In need of a psu - help :D

[CriSis_]

1 minute ago, Alexander Underwood said:

I was looking at that last night xD, only realised that myself yesterday haha

Wait the cx 450 does have 6pin? - https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/components-upgrades/power-supplies/corsair-cx450-atx-psu-450-w-10162441-pdt.html?istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=4d7eb93e-055f-499d-8ee5-1cdcc50d67d1&istItemId=xqmptapir&istBid=tztx&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~1022 (PLA) PC COMPONENTS - Adaptive~1022 (PLA) PC COMPONENTS - Adaptive ad group~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=92700027233284265&tgtid=1022 (PLA) PC COMPONENTS - Adaptive&&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn_LrBRD4ARIsAFEQFKtYwcH4y2spJK149EU1mcvE4sIZxWwyRZ5zvQO7QU6UP3l9qAPt4H4aAujxEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, Alexander Underwood said:

o you think 400w is enough for a 3600, 1660ti and ram all overclocked? Should I look into the pure power 11 500w

well, i think 500w isn't a bad idea then, 400 would technically do, but it's nice to have a little headroom here

 

cx wouldn't be a bad one either though

[hello_there_123]

6 minutes ago, Alexander Underwood said:

Wait the cx 450 does have 6pin? - https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/components-upgrades/power-supplies/corsair-cx450-atx-psu-450-w-10162441-pdt.html?istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=4d7eb93e-055f-499d-8ee5-1cdcc50d67d1&istItemId=xqmptapir&istBid=tztx&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~1022 (PLA) PC COMPONENTS - Adaptive~1022 (PLA) PC COMPONENTS - Adaptive ad group~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=92700027233284265&tgtid=1022 (PLA) PC COMPONENTS - Adaptive&&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn_LrBRD4ARIsAFEQFKtYwcH4y2spJK149EU1mcvE4sIZxWwyRZ5zvQO7QU6UP3l9qAPt4H4aAujxEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

"6+2 pin" is an 8 pin. "6 pin" will be labeled separately if it has a 6 pin. 

ONly having an 8 pin makes it incompatible with a ton of GPUs, even low wattage one like RX 5700, pcpartpicker accounts for this

[CriSis_]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

well, i think 500w isn't a bad idea then, 400 would technically do, but it's nice to have a little headroom here

 

cx wouldn't be a bad one either though

Ok then  

 

This is what i can find after a quick search around - https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/components-upgrades/power-supplies/corsair-cx550-atx-psu-550-w-10162442-pdt.html?istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=4d7eb93e-055f-499d-8ee5-1cdcc50d67d1&istItemId=xqltpmwai&istBid=tztx&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~2025 (PLA) INTERCHANGE LENS CAMERAS SBRE~2025 (PLA) INTERCHANGE LENS CAMERAS SBRE ad group~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=92700046996024593&tgtid=2025 (PLA) INTERCHANGE LENS CAMERAS SBRE&&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn_LrBRD4ARIsAFEQFKsFMmY8Bp5BxATBZZxQ7IikbIEC9UEghea3S_6-h02N_bWHfdm8jFcaArwxEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

and this - https://www.ebuyer.com/865167-be-quiet-pure-power-11-500w-power-supply-bn293?mkwid=s_dc&pcrid=51482424299&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn_LrBRD4ARIsAFEQFKulYsNzdWdTKyzdt3zGIFkmD7t2fxnagxnrbdY9hwQyYCvPEo4ZVHcaAhKeEALw_wcB

[LukeSavenije]

4 minutes ago, Alexander Underwood said:

his is what i can find after a quick search around

well, they're honestly quite similar, it comes down the small things at this point i'd say

[CriSis_]

5 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

well, they're honestly quite similar, it comes down the small things at this point i'd say

I suppose the nice thing is that the pure power 11 is gold + which means i can squeeze a little more out of my psu (future upgrades etc)

[LukeSavenije]

Just now, Alexander Underwood said:

I suppose the nice thing is that the pure power 11 is gold + which means i can squeeze a little more out of my psu (future upgrades etc)

not really

 

gold is just more efficient, but the cx will actually do a bit more wattage

 

again, it comes down to the small differences here

[CriSis_]

2 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

not really

 

gold is just more efficient, but the cx will actually do a bit more wattage

 

again, it comes down to the small differences here

What would you go for xD. My system is - 3600, 1660ti, msi b450 tomahawk, 3000 mhz cl15 ddr4, a 1tb ssd and a dr4. The cpu, gpu and ram will all have a heavy oc and I will probably upgrade some components in the future  

 

Thanks for the help, 

Lex.

[mariushm]

Here's a M12ii 620w model review: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/05/18/seasonic_m12ii620_power_supply_review/4

Not sure if this is the EVO model or not, but I don't think the differences

You can see in the image below that regardless of how much current there's on 12v (the voltage that's gonna be most used in modern systems), the voltages of 3.3v and 5v don't drop substantially.

You have 12A on 12v and 1A on 3.3v and 5v  and you get 5.01v and 3.37v

You have 25A on 12v and 2A on 3.3v and 3A on 5v and you have 4.98v and 3.35v

You have 36A on 12v and 3A on 3.3v and 4A on 5v and you have 4.99v and 3.34v

... and so on ...  remember, we're talking about a system consuming 200-250 watts?

 

The argument that voltages are too low on crossload is false... they're within the ATX standard and either way, majority of components inside your computer don't even run directly on 3.3v or 5v or 12v

A SSD takes 5v and uses dc-dc converters to produce 2.5v, 3.3v , 3.6v

A motherboard takes 3.3v and uses dc-dc converter to power the memory slots

The chipset and onboard stuff is powered from 5v through linear regulators or dc-dc converters.

Nothing that needs 3.3v won't work with 3v..3.6v , nothing that needs 5v won't work with 4.75v .. 5.25v and linear regulators or dc-dc regulators convert voltages locally.

 

As for C6 state issue and all that... it may be true, but in real world, it's probably pointless. The feature is often disabled by default on motherboards, and unless you put your PC to sleep, you probably won't even notice.

 

Here's the voltage tests :

 

 

[CriSis_]

3 minutes ago, Alexander Underwood said:

What would you go for xD. My system is - 3600, 1660ti, msi b450 tomahawk, 3000 mhz cl15 ddr4, a 1tb ssd and a dr4. The cpu, gpu and ram will all have a heavy oc and I will probably upgrade some components in the future  

 

Thanks for the help, 

Lex.

tomahawk max*- 16gb of ddr4*

[The Torrent]

16 hours ago, Alexander Underwood said:

Hi all,

I have once again changed my build and am now in need of yet another psu recommendation. The psu needs to be within the budget of £50 or under and must be able to power a 1660ti + 3600 both overclocked, 16gb of ram (possibly ocd) and a b450 tomahawk max. Many tahnks in advance for any recommendations , 

 

Thanks, 

Lex.

Dude don’t cheap put on a psu I always recommend rmx or g3

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Alexander Underwood said:

What would you go for

if you care about efficiency/power cost is higher over there, go pp11

 

if you don't, just get the cheapest

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Here's a M12ii 620w model review:

from 2010...

 

3 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Not sure if this is the EVO model or not, but I don't think the differences

it's just modularity, m12ii is semi-mod, evo fully mod iirc

 

5 minutes ago, mariushm said:

he argument that voltages are too low on crossload is false... they're within the ATX standard and either way

i never said too low, they're too high. if you load up the 12v and not the 5v, 5v will get too high and go out of spec (spec is 5.25, 5.40 is normal when this happens)

 

9 minutes ago, mariushm said:

As for C6 state issue and all that... it may be true, but in real world, it's probably pointless.

it's far from pointless. heck, it's something intel REQUIRES to be in the atx spec these days, so that alone is a violation

 

and you didn't even touch on the complete lack of undervoltage protection, overcurrent protection and overtemperature protection, which the cx 2017 all does have

 

the ocp and otp i can tolerate, uvp i seriously can't

[FALC0N]

On 9/14/2019 at 2:47 AM, hello_there_123 said:

Garbage   (Referring to the M12II)

 

Group reg, skip. Still better than the s12ii/m12ii garbage tho..   (referring to the VS 650)

 

Did you actually post this with a straight face?   Do you even begin to fathom how ill-informed you have to be to write that?  And ill-informed is being generous.  The M12II opens up a can of whoopass across the board on the VS series. It's not even close, nor was it ever intended to be.  The VS series was never meant to compete against the M12II.  It targets a lower end market.

 

18 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

from 2010...

 

So what?  I have a 2018 review if it makes you feel any better, but the numbers are pretty much the same.   The S12II/M12II have only gotten better over time.  It's the same platform.  Seasonic doesn't just carry brand names along.

 

Quote

i never said too low, they're too high. if you load up the 12v and not the 5v, 5v will get too high and go out of spec (spec is 5.25, 5.40 is normal when this happens)

 

No it doesn't.  Once again, I can tell that someone has never read an M12II review before.

 

Quote

 

it's far from pointless. heck, it's something intel REQUIRES to be in the atx spec these days, so that alone is a violation

 

and you didn't even touch on the complete lack of undervoltage protection, overcurrent protection and overtemperature protection, which the cx 2017 all does have

 

the ocp and otp i can tolerate, uvp i seriously can't

 

Intel REQUIRES it?  Violation?  You realize that the intel ATX specs are non-binding right?  They aren't a government agency.  Plus it has been violated in perpetuity.  

 

 

18 hours ago, mariushm said:

Here's a M12ii 620w model review: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/05/18/seasonic_m12ii620_power_supply_review/4

Not sure if this is the EVO model or not, but I don't think the differences

 

It's not the EVO.  That came out in 2013, but the performance is very similar.  I'm not sure exactly what they did, but the voltage regulation seems to have been tuned up a bit.  There are a LOT of M12II/S12II reviews out there but only a couple done of the M12II after the release of the EVO.  Here is one in Chinese from 2013 that covers the EVO:

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.expreview.com%2F26961-3.html

 

Here is another from 2018. 

 

http://www.f14lab.com/2018/01/review-seasonic-m12ii-evo-620-beta.html?m=1

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by LogicalDrm
Merged

[Matsozetex]

50 minutes ago, FALC0N said:

It's not the EVO.  That came out in 2013, but the performance is very similar.  I'm not sure exactly what they did, but the voltage regulation seems to have been tuned up a bit.  There are a LOT of M12II/S12II reviews out there but only a couple done of the M12II after the release of the EVO.  Here is one in Chinese from 2013 that covers the EVO:

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.expreview.com%2F26961-3.html

 

Here is another from 2018. 

 

http://www.f14lab.com/2018/01/review-seasonic-m12ii-evo-620-beta.html?m=1

 

 

 

Nothing gives me a chub more than group regulation units having semi-decent regulation then getting absolutely shit on cross loads.

[FALC0N]

13 minutes ago, Matsozetex said:

Nothing gives me a chub more than group regulation units having semi-decent regulation then getting absolutely shit on cross loads.

I don't worry about minor rail crossroad unless it goes out spec on low wattage.  If a 40/0 split on the minor rail knocks it out of spec, that would worry me.  How often are really going to get a max load on the minor rails and nothing on the 12v that isn't a lab test?  The 12v crossroad is the one to worry about, and it looks great.  

 

Where the M12II really earns its keep is ripple suppression, build quality, and reliability. Which in my opinion are all best in class  Plus it can run at 50c without breaking a sweat.  

 

Everything in the budget category is a hodgepodge of compromises.   The M12II is no different.  The question is WHERE do you compromise?  If you want the whole package, you have to spend more money.

[LukeSavenije]

2 hours ago, FALC0N said:

   The S12II/M12II have only gotten better over time. 

that would be the first time I'd see that

 

2 hours ago, FALC0N said:

No it doesn't.  Once again, I can tell that someone has never read an M12II review before.

it's not something just bound to the m12ii, it's bound to any group reg that doesn't have uvp, so this also includes the s12ii, smart 80+ and many more. but with evidence you might be able to prove the whole psu world (i asked this to PSUguru, ave, stefan payne and some others and they all gave the same answer)

 

2 hours ago, FALC0N said:

You realize that the intel ATX specs are non-binding right? 

i am, but if it doesn't meet a modern standard, why the hell would you use it with a modern system?

 

1 hour ago, FALC0N said:

Here is another from 2018. 

without crossloading, so my point is still there

 

@jonnyGURU since some people don't want to listen, do you have anything to add here?

[FALC0N]

2 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

that would be the first time I'd see that

 

it's not something just bound to the m12ii, it's bound to any group reg that doesn't have uvp, so this also includes the s12ii, smart 80+ and many more. but with evidence you might be able to prove the whole psu world (i asked this to PSUguru, ave, stefan payne and some others and they all gave the same answer)

 

i am, but if it doesn't meet a modern standard, why the hell would you use it with a modern system?

 

without crossloading, so my point is still there

 

@jonnyGURU since some people don't want to listen, do you have anything to add here?

 

Because it works reliably and safely.  One of the nice things about a mature platform with a 15 year history is that we know how it performs in real world usage.  We don't have guess based on lab tests and conjecture.  Real world performance is a more reliable indicator than lab tests.  The Focus and its issues are a good example of this.  It looked great in tests, didn't it? 

 

3 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

it's not something just bound to the m12ii, it's bound to any group reg that doesn't have uvp, so this also includes the s12ii, smart 80+ and many more. but with evidence you might be able to prove the whole psu world (i asked this to PSUguru, ave, stefan payne and some others and they all gave the same answer)

 

 

The fist review did have a crossroad test.  And 12v did not behave as you describe.  I have several others if you would like to see them.  They don't behave that way either.  The 12v is very stable on that series.  

 

And why do you keep saying it doesn't have undervoltage protection.  It does.

[PSUGuru]

2 hours ago, FALC0N said:

So what?  I have a 2018 review if it makes you feel any better, but the numbers are pretty much the same.   The S12II/M12II have only gotten better over time.  It's the same platform.  Seasonic doesn't just carry brand names along.

Not how this works. PSUs don't get better with age. Specifications and requirements change. It has no place in a modern 2019 system. Lacks too many crucial protections and uses a topology that should've died back in the mid 2000s.
 

 

[LukeSavenije]

7 minutes ago, FALC0N said:

Because it works reliably and safely.  One of the nice things about a mature platform with a 15 year history is that we know how it performs in real world usage.  

so i should use my fsp from 2003 on my pc in favour of my cxm?

[FALC0N]

11 minutes ago, PSUGuru said:

Not how this works. PSUs don't get better with age. Specifications and requirements change. It has no place in a modern 2019 system. Lacks too many crucial protections and uses a topology that should've died back in the mid 2000s.
 

 

 

Actualy, it is how it works.  Platforms mature, have bugs worked out over time, and have features added.  The M12II is better than it was at launch without question.  Perhaps you meant relative to the competition or contemporary standards?

[FALC0N]

3 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

so i should use my fsp from 2003 on my pc in favour of my cxm?

 

No, because that unit sucks.  The S12II is an unusual example.  Very unusual, in fact.  It's the only group regulated unit I will use.  

[PSUGuru]

1 minute ago, FALC0N said:

 

Actualy, it is how it works.  Platforms mature, have bugs worked out over time, and have features added.  The M12II is better than it was at launch without question.  Perhaps you meant relative to the competition?

I'm afraid that isn't how it works. Seasonic never made any modifications to the platform since its release. The PSU is the same as it was nine years ago. 

Another thing to note, PSUs aren't software. They don't have bugs. They can have poor design choices, but not bugs.

[PSUGuru]

4 minutes ago, FALC0N said:

No, because that unit sucks.

I think you're confusing it with the green label CXM from 2012. Yes, that unit did suck. But the new models from 2015 are a solid budget choice, than and the 2017 revision of the CX.

If you're referring to the 2003 FSP, well, it would depend on the model in question, since he didn't state a model.

[FALC0N]

3 minutes ago, PSUGuru said:

I'm afraid that isn't how it works. Seasonic never made any modifications to the platform since its release. The PSU is the same as it was nine years ago. 
 

 

To believe that, you would also have to believe that the M12II EVO in 2013 was a random name change. 

 

They made it full modular when it was originally, only semi-modular.  It also appears to me that they retuned the voltage regulation a bit.