Debate: Are Macs good for programming?

[Anoraked]

Hi all,

 

Been looking at getting a new laptop for programming and have come down to 2 candidates: 13inch Macbook Air (https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air) or the Razer Blade Stealth 13 Graphics (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Razer-Blade-Stealth-Ultrabook-Quad-Core/dp/B07KSPY9W7/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=razer+blade+stealth+2019&qid=1568543094&sr=8-3).

 

I have never programmed on a Mac before and am wondering is it a good machine for programming. I've read online that it's mostly a 50/50 split and was needing help deciding.

 

Thanks!

[5x5]

Programming on Mac is fine. The issue with them, similar to Razer, is the awful hardware and many design flaws from the breaking keyboards to the torn ribbon cables to the burned CPUs to the dying batteries

[Anoraked]

Just now, 5x5 said:

Programming on Mac is fine. The issue with them, similar to Razer, is the awful hardware and many design flaws from the breaking keyboards to the torn ribbon cables to the burned CPUs to the dying batteries

I like the thinness of the Stealth, but I know it's kinda overpriced. Any other laptop recommendations or should I just build a PC and get a desktop setup for $1,500?

[Faisal A]

@5x5And the fact that your CPU bottlenecks so you don't get the performance of the CPU. Just buy a cheaper laptop with a worse cpu and you will get the same performance

[Faisal A]

@Anoraked I would definately recomend you build a desktop. You will get better performance due to better cooling and more power availability 

[Anoraked]

Just now, Faisal A said:

@Anoraked I would definately recomend you build a desktop. You will get better performance due to better cooling and more power availability 

I currently have a laptop with a Celeron that can barely run Word and watch YouTube so I guess I'll keep that for basic tasks and build my desktop

[Faisal A]

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor	$499.99 @ Best Buy
Motherboard	MSI MPG X570 GAMING PRO CARBON WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard	$249.89 @ OutletPC
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-4266 Memory	$299.00 @ Amazon
Storage	ADATA Ultimate SU800 128 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage	Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$39.99 @ Newegg
Video Card	MSI Radeon RX 5700 8 GB MECH OC Video Card	$374.99 @ Newegg
Case	DIYPC Crystal-P3 ATX Mid Tower Case	$65.96 @ Newegg
Power Supply	Corsair CX (2017) 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply	$53.88 @ OutletPC
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$1638.70
	Mail-in rebates	-$55.00
	Total	$1583.70
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-15 06:37 EDT-0400

If you don't want to game, take the rx 5700 out and swap it for something cheaper like an rx580 or gtx 1650

[5x5]

7 minutes ago, Anoraked said:

I like the thinness of the Stealth, but I know it's kinda overpriced. Any other laptop recommendations or should I just build a PC and get a desktop setup for $1,500?

Literally any laptop is better quality. A Dell XPS 13, Asus ZenBook 13/14, Lenovo IdeaPad 730(s), Acer Swift 5. Literally anything

[5x5]

4 minutes ago, Faisal A said:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor	$499.99 @ Best Buy
Motherboard	MSI MPG X570 GAMING PRO CARBON WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard	$249.89 @ OutletPC
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-4266 Memory	$299.00 @ Amazon
Storage	ADATA Ultimate SU800 128 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage	Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$39.99 @ Newegg
Video Card	MSI Radeon RX 5700 8 GB MECH OC Video Card	$374.99 @ Newegg
Case	DIYPC Crystal-P3 ATX Mid Tower Case	$65.96 @ Newegg
Power Supply	Corsair CX (2017) 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply	$53.88 @ OutletPC
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$1638.70
	Mail-in rebates	-$55.00
	Total	$1583.70
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-15 06:37 EDT-0400

If you don't want to game, take the rx 5700 out and swap it for something cheaper like an rx580 or gtx 1650

Drop down to a 3700X imo and add a larger SSD and better power supply. 450W is cutting it close here

[Faisal A]

If you want something cheaper

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor	$329.00 @ Amazon
Motherboard	ASRock X570 Taichi ATX AM4 Motherboard	$299.99 @ Newegg
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-4266 Memory	$299.00 @ Amazon
Storage	ADATA Ultimate SU800 128 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage	Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$39.99 @ Newegg
Video Card	EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3 GB SSC GAMING Video Card	$229.99 @ B&H
Case	DIYPC Crystal-P3 ATX Mid Tower Case	$65.96 @ Newegg
Power Supply	Corsair CXM 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply	$79.89 @ OutletPC
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$1363.82
	Mail-in rebates	-$20.00
	Total	$1343.82
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-15 06:45 EDT-0400

Again, dont want to game, swap the gpu for something cheaper like an rx550 or gt 1030

[Origami Cactus]

Why are everyone recommending gaming builds?

He asked for a programming computer right? I don't see gaming anywhere in the original text?

Unless he is doing game development, a decent 4core laptop would work just as well as your recommended desktops.

 

I would recommend a Thinkpad t490 if you are just doing normal coding.

[Sauron]

4 minutes ago, Faisal A said:

If you don't want to game, take the rx 5700 out and swap it for something cheaper like an rx580 or gtx 1650

...if they're not going to need a high end gpu they might as well get a used 750 or something, what's the point of a 250$ gpu? Also that power supply is cutting it VERY close for a build like that, plus the CX series didn't have a great reputation iirc. Maybe @LukeSavenije has a bit more insight on that.

 

@Anoraked what kind of programming do you need/want to do? 'cause for some things a high end cpu is just a waste of money. Also a desktop isn't always a good substitute for a laptop.

 

As for the original question about Macs, I think they're overpriced and not that well designed but for programming they're about as good as anything else - plus a lot of people prefer programming on a unix or unix-like system, so more than the hardware you should be looking at the software and whether you prefer it (Linux is also an option by the way).

[DevBlox]

You can do work on it proper. It's not an ideal platform for development specifically though.

[Anoraked]

17 minutes ago, Sauron said:

...if they're not going to need a high end gpu they might as well get a used 750 or something, what's the point of a 250$ gpu? Also that power supply is cutting it VERY close for a build like that, plus the CX series didn't have a great reputation iirc. Maybe @LukeSavenije has a bit more insight on that.

 

@Anoraked what kind of programming do you need/want to do? 'cause for some things a high end cpu is just a waste of money. Also a desktop isn't always a good substitute for a laptop.

 

As for the original question about Macs, I think they're overpriced and not that well designed but for programming they're about as good as anything else - plus a lot of people prefer programming on a unix or unix-like system, so more than the hardware you should be looking at the software and whether you prefer it (Linux is also an option by the way).

I’ll be doing game development so I’ll probably pick up a used 1070/80 or something. I will occasionally game but that’s really kept my to my PS4 so I’d prefer to get a better programming machine then to go a crazy gaming rig that is bad for programming. 

 

I’m looking to keep the PC to around $1500. I’ll probably go with the 3900x and an AIO cooler as I want to keep the temps low.

 

One final question: ultra wide or dual monitor for programming? If it’s dual, what way: both horizontal or one horizontal and one vertical.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

[Faisal A]

@Anoraked I would say dual monitor. I personally don't like ultrawides as it complicates window movements for me

[williamcll]

You really don't need to use a mac unless you are working with Apple's Xcode.

[LukeSavenije]

28 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Maybe @LukeSavenije has a bit more insight on that.

the cxm here uses double forward, which isn't bad until you get into the 1070-2070 territory, as it's likely to whine at that point (nothing dangerous, but quite annoying)

 

but for the same price or less you can have something leagues better like the bitfenix formula

14 minutes ago, Anoraked said:

I’m looking to keep the PC to around $1500. I’ll probably go with the 3900x and an AIO cooler as I want to keep the temps low

we have something for that

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor	$499.99 @ Best Buy
CPU Cooler	Thermalright Macho Direct 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler	$42.99 @ Amazon
Motherboard	MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard	$115.00
Memory	G.Skill Aegis 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$125.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Sabrent Rocket 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	$109.99 @ Amazon
Storage	Seagate Constellation ES 3 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$57.99 @ Amazon
Video Card	EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8 GB XC ULTRA GAMING Video Card	$389.99 @ Newegg
Case	Antec P7 Window ATX Mid Tower Case	$39.99 @ Newegg
Power Supply	BitFenix Formula Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply	$79.00 @ Amazon
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$1500.93
	Mail-in rebates	-$40.00
	Total	$1460.93
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-15 07:19 EDT-0400

 

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, Anoraked said:

One final question: ultra wide or dual monitor for programming? If it’s dual, what way: both horizontal or one horizontal and one vertical.

I don't like ultrawides, when you're programming you generally want as much vertical space as possible and ultrawides usually have a lower resolution than similarly priced 16:9 monitors. As for having multiple monitors, in my opinion the more the better - especially if you're doing game development. On that note, the programming itself doesn't really tax your hardware (it's just a bunch of text editing), it's compiling and running the game you're making that will hit your computer hard.

[colonel_mortis]

I appreciate that you've made your choice at this point, but I would like to chime in to contrast with what a lot of other people have said in this topic - I would argue that macs are a very good option for programming. There is a reason why companies like Google and Amazon issue their software devs with macs. Obviously it depends what you're developing through - if you're developing Windows games, you don't really get a choice, and if you're developing iOS apps then you have to use MacOS.

 

A major benefit of MacOS over Windows is that you get a POSIX terminal. You can certainly argue that the linux subsystem on Windows makes that less of a factor now, but frankly in my experience it is nothing like as nice to use as the terminals available on MacOS or Linux (in terms of things like ease of file system access, performance, using the clipboard, etc). In terms of software support, a lot more programming-oriented software is not supported on Windows than on MacOS or Linux.

 

This isn't to say that Windows is bad, and you can certainly get a relatively cheap Windows laptop that will be fine for most needs, but if a mac is an option then it is definitely worth consideration.

 

At home I use Linux, and at work I use MacOS.

[wasab]

No. Short and sweet, no. 

[Beskamir]

It's supposedly nicer to program on unix than on windows but the difference is basically negligible in my opinion for every day programming.

[probE466]

21 hours ago, Beskamir said:

It's supposedly nicer to program on unix than on windows but the difference is basically negligible in my opinion for every day programming.

Its really not...

[zushiba]

The best coding device is one that you're comfortable coding on. If that happens to be a mac then yes, if it's a Windows device then it's a Windows device.
There's nothing inherent in MacOS, Windows or Linux systems that makes one better for programming over another. It's entirely subjective based upon personal preference and what you're actually attempting to develop. 

 

Some might argue that Linux is better for programming but that's entirely dependent on what you're developing. Same goes for MacOS, if you never drop into the CLI, being on OSX does nothing for you that you couldn't do on Windows.