Linus's speculation about SteamOS was plain wrong

[rashdanml]

Sigh, installing Steam OS on a desktop is lunacy -snip-

This is very limited thinking to be honest. 

 

1) SteamOS has a desktop mode that's a fully-fledged, Linux desktop. The ONLY reason it's limited right now is due to lack of repositories where all of the Debian packages reside, BUT Valve has already incorporated Debian repositories in their latest update for SteamOS and plan on including most of the necessary packages in their own Steam repository. It is not simply Linux with Steam running in Big picture, far from it. Pretty sure direct-to-desktop boot will become an option in SteamOS if it isn't already in the recent update. 

 

2) The installation is only a pain because it's far from done. Steam Machines aren't due till at least halfway through the year, and we have 5 months to go. The installation process has already been made easier, and I'd anticipate it to be even easier once it's ready to be launched. 

 

3) It's built with Debian as a core. Debian is both a desktop and a server OS. It's MORE than capable of operating as a desktop and is potentially powerful enough to rival Windows. 

 

4) SteamOS was made for people who wanted to take advantage of the benefit of Linux-specific optimizations without having to go through the cumbersome (based on the distribution chosen) process of installing the distribution, then installing Steam. In many cases, simply installing SteamOS would save a lot of time (once it's actually been perfected) going through the setup process of a different distribution. It was also made for hardware vendors wanting a quick and easy OS to include with their machine. 

[neon]

This is very limited thinking to be honest. 

 

1) SteamOS has a desktop mode that's a fully-fledged, Linux desktop. The ONLY reason it's limited right now is due to lack of repositories where all of the Debian packages reside, BUT Valve has already incorporated Debian repositories in their latest update for SteamOS and plan on including most of the necessary packages in their own Steam repository. It is not simply Linux with Steam running in Big picture, far from it. Pretty sure direct-to-desktop boot will become an option in SteamOS if it isn't already in the recent update. 

 

2) The installation is only a pain because it's far from done. Steam Machines aren't due till at least halfway through the year, and we have 5 months to go. The installation process has already been made easier, and I'd anticipate it to be even easier once it's ready to be launched. 

 

3) It's built with Debian as a core. Debian is both a desktop and a server OS. It's MORE than capable of operating as a desktop and is potentially powerful enough to rival Windows. 

 

4) SteamOS was made for people who wanted to take advantage of the benefit of Linux-specific optimizations without having to go through the cumbersome (based on the distribution chosen) process of installing the distribution, then installing Steam. In many cases, simply installing SteamOS would save a lot of time (once it's actually been perfected) going through the setup process of a different distribution. It was also made for hardware vendors wanting a quick and easy OS to include with their machine.

It is not limited thinking at all, make no mistake I fully know the possibilities, but this is exactly how Valve has designed SteamOS, it is a living room OS with a 10 foot interface, just because it is based on a full Linux OS and has a way to get to the desktop does not mean it is designed to be used on a desktop, Valve has specifically said as much, that it is not a replacement for a desktop OS.

 

The fact that all the Steam OS hardware is primarily designed for the living room I think is proof that Valve is gunning for the living room space of PC gamers, yes I am sure and know we will get some enthusiasts installing and using Steam OS as a desktop OS, customising it just how they want it, but that is only going to be for the determined, as you say it is just plain old Debian Linux under the hood but there is no reason to choose Steam OS over say Ubuntu and just install Steam which with big picture mode can do everything Steam OS can do.

Whereas on the flip side Ubuntu is not an OS you want to use on a TV (even though I know they have a TV mode in the works) but Steam OS.

 

This is where Valve is cleaver, they are not making money from Steam OS they do not care if you use Steam OS, their one goal and the one thing they care about is that you use (and buy stuff from) Steam so they need it accessible in all places.  They identified a gap in the market that they were not in the living room space, they added Big Picture Mode to Windows but Windows is not a living room OS (even though they tried with WMC).  Then they have brought Steam to OS X and Linux, both with Big Picture Mode but with the same problem neither are a living room OS, they have wrapped up the desktop OS's, but no-one has a living room OS which they can put Steam on, as we know the living room at the moment is completely ruled by Playstation and Xbox two places they can never put Steam, so they have taken it into their own hands to produce one, Steam OS is designed to be a simple OS that anyone can use I'm sure the perfect goal is to somehow take over from PS and Xbox, for the time being Steam OS will be only really relevant to PC gamers who have the power to stream their games, but hopefully as game support comes to Linux it can be a very viable contender to PS and Xbox.

 

The only benefit to Valve in making Steam OS an OS you can install on a desktop (boot to desktop, ect. ect.) is that it would come with Steam pre installed, but I don't see Valve putting a lot of resources in it, they have Steam on Linux already, in Ubuntu it's painfully easy to install it, in others it's a couple of copy and pastes in Terminal, anyone who wants Steam can easily get it already.

 

Steam OS (in my mind) is a living room OS for the foreseeable future, I did say they could add a 'boot to desktop' option but I just cannot see them positioning it as a desktop OS any time soon.

[DroPouT1999]

Apparently Gates never said that.

I didn't hear it first hand but all my IT teachers use that line if we say we can't do the work

[fojacko]

The irony is that DICE almost certainly has an OSX and Linux port of Frostbite running internally.

 

Do they? I can kinda see why they'd have OSX (see how well the game runs on imac's and macbook pro's via bootcamp), but I don't see why they'd have Linux.

[Whiskers]

Given Microsoft's complete disregard for PC gaming over the last decade, they're almost lucky at this point that we haven't moved en masse to another OS.

 

They dropped the ball a long time ago, and they're really lucky that no-one else has come along and taken the ball for themselves. If they don't start trying to improve Windows as a gaming platform, things like Steam OS will indisputably take over at some point - it's just a question of when.

[Ertman]

I didn't hear it first hand but all my IT teachers use that line if we say we can't do the work

Right now it is an urban myth. Gates said he never said it, and there is no corroboration that can be found. It likely started with someone taking what he said out of context and passing it along as fact. Even by that time there was tremendous growth in technology, there would be no logical reason for him to make that statement, if he knew anything about computers.

 

Your teachers likely heard like everyone else, but hey if it works then keep using it.

[Ertman]

Given Microsoft's complete disregard for PC gaming over the last decade, they're almost lucky at this point that we haven't moved en masse to another OS.

 

They dropped the ball a long time ago, and they're really lucky that no-one else has come along and taken the ball for themselves. If they don't start trying to improve Windows as a gaming platform, things like Steam OS will indisputably take over at some point - it's just a question of when.

 

Not to quibble, but the problem is inertia. Basically there is so many people using windows and so much barrier for competition (software available on a given platform), it makes it extremely difficult for large dramatic shifts like that. The strongest direct competitor to Windows will still be Linux and I am surprised it hasn't gained more traction in the last few years (at least in the enterprise environment), as there has been large movements towards virtualization and using basic computers as clients, and the basic uses computers are still being used for. I am well aware that specialized software is holding some people back, but that is not the majority. SteamOS, if/when it has become fully developed and developed for, would be useful for replacing Windows on strictly gaming machines that require very little extra programs. It kind of relies on how far Valve is willing to take the venture.

[MatheusSanzo]

So... He is wrong because other guy speculation about the same subject say so?

 

Interesting logic.

[rashdanml]

Do they? I can kinda see why they'd have OSX (see how well the game runs on imac's and macbook pro's via bootcamp), but I don't see why they'd have Linux.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/33438/dice-says-it-will-support-linux-could-see-battlefield-4-on-steamos/index.html

 

Linux and OSX both use OpenGL. Porting for one means porting for the other. 

[Whiskers]

Not to quibble, but the problem is inertia. Basically there is so many people using windows and so much barrier for competition (software available on a given platform), it makes it extremely difficult for large dramatic shifts like that. The strongest direct competitor to Windows will still be Linux and I am surprised it hasn't gained more traction in the last few years (at least in the enterprise environment), as there has been large movements towards virtualization and using basic computers as clients, and the basic uses computers are still being used for. I am well aware that specialized software is holding some people back, but that is not the majority. SteamOS, if/when it has become fully developed and developed for, would be useful for replacing Windows on strictly gaming machines that require very little extra programs. It kind of relies on how far Valve is willing to take the venture.

 

Oh, I'm doubtful that Linux will take over from Windows on the business / enterprise side of things, at least not for a very long time. As you mentioned, barrier to competition - probably 99% of businesses out there use Windows because it supports the software that they require, and it's the most established and supported OS for that market.

 

However, on the gaming side things are a little different. Strictly speaking, Windows on the surface looks like it has no competition - it has a games library which dwarves any other platform which exists, including consoles. However, in the here and now its relevance and satisfaction as a gaming OS is dwindling significantly, as it has been for quite a few years now. The most important thing for the majority of gamers on a PC nowadays is Steam, without question. If they successfully move their ecosystem of games and services to their own OS, Windows doesn't stand a chance in its current form.

 

My belief is that unless Windows starts trying to win over the interest of us PC gamers, they're eventually going to lose ownership of the market to something like Steam OS, if not that specifically. The easiest way for them to do that would be to create a competing service to Steam with which they also levy the services and games they make available on Xbox, expanding the experiences available on both into being a singular and cohesive one.

 

For this, I am eternally thankful that Satya Nadella has been made the CEO of Microsoft and not Steven Elop. If Elop was made CEO he was planning to sell off the Xbox division, and as such in my view destroy what is unequivocally the most successful mainstream consumer device they currently have. Hell, it's the only 'successful' mainstream consumer device they currently have...

[rashdanml]

-snip-

To be honest, the only Living room component in SteamOS is Big Picture. Everything else is desktop-esque. 

The benefit to installing SteamOS over every other distribution is getting gaming-specific updates first. Any major modifications made to improve gaming will most likely show up on SteamOS first, from specific packages to kernel changes. These kernel changes will eventually make it into the default kernel package, then get sent out to other distributions once it's deemed stable enough. Valve's development efforts on the Linux side would be on Debian and SteamOS itself, knowing very well that to support Debian is to support countless derivatives. And the fact that it's quick and easy, plays games well, and handles all essential desktop tasks. 

 

Steam Machines targets the Living room. Big Picture targets the Living room. SteamOS, while made for Steam Machines, doesn't necessarily mean it's a Living room OS. Sure, Valve isn't focusing on desktop aspects - they don't have to. Debian covers that already. 

 

Their goal with SteamOS is multi-fold; they're not just targeting the Living room, they're also pushing for much more gaming support on Linux. And with that will come more support for desktop applications too, improving both the Living room and Desktop aspects of the OS simultaneously. 

 

SteamOS isn't one or the other, it's both equally. Valve's focus doesn't dictate which side it's on. 

[TheProfosist]

Well I never said it would replace desktop gaming unless all you wanted to do with you desktop is game so