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Surface pro 1 worth buying ?

Go to solution Solved by GoodBytes,

I have the Surface Pro 2, and I think it is a fantastic device. Touch and pen works well everywhere. I don't know what DyGr00339 is talking about. I can't find any threads that say anything in that area.

The Surface Pro 2 is one freaking fast system. Unlike other manufactures, nothing was cheaped out. You have a truly fast SSD, one of the fastest around in mSATA format for the capacity at the consumer level, great screen with excellent response time, cool and quiet operation (for what it is and what it has inside as power), even if the fans kicks in (rare event). The system is junk free, and does indeed showcase the best Windows experience you can get. Build quality is there, and is impressive. The pen is excellent as well. This is the best pen integration that I have ever experience on a on screen digitize pen. It's almost as good as a Wacom (well Surface Pro 1/2 uses Wacom technology), tablet. I am saying almost because unlike the Wacom tablets, yo don't have a super large boarder around the pen area, which is in reality an extension to the sensor to track the pen properly on corners. So it's not great there, but as you don't write or really draw on corners, it is fine, and all Wacom digitizer on screen have this issue, because the entire pen is used to track where it is. So on corners, the pen is out. And no one wants to use a 4 inch bordered device. :) The pen is fast and responsive. If you try to do a circle, it will show as a circle.. not an decagon (octagon but with 10 sides instead of 8) or something.

The device, while 2 lbs, is well balanced, making it more comfortable to hold. You don't feel it will tip over in a direction. Anything you can do on your desktop PC, you can do on the Surface Pro 1/2. Well.. beside gaming. It is Intel integrated graphics after all. You can play most indi games fine. you can check out youtube for a bunch of video playing games on it. However if you play games, expect to use keyboard and mouse, and not the touch screen. Only games from the Windows 8 App Store, will work with touch properly. The desktop side, beside for Civ5, aren't designed for touch screens, for it won't work. You do have GestureWorks you can get, which give iPad style controls, so it might work for some games.

https://gameplay.gestureworks.com/

Worth a try/look.

The Surface Pro 1 is similarly fast. It is older, and uses Intel older generation processor, of course. So it is slower, but not by much. It is hotter, and consumes more power, hence the lower battery life. I would not recommend it, here is why:

-> The device stand has only 1 angle, and I know that if I was limited to it with my Surface Pro 2, I would not be happy. You need the second angle. It helps for more comfortable usage, and reduce reflections.

-> The device short battery life does not allow a single school day of usage. You will need to buy the Power Cover keyboard, which isn't out yet, which is a keyboard (physical keys) with a battery inside. Microsoft estimate the price at 200$... for 200$, might as well just get the Surface Pro 2.

I use my Surface Pro 2 for note taking at university and programming (work, personal project and school, when I am on the go), and I feel like I am using my desktop. Fast and smooth.

I use OneNote 2013 part of Office 2013, for class note taking. I find it is the best note taking software available.

If I had to to buy another system today, I would buy another Surface Pro 2, without a doubt.

Is it a perfect system? No. It does have minor issues. But, I can assure you, that you mention to me any other products, and I can give you a list of issues that will most likely wont' be fixed by the manufacture as they usually don't, unless it affects sales, and engineering problems that can't be fixed. While Microsoft, in the other hand, is actively working improving the device.. even the Surface Pro 1 got an update recently to improve things. This is good news.

I would also suggest to get the extended warranty from Microsoft. as it covers also accidental damages (up to 2 times, there is a 50$ fee though, but sure beats 492$ for repair, as that is the price that Microsoft charges for any part that needs to be replaced out of warranty). The way I see it. It's the standard shipping cost. When I had to send my Wii out of warranty to Nintendo, I had to pay at the FedEx 25$ to have ti shipped. so 25$ x2 to get it back.. 50$. Not bad. The extended warranty is 150$ only. It's cheaper than BestBuy and other big retail store offering, which don't cover accidental damage. You can buy the accidental damage protection later on. I THINK you have 90 days, but not sure.

If you are a student and have an e-mail from school, be sure to CALL Microsoft to get validated as a student and a 10% off the Surface Pro 2.

In note taking at university, I have about 8-9h of usage with my Pro 2, with wireless ON, web surfing, checking e-mail with Outlook every now and then, the display at minimum, or 30% varies depending on the class I am in. I also record a class. I have a teacher that i have trouble understanding, so I record the class and listen afterward slowly and complete my notes. So pretty damn good.

If you have any questions, just ask.

After reading all this, I'm pretty convinced on asking for this as a graduation present before heading off to college next fall, thanks @GoodBytes for all the info, definitely helped on making my mind up on what I wanted to take to college with me tech wise 

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Hey no problem! Honestly the only thing that can make this product mode kick-ass, is an Nvidia or AMD GPU inside.

What I don't get, is that Nvidia introduced the Tegra K1, which the kick-ass ultra low power Kepler (GeForce 600 series architecture) GPU. Why not remove the CPU part, and sale the GPU part of it as an ultra low power GeForce 600 series. It's better than Intel integrated graphic best offering (if Nvidia data and hype is correct), full DirectX and OpenGL support (so even if it's on par with Intel solution, at least won't have error and crashes in games as Intel doesn't really support fully OpenGL and DirectX. So already it's a better experience, and well doesn't need cooling.

Oh well. Doesn't look like Nvidia sees the future of computer the same way (entertainment tablet and portable gaming system only). One can only dream. As for AMD, not one integrated in their APU would be nice.

Maybe in the future, 3-4 generation from now, when Intel can make their CPU down to 5-8W while still provide some really high performance, there would be room for a dedicated GPU.

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one last question, to charge the extended battery on the keyboard you just plug the entire surface or you need a specific charger for it ?

Rig: i7 4770k, R9 290 tri-x, 16gb Corsair Vengeance, Asus Z97 PRO, Corsair RM750, Carbide 300r, Cooler Master Hyper 212 evo, 120Gb samsung 840 evo, 2tb WD green

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Based on the tittle information we got from Microsoft (the product isn't out yet), you simply connect the power to the Surface Pro, and the device will charge both batteries for you. The only difference, while they are conflicting reports, some reports says that the PowerCover won't be backlit to maximize battery life. I guess we have to wait and see.

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oh heck every time I saw this thread another question come in to my mind...

Do you see yourself using some tipe of hubs or docks ? like the ones that linus showed (It was kind of a blu cilinder that with a usb 3 connection added a tons of ports)

Rig: i7 4770k, R9 290 tri-x, 16gb Corsair Vengeance, Asus Z97 PRO, Corsair RM750, Carbide 300r, Cooler Master Hyper 212 evo, 120Gb samsung 840 evo, 2tb WD green

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At first I thought I would... but personally I don't. I put my files in SkyDrive and that is in sync with all my systems (well just my desktop with my Surface Pro). Same for Firefox where I setup sync feature to sync my bookmarks (you can have more, like History, add-ons, and so on, but choose just to sync bookmarks) to my desktop computer. If I need something, I just network share.

As for sharing files with others... well I have a USB key. So far, I didn't have a problem using my wireless mouse and a USB flash drive at the same time. But I would image if I did, I would just use the touchpad of the keyboard or touch screen to do the file transfer and switch back to my mouse. If it's ever a continuous issue and it bugs me, I guess I could just buy a Bluetooth mouse or some kind of mini USB hub.

But I agree. 2 USB ports would have been nice. But looking at teardown pictures of the Pro 2, I can't see how they could fit a second USB flash drive. You either have the speakers (you have 2 of them), or hinge system in the way (it's a tall system), or if you could , it would be right next to some other ports (too close). So while, I am sure that something can be done, as this is the job of an engineer, create a solution out of nothing, all I am saying is that it was not something done on purpose, and that there is genuine reason why we only have 1.

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Hey @GoodBytes I would like to chime in and say thanks for all the info, been following all your posts on the surface pro :ph34r:  If you don't mind me asking, have you seen the Dell Venue 11 Pro? If so, what are your opinions on it vs. Surface Pro 2.  Looking for a tablet to write notes, school related productivity and media consumptions. 

| Currently no gaming rig | Dell XPS 13 (9343) |

| Samsung Galaxy Note5 | Gear VR | Nvidia Shield Tab | Xbox One |

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I have seen the Venue 11 Pro, but did not see any reviews of it.

I do know that the Venue 11 Pro feature replaceable battery which is nice. The reason why I did not get it for myself is:

Now before I start. I just want to highlight, I am not trashing the Venue 11 Pro. The bellow points are issues that affects me personall, which made me pick the Surface Pro 2 over the Dell one.

-> The Core i5 model doesn't have a fan, and I am afraid that the system will either get really hot under heavy load which will wear out the battery, or the system will throttle for long period of time, to allow the system to cool off. If iPads have this issue, and that's a ARM processor, this is what worries me the most. However, please note, that I use my Surface Pro for productivity purposes. I program on it. I need performance when I need it. If it was just casually a few programs that I want under Windows than I guess it would be fine, as it is Intel's ultra low voltage CPU, but if you are really pushing the system for long periods of time it might be problematic.

-> CPU and GPU are slower. Like I said, I need performance. The GPU is the Intel integrated graphic 4200 if you pick the fastest CPU - Core i5 4210Y 1.5GHz (1.9GHz with Turbo boost), not the 4400 as you have in the Surface Pro 2. When it comes to Intel, at least for me, I want what ever drop of performance I can get. For reference, already the 4400 can NOT, and I repeat, can NOT, play 1080p HD video under Power Saver Windows power plan. You needd to switch to Balance. While an Nvidia and AMD lowe end offering allows to play 1080p HD video just fine without really clocking faster, maybe just a bit, depending on how low end or how old the GPU is.

The Surface Pro 2 has a 4200U 1.6GHz (2.6GHz with Turbo Boost - most of the time, when pushed, will gets you 2.4GHz) or 4300U 1.9GHz (2.9GHz Turbo Boost - most of the time when pushed will be at 2.6GHz), depending on how lucky you are. (Normally the Surface Pro 2 has the 4200U model, but due to high demand of the 4200U by other manufactures, Microsoft, to meet demand, will order the 4300U and use that. I don't know if they have permanently switch the faster CPU model or still a mix, but I reaidng more reports that people are getting the later one, which is nice. So the 4300U is more a small gift, even though there is no performance difference in real life between the two, as it's only 300MHz difference.

-> The pen. It has a digitizer, but not from N-Trig or Wacom. If it's anything like the Venue 8 Pro... which Dell didn't send the pen to any reviewers, some decided to buy it themselves. After looking at reviewsm, like teh one bellow, now you know why Dell iddn't want to send the pen. It is awful and unacceptable experience:

So, as the goal of this device for me, is the pen, for note taking, mainly... this is the key element, else I would just get a laptop or ultarbook (unless I wanted some even more portable device than an Ultrabook)

-> Costs about the same as the Surface Pro 2 of the same capacity (128GB model). So might as well get the Surface Pro 2 (unless the above doesnt concern you. And prefer the ASUS transofrmer style keyboard/dock where you get to pick what ever angle you want (which is a nice plus, to be honest), or need the extra USB ports. So they both have ups and downs. It depends on you and what affects you the most or not.

Also the Venue 11 does have an Atom and Core i3 option for an affordable device. This is excellent if you just wasnt Firefox or Chrome, and your favorite PDF reader, with Office, I beleive. As I want to program, and definitly plan to keep my Surface Pro 2 for at least 3 years. It needs to deliver performance.

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-snip-

 

Thanks for all the info :) .  Definitely makes me feel that the surface pro 2 is the best device for my usage.

 

EDIT: As a side note, Lisa's reviews are awesome!

| Currently no gaming rig | Dell XPS 13 (9343) |

| Samsung Galaxy Note5 | Gear VR | Nvidia Shield Tab | Xbox One |

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Glad I could help. I have just edited my post above for clarification puropses, as I found it was bashing the Venue Pro 11, while it was not my goal, just staing issues that personnally affect me. I have also added where the Venue 11 Pro fits, for whom it targets, in my opinion.

Agreed. What I like about Lisa's reviews is that I find them unbiast, and she knwos technology, she embrases it, and use common sense. She is not going to start bashing the convirtable tablet like the Surface Pro 2, on how the battery life sucks compared to the iPad or something, or how heavy it is. But rather compare things with other similar devices, and understand technological limitation, the target audience of the device. In addition, she read people comment and will make upfdates on the review. For example the pen for the Venue Pro 8, above, was asked a lot, so she got the pen and cover, and made a seperate video on it, continuing the initial review.

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I would like to highlight a downside with the Surface Pro 2. It's too power saving aggressive. If you use an Intel GPU of late, you might know this issue, but basically the Intel integrated graphic applies a dynamic contrast style of effect. It will change the color of the display to dims or increase based on how bright or dark the content of the screen is. You can normally fix this by going on the Intel integrated graphic control panel and disable that power saving feature. Sadly, on the Surface Pro 2, as everything is cut to be super lean and light. You don't have the Intel integrated graphics control panel and that feature is turned on, even when you are plugged in, and set Windows Power plan to High Performance. So what does it do? Well it could potentially be annoying to some, but the biggest problem is those who plan to do color critical work, as it's software color change, it created banding visible on gradients.

Please note that it doesn't change the screen brightness. You'll see it if the brightens is at 0% or 100%. It is in no relation to the ambient light sensor. That will happen even if you disabled the ambient light sensor to control the backlight automatically. It is software color adjusted.

You might say "Well that's ok, I'll just install the Intel drivers!", well not so fast. If you do it, no mater what power saving feature you set, you'll lose all power saving features of the Intel integrated graphics, and you can expect only ~6h of batter life, and the device will be warmer then normal.

I don't know if Microsoft will fix this (at least have it disabled when plugged in or when using balance power plan, or have a Windows option), but so far, it is what it is.

They did say that they have done the best they could in the re-working of the Surface Pro 2 to be power efficient all by increase performance through the device making the fastest device for the same specs. They did stuff like using low powered DDR3 (LPDDR3), using low powered mSATA and mSATA SSD, optimize motherboard circuit). I guess this one of the changes.

So when this is showing? when you display a dark image for a few seconds, and switch to bright one for a few seconds.

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