Surface pro 1 worth buying ?

[wikilor]

Hello everyone, I would like to have an opinion on the surface pro 1, to see if it is worth to be bought. 
I'm 16 and I would use it at school, and for programming in visual studio (c#), now my questions are:

1) Can it run visual studio smoothly ?

2) Is it worth buying the 128Gb model at the price of 699 € (942$ I'm in italy :angry: ) ?

3) Are there any better alternatives that still are highly portable ?

 

p.s. In my current setup I have a laptop with a brocken screen converted to a desktop pc with a pentium p6100@ 2.0Ghz and an mobility radeon 5470 OC.

 

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english.

[wng_kingsley7]

Could be... but I'd recommend that you get the newer revision of windows surface. Way better bro but if you can get it for quite cheaper like $100 or $200 bux off damn good deal.

If you check this video out of the officially launch of surface 2, surface pro 2 it can play 4K video playback/streaming but I think the network is good in that place.

128Gb model is pretty good it will suffice but spend more on the storage can sorta help but maybe 256Gb is the better sweet spot.

Yes there are alternative tablet/notebooks like ultrabooks things like hybrid laptops.

You sound like you maybe me in definite need of a new laptop or tablet for work/educational study.

[DyGr00339]

Okay, i own a surface 2 pro pesonally and this is my advice

 

The marketplace is so poor that no youtube, gmail, or other necessity's are there to use

 

The "Desktop" side of windows 8 on the surface does not allow for on screen toching without launching the program

 

Storage gets used QUICK

 

the 1st version has a poor battery

 

I do not reccomend, I suggest a small laptop

[wikilor]

I would certainly prefer to buy the second generation one but even the 128Gb model in italy cost around 1400$ and sadly I don't have that budget

The only cheeper version available options here are the ones with intel atom but I don't think that they are powerfull enough to handle visual studio ... and application heavier than office

[wikilor]

Okay, i own a surface 2 pro pesonally and this is my advice

 

The marketplace is so poor that no youtube, gmail, or other necessity's are there to use

 

The "Desktop" side of windows 8 on the surface does not allow for on screen toching without launching the program

 

Storage gets used QUICK

 

the 1st version has a poor battery

 

I do not reccomend, I suggest a small laptop

thanks you for the opinion, I know that probably a laptop would get more but I realy need I high portability, are there any good ultrabooks at the same price spot ?

[JaanMan]

I think I shall recommend you the Sony Vaio Fit 13, its a 13-inch hybrid notebook (13 inch is the sweet spot between portability and screen size). I think it features a i5 as minimum and 128 ssd and 8gigs of RAMs. It can be a tablet and a notebook. And last time I checked its like around 1k USD (Might be promotions at my country)

Sony recent launches are quite impressive and this model is quite light too. 

Good luck on your hunt

 

Edit: 

Here is the link to the product.

http://www.sony.it/electronics/vaio/vaio-fit-11a-13a-14a-15a

You can configure and find the one that suites you from here.

http://www.sony.it/buy/vaio-fit-11a-13a-14a-15a

[wikilor]

I think I shall recommend you the Sony Vaio Fit 13, its a 13-inch hybrid notebook (13 inch is the sweet spot between portability and screen size). I think it features a i5 as minimum and 128 ssd and 8gigs of RAMs. It can be a tablet and a notebook. And last time I checked its like around 1k USD. 

Sony recent launches are quite impressive and this model is quite light too. 

Good luck on your hunt

 

Edit: 

Here is the link to the product.

http://www.sony.it/electronics/vaio/vaio-fit-11a-13a-14a-15a

You can configure and find the one that suites you from here.

http://www.sony.it/buy/vaio-fit-11a-13a-14a-15a

 

I would like very much a device like that but here the i5 version costs around 2k USD and my maximum budget it's about 800 USD

 

Is it possible to ship products like tablets or laptop from amazon or ncix from the USA to europe or the tax and the expedition are too high ? 

[JaanMan]

When you the shipping is cross country, usually it's high. (eg. to ship things from US to my country, it will nearly cost as much as the item itself (around 100 USD or more)) So it is better to find a local retailer or some deals back in Italy to evade from high shipping fees and taxes (may or may not be charged).

[JaanMan]

But again, it is still worth a shot to see if the computer together with shipping fees from NCIX to Italy will cost less than what is offered in Italy. You can search around and find one that you feel it will match your liking and budget.

[wikilor]

ok thanks you right know I'm looking at the acer / dell convertibles but it seems that the surface it's the only one that doesn't cost too much

[GoodBytes]

I have the Surface Pro 2, and I think it is a fantastic device. Touch and pen works well everywhere. I don't know what DyGr00339 is talking about. I can't find any threads that say anything in that area.

The Surface Pro 2 is one freaking fast system. Unlike other manufactures, nothing was cheaped out. You have a truly fast SSD, one of the fastest around in mSATA format for the capacity at the consumer level, great screen with excellent response time, cool and quiet operation (for what it is and what it has inside as power), even if the fans kicks in (rare event). The system is junk free, and does indeed showcase the best Windows experience you can get. Build quality is there, and is impressive. The pen is excellent as well. This is the best pen integration that I have ever experience on a on screen digitize pen. It's almost as good as a Wacom (well Surface Pro 1/2 uses Wacom technology), tablet. I am saying almost because unlike the Wacom tablets, yo don't have a super large boarder around the pen area, which is in reality an extension to the sensor to track the pen properly on corners. So it's not great there, but as you don't write or really draw on corners, it is fine, and all Wacom digitizer on screen have this issue, because the entire pen is used to track where it is. So on corners, the pen is out. And no one wants to use a 4 inch bordered device. The pen is fast and responsive. If you try to do a circle, it will show as a circle.. not an decagon (octagon but with 10 sides instead of 8) or something.

The device, while 2 lbs, is well balanced, making it more comfortable to hold. You don't feel it will tip over in a direction. Anything you can do on your desktop PC, you can do on the Surface Pro 1/2. Well.. beside gaming. It is Intel integrated graphics after all. You can play most indi games fine. you can check out youtube for a bunch of video playing games on it. However if you play games, expect to use keyboard and mouse, and not the touch screen. Only games from the Windows 8 App Store, will work with touch properly. The desktop side, beside for Civ5, aren't designed for touch screens, for it won't work. You do have GestureWorks you can get, which give iPad style controls, so it might work for some games.

https://gameplay.gestureworks.com/

Worth a try/look.

The Surface Pro 1 is similarly fast. It is older, and uses Intel older generation processor, of course. So it is slower, but not by much. It is hotter, and consumes more power, hence the lower battery life. I would not recommend it, here is why:

-> The device stand has only 1 angle, and I know that if I was limited to it with my Surface Pro 2, I would not be happy. You need the second angle. It helps for more comfortable usage, and reduce reflections.

-> The device short battery life does not allow a single school day of usage. You will need to buy the Power Cover keyboard, which isn't out yet, which is a keyboard (physical keys) with a battery inside. Microsoft estimate the price at 200$... for 200$, might as well just get the Surface Pro 2.

I use my Surface Pro 2 for note taking at university and programming (work, personal project and school, when I am on the go), and I feel like I am using my desktop. Fast and smooth.

I use OneNote 2013 part of Office 2013, for class note taking. I find it is the best note taking software available.

If I had to to buy another system today, I would buy another Surface Pro 2, without a doubt.

Is it a perfect system? No. It does have minor issues. But, I can assure you, that you mention to me any other products, and I can give you a list of issues that will most likely wont' be fixed by the manufacture as they usually don't, unless it affects sales, and engineering problems that can't be fixed. While Microsoft, in the other hand, is actively working improving the device.. even the Surface Pro 1 got an update recently to improve things. This is good news.

I would also suggest to get the extended warranty from Microsoft. as it covers also accidental damages (up to 2 times, there is a 50$ fee though, but sure beats 492$ for repair, as that is the price that Microsoft charges for any part that needs to be replaced out of warranty). The way I see it. It's the standard shipping cost. When I had to send my Wii out of warranty to Nintendo, I had to pay at the FedEx 25$ to have ti shipped. so 25$ x2 to get it back.. 50$. Not bad. The extended warranty is 150$ only. It's cheaper than BestBuy and other big retail store offering, which don't cover accidental damage. You can buy the accidental damage protection later on. I THINK you have 90 days, but not sure.

If you are a student and have an e-mail from school, be sure to CALL Microsoft to get validated as a student and a 10% off the Surface Pro 2.

In note taking at university, I have about 8-9h of usage with my Pro 2, with wireless ON, web surfing, checking e-mail with Outlook every now and then, the display at minimum, or 30% varies depending on the class I am in. I also record a class. I have a teacher that i have trouble understanding, so I record the class and listen afterward slowly and complete my notes. So pretty damn good.

If you have any questions, just ask.

[PhilBoisvert]

Hello everyone, I would like to have an opinion on the surface pro 1, to see if it is worth to be bought. 

I'm 16 and I would use it at school, and for programming in visual studio (c#), now my questions are:

1) Can it run visual studio smoothly ?

2) Is it worth buying the 128Gb model at the price of 699 € (942$ I'm in italy :angry: ) ?

3) Are there any better alternatives that still are highly portable ?

 

p.s. In my current setup I have a laptop with a brocken screen converted to a desktop pc with a pentium p6100@ 2.0Ghz and an mobility radeon 5470 OC.

 

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english.

 

My surface pro 1 is very usefull to me mainly because of the wacom pen. I take all my notes in university with it. But be sure to have power plug everywhere because the battery only makes about 4hrs. You would want to envest in a portable battery bank for it.

I run big files in autocad with, you should be ok for wathever you need to do with it. 128gb is ok if you do not load it with music video and other things. 

[GoodBytes]

Avoid the Sony Vio Flip. I have not seen one at the retail store, including Sony Store that isn't broken. It has a flaw in the hinge where if you apply too much pressure, the screen and hinge bends.. it could potentially break the screen as well. Also, due to the angle, it may be unconformable to you to use it in portrait mode.

It also uses N-trig, so you don't have fine tracking, meaning if you want to write really small, you can't. In addition, it's not fast (a circle won't be a nice circle), I tried it. Also the pen requires a quadruple A (AAAA) battery. Good luck finding those. The Wacom solution does not require battery, as the screens powers the pen. However. N-Trig does work better on corners, and you can use it in portrait mode without recalibration. The Wacom pen requires a calibration to have goo dtracking as it we all hold the pen differently. So the n-Trig solution might be more interesting... depends on you.

In addition, the after sales warranty is non-existent. So if you have a repair under warranty well good luck. On average, at least in Canada, Sony takes about 1 month before you have the device back.

Oh and because it's Sony.. it has HDMI, not display port. So you are stuck at 1920x1200 @ 60Hz max resolution. While DisplayPort can power any higher screen resolution, even 4K at 60Hz. Cables, adapters are cheaper as you don't pay the high royalty fees. It's just a smarter choice.

[wikilor]

Thanks you very much you have made my mind clear now , sadly I can't use the discount for student, I've looked around and In italy doesn't seem to have any discount and I don't have a school email beacuse I'm at the high school (I'm 16), I've found a retailer with a reasonable price the surface pro 2 64GB  is at around 879 € and instead the surface one 128GB at 700€ 

Which should I get? is the 64GB memory not enough ?
I can survive with no media but is it enough to install basic programs ?
 

[GoodBytes]

64GB is just enough for programs, and a bit of room for document. You definitely want to use SkyDrive to extend the storage, XBox Music for streaming music, and/or use a micro SD card. if you want some extra storage... so it's not bad, you have options.

In my case, I have the following installed on my Surface Pro 2, and with Windows, it consumes, 63.1GB. Or at least, this is what Windows properties reports. I have games installed as well, and this includes my profiles account.

-> I have all Windows 8.1 Modern UI applications, but I removes Sports, Travel, OneNote (the metro version, as I have OneNote 2013), Skype Windows 8 app and a few other ones. But I have the essentials, like Maps, Mail, News, People, Weather, Alarm , Help+Tips, Heath and fitness and Music (for XBox Music). I did install News Bento Windows 8 App.

-> Skype desktop

-> Trillain 5 with Windows 8 theme (I made it )

-> Broken Age (game)

-> Ticket To Ride (game)

-> Steam

-> IconWorkshop

-> Paint.Net

-> Shotty

-> Windows Live Essential (move maker and photo gallery only installed)

-> Firefox 26 alpha

-> Mouse without Borders

-> Office 2013 Univeristy

-> VLC

-> Zune

-> FileZilla FTP

-> Flash CS3

-> Webmatrix 3

-> MySQL workbench

-> Microsoft Mathematics

-> Maple Student

-> Visual Studio 2013 with C++ modules and Windows 8 app development tools

-> 3GB Virtual hard Drive (I use it for File History feature of Windows 8, it is set for dynamically expending, however)

and I think that us all.

Sooo, actually come to thing about it, it's not bad at all. I think you should be fine as is without any extra storage card or something. Plus you have SkyDrive if you ever needed extra space. You have 200GB for 2 years free with the Pro 2, added to what you current have with a SkyDrive account (7GB).

Ah, I forgot to mention, what isn't included in the above is the recovery partition.

That is 6GB about, if Windows Disk Management is correct.

So, if I am not mistaken, you'll need to free 10GB of what I have, to be comfortable with 64GB SSD. There is a way to extract the recovery partition and put it on a USB key, so save additional space. Oh and my page file is 8GB big, as I have 8GB of RAM (this is Windows default, I didn't touch this), So expect about 4GB free already as you'll have 4GB of RAM.

[Rhino2112000]

If it's 64GBs and if it's windows 8 not windows RT. Also you might want to get a real keyboards not the Smart Cover like keyboard.

[GoodBytes]

If it's 64GBs and if it's windows 8 not windows RT.

Yes. Make sure it's the Pro (color black, not silver)

 

Also you might want to get a real keyboards not the Smart Cover like keyboard.

Surface Pro 1/2 has a physical keyboard version of the cover called the Type Cover. The Type Cover 2 is backlit, the version 1 which is cheaper now, isn't.

I have the Type Cover 2. Works well, as the size of the keys are almost the same standard size keys as you get on a normal keyboard. So it's fairly easy to get used to. I am able to code all day with it.

[Rhino2112000]

Silver sucks!

[wikilor]

ok but the thing is that the 64GB model has only 37GB (declared from microsoft probably a bit less) and i don't count on installing games is it still enough for programs and if I run out of space can I install them on the sd expansion card ?

 

sorry for all the questions 

[GoodBytes]

This is good, ask as many questions as you want.

The Surface Pro 2 has a microSD card slot:

Of course, you can use the USB 3.0 port, but then you'll get this big thing coming out of it.

I have not used my microSD card slot, so I don't know how it performs, but I don't see why it should have any problem. MicroSD cards are slow in nature, so I don't know what to expect. Great for files, not loading programs directly on it, or large project files, of course.

If you have Live Essentials (photo gallery, and Movie Maker), Visual Studio 2013 (you only install the C++ foundation as extra (C# already included), not Microsoft Blend, LightSwitch, Office dev tools, etc), and Office 2013 (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Outlook), and maybe Paint.NET, you should be fine. I doubt that they consume more than 30GB together.

It's difficult to measure, exactly, as files are put at many locations, so I can't just go in Program Files and check.

[wikilor]

So I think I've made my choice I hope I can get it relatively soon as my main computer is falling apart my usb wifi adpter just flat out died and I'm connected through usb with my galaxy s one. If I happen to get it I will update this post or make a new one with my impressions so thanks you all very much !!

[GoodBytes]

You are welcome.

But before doing any purchase decision, I suggest to check out reveiws and try and find the downsides of the system. This is important thing.You'll be with it for several years, you want to make sure that the downsides dont' affect you.

Already I can tell you that, if you use the Surface Pro with it's default 200% DPI, or 155% DPI level it's fine, especially if you stick with Office 2013, or Visual Studio 2013, IE, Firefox to some extent, where they scale fine. You might encounter programs that don't scale well, as they are not high DPI friendly. It is relative new thing for Windows. So it will take time before you start seeing DPI friendly software. Already Adobe announced that the next version of PhotoShop will support high DPI settings. If you want to use 100% DPI (windows default), then that would depends on you. If you have good eyes, no problem. Plus, you can always zoom in Office program, Visual Studio code, IE, Firefox, PDF's, and so on if you need to see bigger.

If you don't know, take your time. Go to a retail store that has the Surface Pro 2, and change the DPI settings to 100%, sign out and back in (there is no password on the Microsoft demo account), and your done, check it out.. just imagine you'll have the pen to help you, if the store doesn't put the pen.

Another downside, is that the power port, DisplayPort... port, and USB port will get scratched. The reason for this, is that the magnesium enclosure is painted not dyed. I have not seen dyed magnesium in any product, it's always painting, so I guess it can't be done, or the results aren't nice. The reason why the USB and DisplayPort connector will get scratch around, is that the cut for the port is done exact to the size of the plug, this was done to hide the ugly metal box around the connector, so it looks sleek. But as you insert a plug you have friction and it will get scratch. It's nothing hugely visible, but it is something that is expected to happen, with being careful. If it bugs you, then perhaps you should look at a different device.

It will look this (not mine, this is from the internet):

Another thing to remember, is that like I said, the Wacom digitizer, the entire pen is being tracked. As we all have different size hands, and we all hold the pen differently it needs to be calibrated. This is the strength of N-Trig, you don't need to do this, so if this is problematic, you can opt with a device using N-Trig instead. You can go with the Sony one suggested, if you don't mind the after sale service (although, like I said, it could be different for your region, I can only speak for Canada), and just be careful to not put high pressure on teh device when in use. Definitely don't put it in your bag without flipping it back to laptop mode.

For the easiest calibration, of the pen, I suggest to do the 273 point calibration. as we all hold the pen different based on where it is on the screen, the default 16 point calibration doesn't allow this, as it only checks the corners. I know 273 point sounds like crazy, but it's not very time consuming.. maybe 5-10min of your time. And of course, you do this once and you are done.

To do this, open the command prompt as true administrator, and execute the command:

tabcal devicekind=pen lincal novalidate XGridPts=10,60,110,160,260,360,460,560,660,810,960,1110,1260,1360,1460,1560,1660,1760,1810,1860,1910 YGridPts=10,60,110,160,250,400,540,680,830,920,970,1020,1070

Also, don't expect to take pictures with the Surface Pro 2, the camera is not great... in fact it's your average ultrabook camera. Meaning low resolution of 1.2MP with a tiny camera sensor. It's really designed for Skype calls at best, not taking pictures. The Dell Venue 11 in the other hand has better camera, and it's like the Surface Pro 2, similar size and type of device. The pen is really not great, it uses synaptic pen technology. They are completely new to it, Dell has the first product with it. There isn't reviews of it, as Dell haven't given the pen. But some reviewers, for the Dell Venue Pro 8 bought the pen themselves, and it ended up clicking everywhere without touching the glass, and tracking is not great. Dell says that they are working on it, but I don't know if there is a fix for it. But all I can see is that Dell is not given the pen to reviewers for a reason.

Sometimes, on rare occasion, the device can get confused between sleep and power. It is difficult to reproduce the problem, this an issue that the Pro 1 also had, where lets say you press the power button to put it to sleep, then you close the keyboard cover (which also does a sleep command, but only after a few seconds), then you open the keyboard close it, press the button while the keyboard is closed, then you comes to use it, you hit the button, and either it doesn't startup and you need to force a reboot (Power button + Volume Up button for several seconds), or it will act as if it was shutdown, and start normally. The example I have given is just an example that I came up with, I can't reproduce it on my side. So far, since I have the Pro 2 (3 weeks) it only happened once. If you hibernate or shutdown the device most of the time, then you'll never encounter it... or if you sleep the device and well don't confuse it, then it's should be fine (fine with me, at least).

That is all the downsides that comes to mind for the device.

So like I said, it has downsides, it's not perfect, all devices has it's share of faults. It is for you to see if it is going to affect you.

I am mentioning all this, because I know the device is not cheap, and you'll be using and interacting with it daily. So it is important to know what you are getting.

The best way to get the Surface Pro 2, is to book mark that Microsoft online store page, and visit it multiple times a day, even on Sunday, stock can appear at any time, and disappear quickly. That is how I got my Surface Pro 2. At first I didn't do this.. only checking it once a week, same for retail stores.. always sold out. Since October, when the device was released.

So another downside

They are discussions onto why it is hard to get the Surface Pro 2. We do know that sales of Surface products (all of them together) has doubled since last year from Microsoft investment report, so it is selling fairly well, but everyone speculates that Microsoft is avoiding what happened with the first gen, and that is over producing it, so they are playing it safe.

[wikilor]

thanks you, I've already read a lot of review and I'm not going to buy it in the short term, I will take some times to look deeper into it beacuse you're right it's not cheap and if i happen to buy one I will probably stick with it for a very very long time 

 

 

 

P.s. for the scaling I'm fine with 100% scale (pixel to pixel) I have a quite good sight and I prefer beeing able to see more things at a time
for the pen it won't bother me calibrating it as I am the kind of guy that like to tune every single aspect of their system to make them work the best so no problem with it

Edited February 2, 2014 by wikilor

[GoodBytes]

Awesome. Just keep in mind, that it looks like Microsoft will release a new Surface Pro in October. As the Surface Pro 1 and 2 were both release sometime in October (well February actually for the Pro 1, but was announced in October with the Surface 1, and it's Microsoft first PC, so it perhaps explains the delay).

So if you plan to buy the Pro 2 in September... well, maybe it's best to wait a few more weeks.

Correction, I said the camera are 0.9MP, my mistake they are 1.2MP. fixed in post.

[wikilor]

I know I know that's the worst and best thing about tech as soon as you get it, it became old.
But I will certainly keep an eye open especially for computex at june (I hope they'll cover that)