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Linus said on WAN show that 30fps is preferred over 60fps among LTT viewers. Is that true?

poochyena
By poochyena
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Do you prefer watching youtube videos at 30 or 60 fps?  

221 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you prefer watching youtube videos at 30 or 60 fps?

    • 30
      71
    • 60
      150

Posted

30 fps because I can't see much of a difference and it's much easier on my internet

 

But what I think would be the most useful tool is for youtube to have an option for viewers to see a 60 fps video at 30 fps. 

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Posted
10 hours ago, AdmiralKyrd said:

I would agree in theory, but in practice...

1. Shooting at 60/30/24fps is going to change how you handle the shutter speed of the camera, so playing a 60fps video back at 24fps isn't going to look as good as if it was originally shot for 24fps, or it's gonna look sub-optimal for 60fps if you shot 60fps with a 24fps shutter angle.

2. But more importantly this isn't how youtube operates. I jump between youtube on many machines. Sometimes its on a 4KTV, sometimes an 4th gen i7, sometimes a late 2000's laptop. If you watch videos at 1080p on an older system, it can play great at 30fps or 24fps. I watch one video at 1080p, another at 1080p, then I run into a 1080p60 video... my performance effectively halts to... nothing. I see 1 frame every twenty seconds.

 

 

Let's stop right here and address how Youtube REALLY does video encoding.

 

This comes from dozens of experiments over time.

 

So several years ago, I uploaded straight ZMBV (from DOSBOX) footage to youtube. The footage that comes straight out of DOSBOX is straight 320x200x8bpp@70fps non-corrected for aspect ratio.

 

This is fine, I can fix it. So I would run it through virtualdub and upscale it to 720p, 1080, and even one time managed to make youtube accept a 2160p version. 

 

Now in order to make the video as small as possible I tampered with the key-framing. So the results were like so:

1) Virgin Dosbox footage (320x200x70p 8bpp) : Youtube would convert to 360p, and stretch to fill the screen. It was ugly, gross, and unbearable to watch and listen to. Some palettes would fail and the output would be garbage.

2) 720p30 (32bpp), 1080p30 (32bpp), with normal keyframing: This plays back at a cleaner rate, but because it's converting it from RGB32 to YUV420 incorrectly, the color detail got muddier and all the hard edges were lost, typically making the edges of everything look blurry.

3) 720p60 (32bpp), 1080p60 (32bpp), tampered keyframes: In order to get a file under the 2GB size limit I had to adjust the keyframes. So I uploaded videos with less and less keyframing and discovered REALLY how youtube handles videos. The less keyframes, the less seek-ability youtube has.

 

Cause you know what Youtube does? It encodes that haven't been seen before, on the fly, and adding to that, videos that haven't been seen in a while are also done on the fly. So if you give it a video that is hard to decode, it will be unable to seek because it doesn't keep copies of video in every resolution. It only keeps it in thumbnail size, if at all so you can use the seeking feature. On these dosbox ZMBV videos, the seeking frames would typically be blank.

 

If I go try and play any of these videos I have set to unlisted/private, it will always start with the "unable to play" prompt the first time, because it obviously has to retrieve it from somewhere first. Reloading it will then only allow it to be played from the beginning, because it doesn't have any keyframes. At least until it's managed to play it from start-to-end once.

 

This is why you upload video in EXACTLY the way you want it to be seen. If your viewers are unable, or unwilling to watch it in that format, youtube will encode a version that their playback settings will accept. 

 

If you upload a video, to save your own bandwidth, eg let's say I uploaded all dosbox videos at 240p. Youtube doesn't integer-scale or aspect-ratio-correct any output, so the result is a mess. Every time, without question.

 

When you record raw 4Kp60 from a webcam, that is the maximum that webcam can do, and requires no post-processing. You can upload that footage to youtube as-is.

 

And yet if you go "oh, well nobody actually watches it 60fps", that's besides the damn point. That is you deciding for your viewers rather than your viewers deciding. Hell many people watch videos in a window on a PC, and are unlikely to be watching them on a smartTV where only 720p60, 1080p60 and 2160p are likely to be preferred. 

 

To be complete here, let's also mention HDR. If you want your viewers to be able to watch a HDR version of the video, it has to be set at HDR settings.

 

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7126552?hl=en

 

Quote

720p, 1080p, 1440p, 2160p
For best results, use UHD rather than DCI widths (for example, 3840x1600 instead of 4096x1716).

Hmm, now why would this be...

 

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6375112

Quote

Recommended resolution & aspect ratios

For the default 16:9 aspect ratio, encode at these resolutions:

  • 2160p: 3840x2160
  • 1440p: 2560x1440
  • 1080p: 1920x1080
  • 720p: 1280x720
  • 480p: 854x480
  • 360p: 640x360
  • 240p: 426x240
Was this helpful?

Of course, because none of the sub-720p resolutions are standards that anyone uses and would NEVER have a HDR profile right?

 

This is again, assumptions. Despite youtube clearly being popular for cat videos from smartphones and people recording themselves playing video games, they some how decided that nobody would ever record non-HD games. If you are recording a non-HD game, you have to upscale it yourself, or your footage ends up rubbish too. It's still GIGO, but in this case you're compensating for issues caused by Youtube.

 

You know what else Youtube does poorly? Videos converted from Flash.

 

This was another chain of experiments I did, both using dosbox's ZMBV codec and with straight h.264 conversion.

 

The first problem that happens when you upload anything with solid color gradients to youtube is that youtube will "compress" the gradient into several solid colors. That's not good. So in order to preserve color gradients, you also have to add noise to the entire video. So what would normally allow a flash animation to be 1MB, now turns it into a 2GB input file.

 

The second problem that happens when you convert flash animations to h.264, is that the color profile is utterly destroyed. I see this frequently on youtube, and it's like "ugh, the curse of Adobe Flash continues"

 

I, kinda hope that when Adobe ceases development of Flash, that they contribute the animation player code to the FFMPEG project so that proper encodes of SWF files can be made by youtube.

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Posted
On 11/10/2019 at 9:04 PM, Kisai said:

 

“Let's stop right here and address how Youtube REALLY does video encoding.”

 

Let me stop you and reiterate that it is NOT just about how youtube is encoding it is about what formats they choose to deliver in, 

On 11/10/2019 at 9:04 PM, Kisai said:

This is why you upload video in EXACTLY the way you want it to be seen. If your viewers are unable, or unwilling to watch it in that format, youtube will encode a version that their playback settings will accept. 

 

If you upload a video, to save your own bandwidth, eg let's say I uploaded all dosbox videos at 240p. Youtube doesn't integer-scale or aspect-ratio-correct any output, so the result is a mess. Every time, without question.

 

When you record raw 4Kp60 from a webcam, that is the maximum that webcam can do, and requires no post-processing. You can upload that footage to youtube as-is.

 

And yet if you go "oh, well nobody actually watches it 60fps", that's besides the damn point. That is you deciding for your viewers rather than your viewers deciding. Hell many people watch videos in a window on a PC, and are unlikely to be watching them on a smartTV where only 720p60, 

 

All this talk about 60fps and encoding goes out the window since as has been described in here already, youtube doesn’t offer 1080p/30 from material uploaded in 1080p+ /60 which has many complications unless your system is ideal, so content creators are forced to cripple their content to give access to a broad audience. The same happened when they took away the &fmt=18 tricks they took away all the 360p/480p videos and made it 240p/480p/720p etc. effectively screwing a bunch of people over and just another example that you cannot expect youtube to give you or your viewers what you want.

 

In other words, support other (preferably smaller, independent, free, freedom of speech advocate platforms, or upload to your own server, not a giant tech platform that obviously don’t care about small creators or leaving options for people to see content unobstructed and without having their content blocked or demonitized. Look into the history of Google/YouTube and what’s going on, do you really wanna put your content on such an infringing corrupt platform? 

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Posted

I did not vote.  My in my opinion whatever work for you in your content and what you want to produce as a style of your work should not be voted on.  Art is a subjective choice of elements that creates a statement or story that one wants to tell. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, torbenscharling said:

 

Let me stop you and reiterate that it is NOT just about how youtube is encoding it is about what formats they choose to deliver in, 

 

 

You're either wrong, or you're lying.

 

This is from a 4Kp60 video: 

<Stream: itag="22" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.64001F" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="43" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp8.0" acodec="vorbis">, 
<Stream: itag="18" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.42001E" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="313" mime_type="video/webm" res="2160p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="315" mime_type="video/webm" res="2160p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="271" mime_type="video/webm" res="1440p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="308" mime_type="video/webm" res="1440p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="137" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.640028">, 
<Stream: itag="248" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="299" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="60fps" vcodec="avc1.64002a">, 
<Stream: itag="303" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="136" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">, 
<Stream: itag="247" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="298" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="60fps" vcodec="avc1.4d4020">, 
<Stream: itag="302" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="135" mime_type="video/mp4" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">, 
<Stream: itag="244" mime_type="video/webm" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="134" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">, 
<Stream: itag="243" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="133" mime_type="video/mp4" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400d">, 
<Stream: itag="242" mime_type="video/webm" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="160" mime_type="video/mp4" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400c">, 
<Stream: itag="278" mime_type="video/webm" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="140" mime_type="audio/mp4" abr="128kbps" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="249" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="50kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="250" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="70kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="251" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="160kbps" acodec="opus">

This is from a LTT 4KP30 video 


<Stream: itag="22" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.64001F" acodec="mp4a.40.2">,
<Stream: itag="18" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.42001E" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="313" mime_type="video/webm" res="2160p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">,
<Stream: itag="271" mime_type="video/webm" res="1440p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="137" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.640028">,
<Stream: itag="248" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="136" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">, 
<Stream: itag="247" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="135" mime_type="video/mp4" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">,
<Stream: itag="244" mime_type="video/webm" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="134" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">,
<Stream: itag="243" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">,
<Stream: itag="133" mime_type="video/mp4" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400d">,
<Stream: itag="242" mime_type="video/webm" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="160" mime_type="video/mp4" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400c">,
<Stream: itag="278" mime_type="video/webm" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">,
<Stream: itag="140" mime_type="audio/mp4" abr="128kbps" acodec="mp4a.40.2">,
<Stream: itag="249" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="50kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="250" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="70kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="251" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="160kbps" acodec="opus">

As you can see stream 313 is the 30fps 4K stream, and stream 315 is only in the 4Kp60 stream.

 

YouTube makes all the streams available.

 

There's even an extension to override it

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/turn-off-the-lights-for-y/bfbmjmiodbnnpllbbbfblcplfjjepjdn

 

I've not personally used that extension but I'm pointing out that this is simply Youtube not presenting the 30fps streams when the 60fps streams exist, the 30fps streams still exist.

 

And before anyone goes nuts, those stream id's are in the "stats for nerds" overlay.

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Posted

I watch 60 where I can but I imagine that most people are just letting YT auto-select and YT is picking 30 due to bandwidth concerns, or are watching on a platform that doesn't support it. 

Intel 11700K - Gigabyte 3080 Ti- Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Pro - Sabrent Rocket NVME - Corsair 16GB DDR4

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Posted
1 hour ago, Kisai said:

You're either wrong, or you're lying.

 

This is from a 4Kp60 video: 


<Stream: itag="22" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.64001F" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="43" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp8.0" acodec="vorbis">, 
<Stream: itag="18" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.42001E" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="313" mime_type="video/webm" res="2160p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="315" mime_type="video/webm" res="2160p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="271" mime_type="video/webm" res="1440p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="308" mime_type="video/webm" res="1440p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="137" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.640028">, 
<Stream: itag="248" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="299" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="60fps" vcodec="avc1.64002a">, 
<Stream: itag="303" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="136" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">, 
<Stream: itag="247" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="298" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="60fps" vcodec="avc1.4d4020">, 
<Stream: itag="302" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="60fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="135" mime_type="video/mp4" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">, 
<Stream: itag="244" mime_type="video/webm" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="134" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">, 
<Stream: itag="243" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="133" mime_type="video/mp4" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400d">, 
<Stream: itag="242" mime_type="video/webm" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="160" mime_type="video/mp4" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400c">, 
<Stream: itag="278" mime_type="video/webm" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="140" mime_type="audio/mp4" abr="128kbps" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="249" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="50kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="250" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="70kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="251" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="160kbps" acodec="opus">

This is from a LTT 4KP30 video 


<Stream: itag="22" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.64001F" acodec="mp4a.40.2">,
<Stream: itag="18" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.42001E" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="313" mime_type="video/webm" res="2160p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">,
<Stream: itag="271" mime_type="video/webm" res="1440p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="137" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.640028">,
<Stream: itag="248" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="136" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">, 
<Stream: itag="247" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="135" mime_type="video/mp4" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">,
<Stream: itag="244" mime_type="video/webm" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="134" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">,
<Stream: itag="243" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">,
<Stream: itag="133" mime_type="video/mp4" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400d">,
<Stream: itag="242" mime_type="video/webm" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="160" mime_type="video/mp4" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400c">,
<Stream: itag="278" mime_type="video/webm" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">,
<Stream: itag="140" mime_type="audio/mp4" abr="128kbps" acodec="mp4a.40.2">,
<Stream: itag="249" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="50kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="250" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="70kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="251" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="160kbps" acodec="opus">

As you can see stream 313 is the 30fps 4K stream, and stream 315 is only in the 4Kp60 stream.

 

YouTube makes all the streams available.

 

There's even an extension to override it

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/turn-off-the-lights-for-y/bfbmjmiodbnnpllbbbfblcplfjjepjdn

 

I've not personally used that extension but I'm pointing out that this is simply Youtube not presenting the 30fps streams when the 60fps streams exist, the 30fps streams still exist.

 

And before anyone goes nuts, those stream id's are in the "stats for nerds" overlay.

So you're telling me I'm wrong because you have a chrome extension that can give you the 30fps video option? That means I'm right still. The world doesn't revolve around Chrome og Google bro.

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26 minutes ago, torbenscharling said:

So you're telling me I'm wrong because you have a chrome extension that can give you the 30fps video option? That means I'm right still. The world doesn't revolve around Chrome og Google bro.

You're wrong, because your assertion that Youtube doesn't provide the streams is wrong. Maybe this is just Youtube overlooking things, or maybe it's an assumption (typical google) that if your device is capable of p60 it should automatically do p60.

 

At any rate if you're concerned about data use, you wouldn't be making the decision between p60 and p30, you'd be selecting 480p only. If your device is such a POS that it can't deal with p60 content, then again, you would not be selecting the 1080p content.

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1 minute ago, Kisai said:

You're wrong, because your assertion that Youtube doesn't provide the streams is wrong. Maybe this is just Youtube overlooking things, or maybe it's an assumption (typical google) that if your device is capable of p60 it should automatically do p60.

 

At any rate if you're concerned about data use, you wouldn't be making the decision between p60 and p30, you'd be selecting 480p only. If your device is such a POS that it can't deal with p60 content, then again, you would not be selecting the 1080p content.

'the only thing I'm "concerned" with is you claiming I'm wrong. YOU are wrong. YOUTUBE DOES NOT PROVIDE THE 30FPS OPTION WHEN 60FPSCONTENT IS UPLOADED

 

Regardless of whatever politicial side you may be on whatever you're on about is pure rubbish. Talk about facts, not this maybe this maybe that.

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3 hours ago, torbenscharling said:

'the only thing I'm "concerned" with is you claiming I'm wrong. YOU are wrong. YOUTUBE DOES NOT PROVIDE THE 30FPS OPTION WHEN 60FPSCONTENT IS UPLOADED

 

Regardless of whatever politicial side you may be on whatever you're on about is pure rubbish. Talk about facts, not this maybe this maybe that.

Yet, I showed you exactly what streams were offered to the device. 60fps and 30fps. If the device chooses to ignore it, that is the device manufacturer or Youtube's own app doing that. That is not "it won't offer me a 30fps stream if a 60fps stream exists"

 

And as I've pointed out, people have written extensions for this edge case.

https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/23329-disable-youtube-60-fps-force-30-fps

 

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9 hours ago, Kisai said:

Yet, I showed you exactly what streams were offered to the device. 60fps and 30fps. If the device chooses to ignore it, that is the device manufacturer or Youtube's own app doing that. That is not "it won't offer me a 30fps stream if a 60fps stream exists"

 

And as I've pointed out, people have written extensions for this edge case.

https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/23329-disable-youtube-60-fps-force-30-fps

 

You and @torbenscharling are conflating two issues.

 

He is stating that when you go onto YouTube (vanilla experience), if a video is 60 FPS, it does not offer you the option of selecting 1080p30. This is an indesputable fact.

 

Regardless of the fact that YouTube does technically offer the capability, hidden. So yes, you can use third party extensions to unlock the 30 FPS stream that does exist, it is never the less a hidden option for the vast majority of users (since I would assume most users don't use third party YouTube extensions).

 

It's YouTube's own app that is doing it.

 

So you're wrong and he's wrong, but for different reasons.

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Posted
10 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

You and @torbenscharling are conflating two issues.

 

He is stating that when you go onto YouTube (vanilla experience), if a video is 60 FPS, it does not offer you the option of selecting 1080p30. This is an indesputable fact.

 

Regardless of the fact that YouTube does technically offer the capability, hidden. So yes, you can use third party extensions to unlock the 30 FPS stream that does exist, it is never the less a hidden option for the vast majority of users (since I would assume most users don't use third party YouTube extensions).

 

It's YouTube's own app that is doing it.

 

So you're wrong and he's wrong, but for different reasons.

Now you're wrong about me being wrong. I never stated that it wasn't technically possible, like I explained since I know my history, there was the &fmt feature, which was an equally geeky hidden feature. They purposely removed that as soon as they found out it was becoming popular amongst people to add that to the end of their url before sharing a video, so that it would play in the optimal quality and you could even embed that fmt code into embededded videos, evil Google didn't like that. So please tell me if I was so wrong, WHERE ARE ALL THE 360P VIDEOS AT ?!!!

 

Ok so there's an extension that no normal user knows about - I'm asuming it'll only work for anyone who also has that extension installed, thus still no embedding a forced quality onto your website for certainty the audience will see it in that quality, and thus I am not wrong one bit, my statement as you rightfully clarify is what 99% of youtube users experience AKA VANILLA EXPERIENC HAS NO 30 FPS OPTION FOR 60FPS UPLOADED CONTENT

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Posted
11 hours ago, torbenscharling said:

Now you're wrong about me being wrong.

Seriously dude?

11 hours ago, torbenscharling said:

I never stated that it wasn't technically possible, like I explained since I know my history, there was the &fmt feature, which was an equally geeky hidden feature.

I was agreeing with you.

11 hours ago, torbenscharling said:

They purposely removed that as soon as they found out it was becoming popular amongst people to add that to the end of their url before sharing a video, so that it would play in the optimal quality and you could even embed that fmt code into embededded videos, evil Google didn't like that. So please tell me if I was so wrong, WHERE ARE ALL THE 360P VIDEOS AT ?!!!

I was agreeing with you here too.

11 hours ago, torbenscharling said:

Ok so there's an extension that no normal user knows about - I'm asuming it'll only work for anyone who also has that extension installed, thus still no embedding a forced quality onto your website for certainty the audience will see it in that quality, and thus I am not wrong one bit, my statement as you rightfully clarify is what 99% of youtube users experience AKA VANILLA EXPERIENC HAS NO 30 FPS OPTION FOR 60FPS UPLOADED CONTENT

I also agree with you here.

 

Which is exactly what I said. You were wrong in the sense that yes, "technically" YouTube still offers the 30 FPS streams. But you're right on a practical level. Without third party extensions, you can't choose that option on a 60 FPS video without dropping to 720p I believe.

 

Which is what @Kisai was getting hung up on. He's right in that "technically" the stream options are still there. However, you're also right in that no normal user can access those streams - they have to use third party tools.

 

So, can you two move on now? Or at least agree with each of your respective points and stop calling each other wrong?

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Posted

I'm cheaping out on bandwith in favor of price, capacity and latency.

 

So 60fps causes problem for my 4K 1.5MB/s aspirations

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Posted
3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

So, can you two move on now? Or at least agree with each of your respective points and stop calling each other wrong?

 

I appreciate that you felt the need to mediate there, but if you go back to why I originally replied to this one:

The guy had no intent of adding to the conversation, and hasn't added to the conversation, just fighting because he doesn't want to be wrong.

 

I've spent years doing things with youtube, and I know for fact what it's doing. So I'm not wrong at all here.

 

- Youtube encodes on the fly

- It only encodes based on what it has, so if you don't upload a p60 stream, you don't get a p60 stream.

- It uses the best available stream on the player/device. That is the player making that decision, not youtube. Since the youtube player is part of the website, they certainly could present different settings depending on the device you are connecting with.

- If you are really concerned about the bandwidth, you then pick 480p, as that is both 30fps and the lowest acceptable quality on most devices.

- There are extensions for chrome and firefox that can tell youtube to prefer the 30fps video stream even when a 60fps would be the one offered, that's your choice if you're that hungup about it.

 

The only reason you would upload p30 content at all would be:

- Your device doesn't export 60fps content (eg an older phone that doesn't record 4Kp60 for example)

- You software doesn't export 60fps, or the input content was 30fps (GIGO) thus wouldn't improve the output.

 

If you go take a look at animation content on Youtube, you'll actually notice that some actually run at 24fps.

image.png.0f84cf96e3828c5bf1205a42bcf05221.png

 

But the streams offered are as follows: 

<Stream: itag="22" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.64001F" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="43" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp8.0" acodec="vorbis">, 
<Stream: itag="18" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.42001E" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="137" mime_type="video/mp4" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.640028">, 
<Stream: itag="248" mime_type="video/webm" res="1080p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="136" mime_type="video/mp4" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401f">, 
<Stream: itag="247" mime_type="video/webm" res="720p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="135" mime_type="video/mp4" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">, 
<Stream: itag="244" mime_type="video/webm" res="480p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="134" mime_type="video/mp4" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d401e">, 
<Stream: itag="243" mime_type="video/webm" res="360p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="133" mime_type="video/mp4" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d4015">, 
<Stream: itag="242" mime_type="video/webm" res="240p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="160" mime_type="video/mp4" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="avc1.4d400c">, 
<Stream: itag="278" mime_type="video/webm" res="144p" fps="30fps" vcodec="vp9">, 
<Stream: itag="140" mime_type="audio/mp4" abr="128kbps" acodec="mp4a.40.2">, 
<Stream: itag="249" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="50kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="250" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="70kbps" acodec="opus">, 
<Stream: itag="251" mime_type="audio/webm" abr="160kbps" acodec="opus">

That means selecting the 30fps stream may in fact be a 24fps stream. There are HDMI screens and some set-top boxes that support 1080p24 but not p60.  HDMI specifications (1.4) actually only list 30hz (29.97) as being valid for 720p and 1080p, no other resolution. So a 480p/480i player is always supposed to be 60hz. HDMI spec 2.0 adds 4k (2160p) @ p24, p30, p50, p60.

 

So it can be assumed that selecting 720p/1080p doesn't guarantee a "p30" stream, only that selecting a p60 stream guarantees a p60 stream.

 

There is nothing to refute here.

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  • 3 months later...
Posted

[deteted]

 

If only my reading comprehension and thread age detection ran at 60fps. ;)

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Posted
3 hours ago, PerpetualToddler said:

Which wan show was this?

Look around the date of the OP.

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12 hours ago, PerpetualToddler said:

Which wan show was this?

Locked for pointless necro.

^^^^ That's my post ^^^^
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