SSD TIER LIST

[White7561]

4 minutes ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

No, it has around the same performance. All drives that had Phison E12 now changed to a Phison E12S, which is improvement since the Phison E12S has smaller size (so the manufacturer of the SSD/Phison can fit more NAND packages), a nichel case (which improve the temperature) and maybe a lower nanometres (28 -> 12 by TSMC), so a lower power consumption. In addition to this, it probably changed the NANDs: now it has Micron 96L TLC B27A, maybe before had Toshiba/Kioxia BiCS3 TLC (64L).

So overall it's better than the older one with Phison E12 huh? i also noticed that the TBW rating has increased . Also the cons of this new change seems to be the lower DRAM size. i think mine is now 512MB instead of 1GB for 1TB drive. i don't know though if that changes the performance or not... does it?? 

[tc004255]

I'm considering to buy a new 240/256GB SATA3 SSD as a temporary solution while I'm waiting for my broken P300 to be replaced (I'd like to use both drives later, and B450M steel legends only have 1 M.2 PCIe slot).

 

Since it'll be used for Win 10 and essential apps such as office only, will higher tier SSD worth it? Is there any recommended model within tier, or just grab the cheapest one?

For comparison, here B Tiers such as WD Blue 3D/Crucial MX500 are around 50% more expensive than C Tiers such as Silicon Power A56, Patriot Burst/P210, WD Green, and ADATA SU650 

 

[Wooden Law - Black]

31 minutes ago, White7561 said:

So overall it's better than the older one with Phison E12 huh? i also noticed that the TBW rating has increased . Also the cons of this new change seems to be the lower DRAM size. i think mine is now 512MB instead of 1GB for 1TB drive. i don't know though if that changes the performance or not... does it?? 

Yeah I forgot to write that the Phison E12S supports lower DRAM size. Probably no, it doesn’t change the performance.

[Wooden Law - Black]

44 minutes ago, tc004255 said:

Since it'll be used for Win 10 and essential apps such as office only, will higher tier SSD worth it?

Since you’ll buy a SATA III, yes, it is worth (with NVMe no because they use HMB if they lack of a DRAM cache). The MX500 probably is the best SSD as price-performance. 

[UhreForFan]

Hi I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this but I found a brand that wasn't on the list and wonder if they're legit. It is a budget brand AKA the cheapest option I can get from trusted retailers in Sweden. 

 

The name is Kioxia Exceria SATA SSD 960GB 2.5". I hardly found any videos on youtube reviewing of mentioning it. (Kind of annoying that there isn't a channel that is like Hardware unboxed with monitors or Gamer nexus with chasses but for SSD:s) 

 

I also wonder how it compares to Patriot P210 1TB 2.5" SSD. Which I did see in the list but at the bottom.

 

Thanks too Wooden Law below for a great answer. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by UhreForFan
Thanking the good reply

[Wooden Law - Black]

Kioxia is the ex-Toshiba and it is a big manufacturer of NAND Flash. The Exceria Plus SATA is essentially a new Toshiba TR200 with better flash (BiCS4 96L TLC vs old BiCS3 64L TLC) and maybe the same controller rebranded (so a Phison S11 - single-core, dual-channel controller). 
 

On the Patriot P210 there are many different opinions of which is its hardware, some sites say Phison S11 with 96L flash (without saying the manufacturer) and other say SM2259XT omitting the flash; for these reasons, I would avoid it and I would prefer the Kioxia Exceria. Both are Tier C SSDs. 
 

[Derfel]

Is there anything decent at 250€ for 2TB?

I was almost getting the 3030 then i read here that is now utter garbage.

 

 

[Wooden Law - Black]

9 hours ago, Derfel said:

Is there anything decent at 250€ for 2TB?

I was almost getting the 3030 then i read here that is now utter garbage.

 

 

I don’t know in which country you live, but check also the Mushkin Pilot-E, ADATA SX8200 Pro (which changes its hardware many times), TeamGroup MP33, Silicon Power P34A80 (if it has a 2 TB SKU), SK Hynix Gold P31 (which is the best among those I’ve mentioned), etc. 
 

The PNY CS3030 isn’t garbage as many people think, but it changes its hardware (from Phison E12 to E12S with different DRAM and flash) like all Phison E12 drives and people confuse the endurance with the TBW (which is the warranty in writes).

[Derfel]

11 hours ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

I don’t know in which country you live, but check also the Mushkin Pilot-E, ADATA SX8200 Pro (which changes its hardware many times), TeamGroup MP33, Silicon Power P34A80 (if it has a 2 TB SKU), SK Hynix Gold P31 (which is the best among those I’ve mentioned), etc. 
 

The PNY CS3030 isn’t garbage as many people think, but it changes its hardware (from Phison E12 to E12S with different DRAM and flash) like all Phison E12 drives and people confuse the endurance with the TBW (which is the warranty in writes).

I can find these:
Mushkin Pilot-E 249€

ADATA SX8200 Pro 249€

Silicon Power P34A80 244€

 

the teamgroup doesn't have a 2TB option (or at least it's not sold anywhere here) and the hynix it seems to not be sold in europe at all.

 

Which one of those is good? Are there any with dram in them at that price range or is that only for higher price stuff?

 

I really do not like when companies change components in products and downgrade stuff. From what other people said a couple of pages back, all the Phison E12 drives are to be avoided for the time being. Why would you say that is not the case?

 

Can you also explain to me the difference between TBW and endurance? If TBW is reduced substantially, that really does not give me confidence in the endurance of a drive. Where am i mistaken?

 

tyvm!

[Wooden Law - Black]

1 hour ago, Derfel said:

I can find these:
Mushkin Pilot-E 249€

ADATA SX8200 Pro 249€

Silicon Power P34A80 244€

 

the teamgroup doesn't have a 2TB option (or at least it's not sold anywhere here) and the hynix it seems to not be sold in europe at all.

I would buy the Pilot-E since the many revisions of SX8200 Pro (there like 8/9 revisions, I think) and P34A80 (from E12 to E12S to SM2262ENG and to - in some countries - Realtek). 

 

1 hour ago, Derfel said:

I really do not like when companies change components in products and downgrade stuff. From what other people said a couple of pages back, all the Phison E12 drives are to be avoided for the time being. Why would you say that is not the case?

The fact is that PNY (like all companies that manufactured SSD with Phison E12 controller - Patriot, Corsair, Sabrent, TeamGroup, Silicon Power, Gigabyte, HIKVision, Inland, Pioneer, etc.) didn’t do a downgrade went from the Phison E12 to Phison E12S, PNY do an upgrade, because the Phison E12S has smaller size (so on the SSD there are more NAND packages and it enables to get single-sided SSD with higher capacity), and nichel IHS (this decreases the temperature). Also, Phison E12S drives changed its flash from Micron 64L/Kioxia 64L to Micron 96L/Kioxia 64L, and this changes the reliable and the performance. People think that all E12S drives are to avoid because with the change of the controller usually drives downgraded the TBW, but the TBW as I already said is the warranty as writes and this parameter is arbitrary. It isn’t the endurance, and this latter depends on the architecture of flash, ECC of the controller, the design of the SLC cache, if there is a DRAM cache or not, etc.

[Derfel]

5 minutes ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

I would buy the Pilot-E since the many revisions of SX8200 Pro (there like 8/9 revisions, I think) and P34A80 (from E12 to E12S to SM2262ENG and to - in some countries - Realtek). 

 

The fact is that PNY (like all companies that manufactured SSD with Phison E12 controller - Patriot, Corsair, Sabrent, TeamGroup, Silicon Power, Gigabyte, HIKVision, Inland, Pioneer, etc.) didn’t do a downgrade went from the Phison E12 to Phison E12S, PNY do an upgrade, because the Phison E12S has smaller size (so on the SSD there are more NAND packages and it enables to get single-sided SSD with higher capacity), and nichel IHS (this decreases the temperature). Also, Phison E12S drives changed its flash from Micron 64L/Kioxia 64L to Micron 96L/Kioxia 64L, and this changes the reliable and the performance. People think that all E12S drives are to avoid because with the change of the controller usually drives downgraded the TBW, but the TBW as I already said is the warranty as writes and this parameter is arbitrary. It isn’t the endurance, and this latter depends on the architecture of flash, ECC of the controller, the design of the SLC cache, if there is a DRAM cache or not, etc.

Could you explain to me why the TBW shouldn't be taken as "proof" of endurance?

 

I mean, if you are certain your drive will last for a certain amount of writes, i'm reasonably certain you don't want to replace all the ones you've sold cos they don't last that long.

 

What am i missing?

[Wooden Law - Black]

49 minutes ago, Derfel said:

What am i missing?

The point that endurance is specified as PEC (P/E cycles) of the flash, not as terabytes written. 

[Derfel]

3 minutes ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

The point that endurance is specified as PEC (P/E cycles) of the flash, not as terabytes written. 

Ok, but i'm still puzzled by why you wouldn't mind a significantly lower TBW. Doesn't a higher count of P/E Cycles directly translates to higher TBW?

[Wooden Law - Black]

15 minutes ago, Derfel said:

Ok, but i'm still puzzled by why you wouldn't mind a significantly lower TBW. Doesn't a higher count of P/E Cycles directly translates to higher TBW?

No, I already said what TBW means: the TBW as I already said is the warranty as writes and this parameter is arbitrary. This isn’t the same of endurance. 

[Derfel]

What do you think of the Silicon Power US70 for 290?

[Wooden Law - Black]

8 hours ago, Derfel said:

What do you think of the Silicon Power US70 for 290?

Good PCIe 4.0 but currently “old” and replaced by new Phison E18, InnoGrit IG5236, WD G2 (only WD SN850) and Samsung Elpis (only Samsung 980 PRO) drives. Is like the Sabrent Rocket 4.0: good drive (the same hardware of US70 - Phison E16 + BiCS4 TLC) but Sabrent made new PCIe 4.0 drives that replaced it (Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus). 

[Derfel]

21 minutes ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

Good PCIe 4.0 but currently “old” and replaced by new Phison E18, InnoGrit IG5236, WD G2 (only WD SN850) and Samsung Elpis (only Samsung 980 PRO) drives. Is like the Sabrent Rocket 4.0: good drive (the same hardware of US70 - Phison E16 + BiCS4 TLC) but Sabrent made new PCIe 4.0 drives that replaced it (Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus). 

would you say it's worth the 50€ difference from the P34A80?

I'm not sure how useful it'll be, but i'm thinking maybe for directstorage and some kind of futureproofing...

[Wooden Law - Black]

43 minutes ago, Derfel said:

would you say it's worth the 50€ difference from the P34A80?

If you think that you need that write and read speed (4000+ MB/s) yes, but also you need a motherboard with the PCIe 4.0, like Z490/Z590 with an Intel 11th CPU or X570 and B550. 

 

45 minutes ago, Derfel said:

I'm not sure how useful it'll be, but i'm thinking maybe for directstorage and some kind of futureproofing...

Currently DirectStorage doesn’t require high-end SSD like PCIe 4.0.

[Derfel]

2 hours ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

If you think that you need that write and read speed (4000+ MB/s) yes, but also you need a motherboard with the PCIe 4.0, like Z490/Z590 with an Intel 11th CPU or X570 and B550. 

 

Currently DirectStorage doesn’t require high-end SSD like PCIe 4.0.

I'm getting a new config with a 5900x (most likely) so pci-e 4 shouldn't be a problem.

Do i need that speed? Probably not, but on the other hand that's true for most people...

 

I mean, i switched to a sata low-mid range crucial SSD just a few years back, from a velociraptor which, even if fast by HDD standards, made it feel plenty fast.

I guess that since i'm making a new system, and that SSD doesn't seem to be THAT much more expensive (and - please don't shoot me - boasts an impressive TBW warranty, if i'm not mistaken...) i thought....

[Wooden Law - Black]

2 hours ago, Derfel said:

I'm getting a new config with a 5900x (most likely) so pci-e 4 shouldn't be a problem.

Do i need that speed? Probably not, but on the other hand that's true for most people...

 

I mean, i switched to a sata low-mid range crucial SSD just a few years back, from a velociraptor which, even if fast by HDD standards, made it feel plenty fast.

I guess that since i'm making a new system, and that SSD doesn't seem to be THAT much more expensive (and - please don't shoot me - boasts an impressive TBW warranty, if i'm not mistaken...) i thought....

Check also the Sabrent Rocket 4.0, usually it has a lower price than the new PCIe 4.0 drives. 

[Derfel]

It seems it's a good 100€ more than that silicon power, and i have to order it from germany (can't find it locally, at least not on an online shop that i can see).

 

 

 

 

[Wooden Law - Black]

Ok so avoid it and buy the Silicon Power US70.

[fritzmg]

On 8/13/2021 at 8:59 PM, Wooden Law - Black said:

I edited my reply linking the SSD in the case you want to check. 
 

In this price range I suggest the WD SN550 (very good DRAM-less with 96L TLC NAND Flash) or the Kingston A2000.

Careful, WD also made a bait-and-switch with the SN550. The new revision has around 50% worse performance once the SLC-Cache is full.

 

Imho the SN550 should be downgraded to Tier E.

[Wooden Law - Black]

7 hours ago, fritzmg said:

Careful, WD also made a bait-and-switch with the SN550. The new revision has around 50% worse performance once the SLC-Cache is full.

 

Imho the SN550 should be downgraded to Tier E.

I know, WD did this like Samsung with the 970 EVO Plus (changed the controller from Phoenix to Elpis with different flash, or 128L - V6 - or maybe has a higher density), in fact the Samsung 970 EVO Plus downgraded as performance (from 1500 MB/s to 850 MB/s). I think WD changed the flash with a denser one (from 512Gb to 1Tb maybe).

[Derfel]

Got the silicon power in the end.

Hopefully i won't regret it!

 

Thank you for the advices.