Let's talk about achievements...

[Soag]

Okay, to set the tone, I'll right off the bat say that I hate them.

I have reasons, though. And am willing to have a constructive discussion, hence this topic.

Please hear me out, comment on it and provide your own opinions on the matter. Here we go!

 

Soooo, I may admit that the sole idea may not be that bad...BUT.

That 'but' is how game devs implement it IMO.

To me it seems they mostly just throw them in to reach certain amount of those, irrelevant whether they have a meaning or not.

The usual 'kill x number of enemies' in its various variations (of a type, with a weapon, in a way etc.), to me, is just pure bullshittery.

It has ZERO meaning to the player, it exists just for the purpose of existence. Let's be honest, you enjoy knowing you just killed a 15th headless enemy with a shotgun? I'm willing to bet it's no different than the 5th, 10th or 20th.

The ones about finishing a chapter could be gone just as well. It seems like they only serve as markers for how far into the story a player has gotten. Sure, when done right they can provide some entertainment, so there's that at least. But 'done right' rarely happens.

 

My belief is an achievement is there to tell a player 'you've done something cool, extraordinary or otherwise meaningful'.

To empower him and make him feel good about what he just done. In short: to provide a form of amusement.

 

I'm so thrown off when I hear people are 'farming platinums'. Replaying sections over and over just to get some of that insignificant crap.

It then looks like an artificial way devs used to prolong the lifespan of a title. To make it seem longer than it actually is. Simply: a dirty tactic.

 

And the worst of the worst, to me, is when they influence the decision-making within the game.

When you, as a player, are given a choice but you also know there's some achievement down one of the roads.

So you do have a choice, yes, but at the same time youre're kinda pushed towards one of the routes.

One has a payoff and one doeasn't and for our feeble brains conditioned for reward system the choice that was given just feels fake and completely takes away the fun you were meant to have. The fun of 'creating your variation of the story'.

 

I know there are many other aspects I could mention and many others I overlooked but I've been trying to create this topic for a few days and always ended up shifting my focus, so let's let the beast out.

I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

[Eigenvektor]

If you don't like them, simply ignore them? For example, if you disable Steam overlay, you won't ever see that you've gotten one. You'll still see it in the Steam client, of course, but like I said, you can simply ignore it?

 

For me personally, achievements sometimes add some value, because there can be fun in achieving them. Of course, that depends on the type of achievement, something like "kill 10,000,000 enemies" is just boring grind.

 

Personally, I've always found "automatic achievements" to be kind of interesting, because it allows you to see how far others have played. I always find it weird, when a game shows me that e.g. only 10% of players have completed the game. I'm sure that's valuable feedback to developers, too.

[yaya1]

Interesting approach, I think I've thought about that before, but honestly, I think it's just personal preference.

Even if there are achievements, you - as dumb as it may sound - are given the option to try to complete them, and although I can very much see how one can feel forced to try to complete them, you're not forced to.
I just think they can feel rewarding in some way, although again: it really depends on the execution. Meaning killing that really difficult boss in a side quest you would've taken anyways without losing any hp might feel very rewarding, especially if not a lot of people have it. But again: you might feel forced to play differently than you normally would or feel annoyed by them.

[Soag]

It's not so much that I don't like them popping up.

In my case a remedy is self-discipline. A strong will not to look them up before gameplay.

When I know I can get something I will opt for it.

Like in Bioshock Infinite I've been killing enemies with a pistol when I already had machine gun just because I was missing few kills for the achievement.

Now that I think about it the frustration might be coming from realizing I'm not strong-willed enough to ignore them...

[minibois]

The original intent (which I feel like has been rarely achieved) is kind of gone in achievements.

When I like a game, might go for achievements. Which means I only completed 2 games with it..

 

What usually deters me from achievement hunting is that the original intent for then in my mind is "you can do things in this game, lots of things. In order to make sure our player enjoys all these things, we will encourage them to do it with pretty badges (and gamerpoints)"

 

That original intent can still be kind of found in the "X amount of kills with weapon Y". That way you know your players will use all weaponclasses and such. They do this with seemingly no reason though, no endgoal. 

You do it just so you play the game a ton..

 

The games I do have all the achievements in are Skyrim (can't remember if I did it in normal and SE, or just one..) and Sonic Generations.

The achievements in both these games are quite normal too (other than some).

Like Skyrim has quite a few that are just "finish this entire questline" and such. Same for Sonic.

 

They do have some specific stuff, like Sonic asking you to clear a certain stage in 60 seconds..

 

There are very many 'just do this' kind of achievements in Skyrim though.

Stuff like "buy three plots of land and build a house on all", "Go to this one person and change your face (literally)". Those are 'just do it's type quests which kind of defeats the purpose...

 

There are also achievements which make you play the game in a very specific way..

Like 'Collect 15 daedric artifacts' can easily be done wrong by answering the wrong thing in a conversation with a character, meaning you would have to restart/go back to a previous save.

There is a very small chance you did that achievement on your own without the help of a guide...

 

What it comes down to: an achievement should be there to encourage the player to do something which you otherwise might not, but shouldn't be some arbitrary 'just do that thing'-quest, which many do wrong.

[Soag]

1 hour ago, minibois said:

encourage the player to do something which you otherwise might not

I have a hell of a good example for that one.

I played XCOM: Enemy Unknown pretty much without looking up achievements.

I had tons of fun so when I finished the game I looked them up as I wanted to play some more, so why not checking what else is there.

And I found out you can actually use that item for catching aliens on those human enemies fraction and they will kill themselves so you get no intel out of them.

I never did that as I thought the item is alien specific and thought 'you know, that's a cool interaction'. Had I done it just to test things out I bet that would be a cool thing to both see and be recognized for (in a form of achievement).

[theinquisitor1989]

I love achievements. In The Division they appear as a number on your character visible to all other players. I can show off/ It gives me bragging rights. If they were hidden to other players I wouldn't even touch them.

[Worstcaster]

It is one of those things that either interests you or it doesn't.  I usually won't chase a 100% achievements, because my interest in the game wanes once I get through the plot.  On PC achievements mean even less because they can be activated via mods (although that is about as satisfying as cheating at solitaire and impresses as many people).  On the up shot if you are looking to avoid achievements the epic games store currently does not have any.

[Soag]

17 hours ago, Worstcaster said:

you are looking to avoid achievements the epic games store currently does not have any.

I know and that's, in my book, one of the advantages over steam.

Unfortunately, according to their Trello board, they will implement it someday.

[Tonberry]

When you see there is a tank in your team which has "3rd" Marks of Excellence on its gun barrel (achievement) in World of Tanks, you know there is a big chance he will carry everyone in the team.

 

I guess that is one of examples about effect of achievement in game. For its owner it's kind of a pride, and for other people who sees it it's like either safety factor or doom in the battle.

[Praesi]

I dont care about them at all.