu (not Lubuntu) and Linux Mint have made efforts to make it more user friendly it's still for what you'd call power users, tinkerers, etc. The point here isn't that you should use Linux, the point is that if you truly liked a customizable OS you'd install Arch Linux or other barebones Linux distro.

......

 

That's however my 100% personal and subjective 

Arch is only for people who want to live on the bleeding edge. It's not hard to use, it's not 'for tinkerers', it's only tedious. Also, I didn't say that I cared about customizing an OS, I said that you think it shouldn't be an option, and you should judge everything by the first fresh look. 

 

"by your rather colorful expressions on Linux I take it you consider it to be too barebones, too difficult for the average user. With me so far?"

No. Nothing I said implies that. If you want to paint me as the perfect target that you can take down, go nuts, but know that I didn't say that. I have no idea where you're pulling the customer satisfaction argument from, so I'm not going to respond to it

 

"and then you completely ditch the most fundamental pieces of it to accommodate users on a radically different interface like touch screens"

This is a lie. It's all right there, and better than ever. If you don't want to see metro, you don't have to. Why is that hard to grasp?

[deathjester]

Arch is only for people who want to live on the bleeding edge. It's not hard to use, it's not 'for tinkerers', it's only tedious. Also, I didn't say that I cared about customizing an OS, I said that you think it shouldn't be an option, and you should judge everything by the first fresh look. 

 

"by your rather colorful expressions on Linux I take it you consider it to be too barebones, too difficult for the average user. With me so far?"

No. Nothing I said implies that. If you want to paint me as the perfect target that you can take down, go nuts, but know that I didn't say that. I have no idea where you're pulling the customer satisfaction argument from, so I'm not going to respond to it

 

"and then you completely ditch the most fundamental pieces of it to accommodate users on a radically different interface like touch screens"

This is a lie. It's all right there, and better than ever. If you don't want to see metro, you don't have to. Why is that hard to grasp?

 

Bout as hard to grasp as 50 posts, most of them selling or defending MS.

 

Oh and as far as the post you made? It's simply bloat. It shouldn't be in the background. A tweaked 7 uses less memory then 8. Linux uses far less and has far less bloat.

 

It should have been an install option (prob will be in 9). You shouldn't have to install third party software on initial release to fix it. Oh and fullscreen ap's is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a desktop OS whose entire point was doing multiple things and once. That is why it was called *shocker* Windows. The app store makes no sense on a desktop. Apple's was much better. The last thing I want to do after building a computer for someone is teach them how to use, what they should already know how to use. It is a waste of my time and theirs.

 

I will give you this. At least you are more "tech savvy" then the average MS salesman. Still have to resort to "hater" "fanboy" and I am surprised you didn't go with the "holding back technology" bit.

 

Seeing you are this tech savvy, yet refuse to even say the name OpenGL, when you compared the API? I think it is pretty obvious you did NOT want people comparing performance between the two (no problem I fixed that for you).

 

Anyways, have fun selling BS on message boards man.I hope you get fired and MS stocks plummet. I remember when message boards weren't rampant with this crap. Shame Linustechtips doesn't show complete post history. I can laugh at you listing a age of 16 though. Lot of 16 year olds into Doctor Who (user name).The comic book character was a nice touch though. *golfclap*

 

We could all have a big laugh at a few of the people in this thread, and you all know who you are. People might begin to wonder why certain posters always bring up one product over and over again and defend/sell it. Anyways I am done with this thread. I can only argue propaganda so much before I get bored.

 

MS does this cus they care about you, and not because they want to force you to have to buy a new computer to do simple crap, that people want to do on older computers lol.

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-friends-family-leave-windows-xp-20140210,0,7473922.story#axzz2tFlpOr7w

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9246177/Backlash_slaps_Microsoft_s_help_a_friend_dump_XP_plea

 

Everyone thank MS. They are wonderful. Almost care about us as much as Comcast.

[mr moose]

Yet Valve will not charge for the OS, will likely open up a lot of the development for anybody to code as most things will be open source. In fact Valve would be perfectly ok with someone coding an opengl game that will easily be ported to either Linux or Windows, they even said they would embrace EA coding Origin for linux for example.

So instead locking you inside Direct X that doesn't works anywhere else, Valve tells you "Code on OpenGL that works both here and on windows anyway". If that is the same in your mind you clearly misunderstood Valve and what they are trying to do.

No ones "locked" inside DX, developers aren't forced to code for it And I am not forced to have it installed, if I want to play games on windows then I have to use it, Just like in all likelihood if I want to game on linux I'll have to use steam.  Open or closed source is moot here, One is a company that makes money from the os the other is a company that makes money from the games,  either way we pay.

 

 

You are right there is no difference with a few exceptions. OPENGL (I like how you call it an "equivalent" and don't even name the API) also supports multiple chipsets and can support Mantle with extensions.

 

Big difference? OpenGL has been shown to be slightly faster, and Steam Os is FREE.

 

If you had Win 7, and then were forced to go 8 for direct x, and then buy 9 because 8 sucked...

 

That is 300 freakin dollars for the CHEAPEST versions. That is a GTX 770. 300 bucks for an API to play freakin games, along with notepad, a calculator, and some crappy multimedia software you could have on Linux for nothing. Meanwhile you could have used linux, or Mac OS during that time and paid like 0-50 bucks.

 

Again. OpenGL is faster in WINDOWS then DirectX. There is no reason for DirectX to exist anymore. 

 

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/133824-valve-opengl-is-faster-than-directx-even-on-windows

 

I would much rather have all OpenGL ports on ALL platforms with mantle like extensions for Nvidia/ATI then Direct X, mantle, OpenGL. They have to port most games to OpenGL for Mac/PS4 anyways. 

 

Everyone would have better performance, all cpu's would perform well and you are doing less work coding for 1 API with two extensions.

 

I have now seen "fanboy, haters" in this thread used as arguments. Make me laugh more. If you think game devs want Steam OS/Steam machines to fail, when they make a metric @#%^ ton of money off digital sales compared to getting nothing for used games/rentals on a consoles? You are wrong. They wanted to kill used games on next gen consoles, but couldn't due to outrage.

 

Add to that? Steam Machines will cut down on piracy a bit. One API, less piracy, more profit. The only thing standing in the way is Microsoft. MS hurts gaming, they don't improve it. You have to add 100 dollars to every system build to play a game, which is just stupid.

 

I never said dx was better than opengl, I don't even now why that needs to be said,  At the end of the day steam os will serve a purpose., windows will serve a purpose, dx will serve a purpose and if you think any one of those doesn't need to exist, then it is purely result of a conflict of personal opinion and not a rational appraisal of market technology. 

[deathjester]

No ones "locked" inside DX, developers aren't forced to code for it And I am not forced to have it installed, if I want to play games on windows then I have to use it, Just like in all likelihood if I want to game on linux I'll have to use steam.  Open or closed source is moot here, One is a company that makes money from the os the other is a company that makes money from the games,  either way we pay.

 

 

 

I never said dx was better than opengl, I don't even now why that needs to be said,  At the end of the day steam os will serve a purpose., windows will serve a purpose, dx will serve a purpose and if you think any one of those doesn't need to exist, then it is purely result of a conflict of personal opinion and not a rational appraisal of market technology. 

 

DX will serve a purpose? How. With OpenGL being a faster backend, why would you run DirectX? Why would the game devs bother to port the game to DirectX? Why would an indie game company do Directx when they could sell the game on all other systems/os's that are running OpenGL that include, mobile, mac, nintendo, PS4 AND Windows?

 

Sorry. DirectX should be dead as a game API. As long as MS doesn't bribe some key devs? It will be. Even then? We will see how long the bribes last.

[SheriffHD]

Windows 8, Your were the one

your adverts were cool, sleek, & fun.

You were my first, to get m straight

a fair few years of a pirates wait.

I got you as a sign that I am now legit.

and all I got was a pile of shit.

[mr moose]

DX will serve a purpose? How. With OpenGL being a faster backend, why would you run DirectX? Why would the game devs bother to port the game to DirectX? Why would an indie game company do Directx when they could sell the game on all other systems/os's that are running OpenGL that include, mobile, mac, nintendo, PS4 AND Windows?

 

Sorry. DirectX should be dead as a game API. As long as MS doesn't bribe some key devs? It will be. Even then? We will see how long the bribes last.

you see this is what I am talking about, this is just your opinion and not a reflection of reality,  your angry about it because you hate it, why that is only you will know, but to say it is irrelevant without actually considering that other people have differing needs and opinions is naive.

 

I need windows for work, I also don't want to have to check the games system requirements for compatibility with my hardware like we used to , thus DX serves its intended purpose.  I am not going to buy or run a completely separate computer just to play games if I can do it on my work computer.

 

Just like these other guys, they like windows 8, it works for them, why is that hard to accept.  they find it quicker and easier. It doesn't mean they are part of some conspiracy theory to sell you windows when you want linux. It just means they are happy with the product because for them it works. I had issues the first time I used it and I still have concerns when I use it, but it would be stupid of me to write it off just because of my opinion. 

[Misanthrope]

This is a lie. It's all right there,

Consider that my friendly queue to leave.

[Misanthrope]

you see this is what I am talking about, this is just your opinion and not a reflection of reality,

 

 

You're gonna make me run out of wat's to post. Goes without saying that real reality (and I can't believe I had to made THAT distinction) coincides with what he said: OpenGL works across multiple platforms including the ones he mentions. But I don't mean any disrespect to whatever alternate reality you're referring to of course, it just makes me go well....wat

[mr moose]

 

You're gonna make me run out of wat's to post. Goes without saying that real reality (and I can't believe I had to made THAT distinction) coincides with what he said: OpenGL works across multiple platforms including the ones he mentions. But I don't mean any disrespect to whatever alternate reality you're referring to of course, it just makes me go well....wat

no one is saying that opengl doesn't, it's got nothing to do with that,  The point is simple. different people have different needs and different opinions, when it comes to declaring the validity of a product,  to say a product shouldn't exist because there is one that is better is crazy, their products exist to fill many needs not just the one you or jester seem to think is important. That is my point.  You can glorify opengl till the cows come home, but how good it is is irrelevant,  Windows 8 and dx fills a need and is circumstantially required by some people.  If you can't come to terms with this concept then you are very narrow minded about the relevance of technology across varying demographics.

[kuddlesworth9419]

200 million licenses to vendors not customers. 

[Misanthrope]

no one is saying that opengl doesn't, it's got nothing to do with that,  The point is simple. different people have different needs and different opinions, when it comes to declaring the validity of a product,  to say a product shouldn't exist because there is one that is better is crazy, their products exist to fill many needs not just the one you or jester seem to think is important. That is my point.  You can glorify opengl till the cows come home, but how good it is is irrelevant,  Windows 8 and dx fills a need and is circumstantially required by some people.  If you can't come to terms with this concept then you are very narrow minded about the relevance of technology across varying demographics.

 

No, you're hiding under the banner of being level headed and open minded to basically avoid the subject: Direct X is an inferior product that is designed to force people to stay in windows. You have given no reasons as to why is not technologically inferior, you haven't even addressed the biggest issue of them all: an API that is tied to an exclusive operative system it's designed to force people to stay within that operative system.

Microsoft has proven this openly by hijacking new features to newer operative systems, basically forcing people to update their OS (and henceforth spend their hard-earned money) not because of their hardware isn't capable, or even because the new OS is necessary for a new feature, but just because "fuck you, time to pay for the new OS to keep using newer features"

This are not "opinions" this are real things out in the open you can verify for yourself. This are things that Microsoft does transparently to block any competition. This is as transparent as Apple locking down iOS and OSX, as trasparent as the xbox buying the rights to get exclusive titles to get you to buy their console, nobody is even attempting to hide this. It's not just his opinion, or mine, this are things that happen, facts.

Stop trying to change the subject to "whatever that's like, your opinion man" and discuss why do you think an inferior implementation that is limited to 1 OS should exist. Do so talking about why you think Direct X might technically be superior and drop the fucking philosophy bullshit.

 

[mr moose]

No, you're hiding under the banner of being level headed and open minded to basically avoid the subject: Direct X is an inferior product that is designed to force people to stay in windows. You have given no reasons as to why is not technologically inferior, you haven't even addressed the biggest issue of them all: an API that is tied to an exclusive operative system it's designed to force people to stay within that operative system.

Microsoft has proven this openly by hijacking new features to newer operative systems, basically forcing people to update their OS (and henceforth spend their hard-earned money) not because of their hardware isn't capable, or even because the new OS is necessary for a new feature, but just because "fuck you, time to pay for the new OS to keep using newer features"

This are not "opinions" this are real things out in the open you can verify for yourself. This are things that Microsoft does transparently to block any competition. This is as transparent as Apple locking down iOS and OSX, as trasparent as the xbox buying the rights to get exclusive titles to get you to buy their console, nobody is even attempting to hide this. It's not just his opinion, or mine, this are things that happen, facts.

Stop trying to change the subject to "whatever that's like, your opinion man" and discuss why do you think an inferior implementation that is limited to 1 OS should exist. Do so talking about why you think Direct X might technically be superior and drop the fucking philosophy bullshit.

 

there you go again, I am not talking about which product performs better, are you capable of addressing the discussion without referring to performance, I have been and still are talking solely about product legitimacy.  

 

Jester said:

 

 

Again. OpenGL is faster in WINDOWS then DirectX. There is no reason for DirectX to exist anymore. 

 

He is stating in absolutes that there is no reason for DX to exist.  All I am saying is there is, and I already gave a reason for it.

EDIT: not only this but if game devs code for opengl in windows then the argument about dx being designed to force people to use windows or upgrade to win 8 is irrelevant because you can just choose to use opengl or mantle.

 

I need windows for work, I also don't want to have to check the games system requirements for compatibility with my hardware like we used to , thus DX serves its intended purpose.  I am not going to buy or run a completely separate computer just to play games if I can do it on my work computer.

 

But all you two can talk about is how good opengl is and how bad windows 8 is,  who gives a crap if you think windows 8 is bad that's just an opinion it is no more relevant than the others who think it is good. the point is simple, while people either want or need a product then that product has a reason to exist.

 

In different words:

 

A products performance is not the only criteria in determining which product is best suited.  E.G, I tried setting up a Debian server for home, I gave it two weeks solid learning the commands, getting my head around the file structure, but at the end of the day I just couldn't do it,  now I know Debian will make a far superior server to most windows machines (if not all), just not in my scenario. Ergo win xp was the OS of choice. To a professional Linux coder it would have been exactly the opposite, however it both cases one product is superior but the other product is better suited.  

[SheriffHD]

Windows 8 was the first OS I purchased. I can now happily say. That I will never buy another OS again becuase of how shockingly shit windows 8 is, 4 fucking days ive had it, and it has been nothing but problems.