How to Coax? ?

[Cavalry Canuck]

Another day (well, night), another stupid networking question.

 

 

 

In short:

 

Is Coax still relevant? If so, how does one wire a house with Coax?

 

 

 

In long/A bit of background:

 

I haven’t used cable since 2006/16 years old. Ever since then all the home telecoms I’ve ever used has been over Ethernet/Wifi, which is why I am comfortable setting up a wired CAT 6 network, and when in doubt generally know what questions I need to ask. 

 

On the contrary, I have no idea what to do with Coax. I don’t even know what questions to ask, really. Do I need to worry about two-way data transmission? If so, do I need two cables on each run? What is the cable equivalent of a switch, modem, router, etc? Can I just use splitters on runs that go to the same room? All that nonsense.

 

The house I am redoing only had two wall jacks that I could find, and both cables were terminated prematurely, despite there being a satellite dish and a cable connection from the main. So I don’t even have a basic example to work off of. I recall my childhood home had a television in every bedroom and living/playroom, so I know it’s possible.

 

Truthfully I wouldn’t even be bothered if it were for myself; but, I will be renting this house out and want to ensure it has all the amenities expected of a 21st century residence.

 

 

 

Thanks again for your time,

Matthew

[FlappyBoobs]

Coax is used for signal cables, you can have Audio, Video or any Digital signal you want over it, but in the home it tends to be exclusively used for Cable and Terrestrial TV signal. 

 

You only need to run coax around your house if you want multiple cable boxes in each room, or if you want standard OTA TV available in each room. But if all you use cable for is sharing the internet then you can just run CAT cable around the house instead. OTA TV can  be got using an indoor aerial if you really want it, but that's that. 

 

Any cable installer will sort out the coax runs for multiple boxes so you don't need to install it for that, and the vast majority of renters will not care about having OTA TV in every room. 

 

Personally I wouldn't bother wiring up a rental with anything, because, again, the vast majority of renters don't care about cable connections to the internet and will be perfectly happy with WiFi. 

[Cavalry Canuck]

24 minutes ago, FlappyBoobs said:

Coax is used for signal cables, you can have Audio, Video or any Digital signal you want over it, but in the home it tends to be exclusively used for Cable and Terrestrial TV signal. 

 

You only need to run coax around your house if you want multiple cable boxes in each room, or if you want standard OTA TV available in each room. But if all you use cable for is sharing the internet then you can just run CAT cable around the house instead. OTA TV can  be got using an indoor aerial if you really want it, but that's that. 

 

Any cable installer will sort out the coax runs for multiple boxes so you don't need to install it for that, and the vast majority of renters will not care about having OTA TV in every room. 

 

Personally I wouldn't bother wiring up a rental with anything, because, again, the vast majority of renters don't care about cable connections to the internet and will be perfectly happy with WiFi. 

 

So what exactly is the difference between cable and terrestrial television?

 

And what is with the need for a Cable Box in every room? How would that work? When I had “cable tv” I just plugged the tv into the coax port in the wall and had access to every channel. Is it still just a matter of splitting runs from the signal source (be it satellite, cable, etc), but the box interprets the signal and establishes the channel; or, does each box need a dedicated, un-split run from the signal source?

 

As to having the cable company guy come do it, that’s difficult to arrange with my work schedule. That and I don’t need to be paying for extra labour. My house is old enough that every time I open a wall up, there is a new surprise waiting for me. I’d hate for one of those (and the associated expense) to befall the poor cable guy. I’d likely run them all adjacent to my CAT 6 runs anyway, which is part of what prompted this question. If I am to do the Coax, I’d rather do it at the same time as the ethernet, rather than tearing into everything twice.

 

Regardless of your thoughts on if I should, it’s something I’d like to do. I appreciate that you gave me perspective on where I need to start.

[Not Eligible For Stars]

@Cavalry Canuck

 

I too install coax when given the chance to run new cables (I'm a sparky), even tho todays use of it (at least in Norway) is limited. People usually go for IP-TV when given the choice.

 

IP-TV usually requires fibre service (or a high speed copper connection). It also requires 1 dedicated ethernet line to each TV. IP-TV has the advantage of higher quality and you get a good deal when you order together with your regular internett, as the ISP provides you both services. 

The cable-tv/satellite-tv providers basically marks up the price because you have no other choice in your area, or are restricted by building rules (not allowed to put up satellite dish etc.)

 

 

What I do is run pre-pulled 20mm corrugated tubes with 1xRG6+2xCat6 inside. Use 22mm ship auger drill-bit to make holes in the studs. That way you only pull 1 tube to each spot you imagine someone would put a TV.

(notice: if you cant get your hands on pre-pulled tubes, go up to 25mm. Pulling 3 cables in a 20mm after you add bends will result in a lot of swearing.)

Then we drill a 73mm hole with a hole-saw and insert a orange/red box and connect the tube to the box.

Its all terminated in a wallplate with all 3 connectors neatly stacked in a triangel.

 

I'm not sugesting that you go out of your way to obtain these specific norwegian items, you probably have similar gear in your country. I know its common to pull cables in walls without the use of tubes everywhere else in the world, guess we are the strange ones for using it ^^

Btw, there are other styles and colors to the wallplate - i just displayed a basic one.

 

https://issuu.com/teccon/docs/7316_teccon_prisliste/4

http://proff.elko.no/trippeluttak-2xutp-1x-antenne/rs16-mod-i-2xutp-c6-1xf-f-hun-article2121-844.html

http://proff.elko.no/bokser/category594.html

 

 

(left side at the bottom, #12 515 66)

 

 

 

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

 

So what exactly is the difference between cable and terrestrial television?

 

And what is with the need for a Cable Box in every room? How would that work? When I had “cable tv” I just plugged the tv into the coax port in the wall and had access to every channel. Is it still just a matter of splitting runs from the signal source (be it satellite, cable, etc), but the box interprets the signal and establishes the channel; or, does each box need a dedicated, un-split run from the signal source?

 

As to having the cable company guy come do it, that’s difficult to arrange with my work schedule. That and I don’t need to be paying for extra labour. My house is old enough that every time I open a wall up, there is a new surprise waiting for me. I’d hate for one of those (and the associated expense) to befall the poor cable guy. I’d likely run them all adjacent to my CAT 6 runs anyway, which is part of what prompted this question. If I am to do the Coax, I’d rather do it at the same time as the ethernet, rather than tearing into everything twice.

 

Regardless of your thoughts on if I should, it’s something I’d like to do. I appreciate that you gave me perspective on where I need to start.

To answer the first question the cable co provides one and the other one is provided by an antenna in your home or just outside your home. Cable boxes are needed because most providers use digital cable so they can encrypt the channels. So that’s why a cable box is needed. 

 

Splitting is is a bit more complicated due to how cable internet works. Cable modems require the best signal possible so you can’t split the signal to them very much. Generally a two way splitter is the first splitter used on the line. One side feeds the modem and the other feeds a TV or another splitter. Each splitter creates loss, so you don’t want to use too many. 

 

Another use use for coax is MOCA. This kinda treats the coax as Ethernet. But it’s not as good as Ethernet and setup is a bit more involved. Bonded MOCA 2.0 adapters can do up to about 800 Mbps. But like wireless they only communicate one direction at a time. They are used when Ethernet is not an option. BUT cable providers use MOCA for whole home DVR setups. MOCA can coexist with cable signal as well as over the air tv. As it uses the upper bands on the coax. 

[Cavalry Canuck]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

To answer the first question the cable co provides one and the other one is provided by an antenna in your home or just outside your home. Cable boxes are needed because most providers use digital cable so they can encrypt the channels. So that’s why a cable box is needed. 

 

Splitting is is a bit more complicated due to how cable internet works. Cable modems require the best signal possible so you can’t split the signal to them very much. Generally a two way splitter is the first splitter used on the line. One side feeds the modem and the other feeds a TV or another splitter. Each splitter creates loss, so you don’t want to use too many. 

 

Another use use for coax is MOCA. This kinda treats the coax as Ethernet. But it’s not as good as Ethernet and setup is a bit more involved. Bonded MOCA 2.0 adapters can do up to about 800 Mbps. But like wireless they only communicate one direction at a time. They are used when Ethernet is not an option. BUT cable providers use MOCA for whole home DVR setups. MOCA can coexist with cable signal as well as over the air tv. As it uses the upper bands on the coax. 

Reading this and other info online, I’m thinking I’m going to do it the same way I’m doing my ethernet. I’ll just run coax cables from Jacks in the locations where a TV would make sense to a dedicated patch panel on my rack with the appropriate keystones. From there I will just run a cable from the source box (be it satellite or cable) into the comms closet and do whatever splitting/amplifying is needed in there. I figure a 6-8 way splitter/amp combo will be sufficient. From there, just patch from the splitter to the jacks on the patch panel corresponding to where TVs will end up being mounted. This would also serve to make integrating a cable modem into the network easier, even if cable internet would be a downgrade.

 

All potential TV mounting locations will be co-located with ethernet. So I intend on using combo wall plates similar to what our Norwegian friend posted above. 

 

What are your thoughts for that plan?

[Donut417]

12 minutes ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

Reading this and other info online, I’m thinking I’m going to do it the same way I’m doing my ethernet. I’ll just run coax cables from Jacks in the locations where a TV would make sense to a dedicated patch panel on my rack with the appropriate keystones. From there I will just run a cable from the source box (be it satellite or cable) into the comms closet and do whatever splitting/amplifying is needed in there. I figure a 6-8 way splitter/amp combo will be sufficient. From there, just patch from the splitter to the jacks on the patch panel corresponding to where TVs will end up being mounted. This would also serve to make integrating a cable modem into the network easier, even if cable internet would be a downgrade.

 

All potential TV mounting locations will be co-located with ethernet. So I intend on using combo wall plates similar to what our Norwegian friend posted above. 

 

What are your thoughts for that plan?

With AMPs you have to be careful. Not wise to amplify a signal to the cable modem as these are temperamental when the signal is not with in spec. Other than that.... yeah run everything to a centralized location. Use RG6 coax, don’t cheap out and use RG59. If you make your own coax make sure you use compression f connectors and not the crimp on type. Also be sure to use terminators on any ports you don’t use. If left open this can put noise in to the cable network. Which in turn can cause issues for you and others In your neighborhood. Cat 5e or Cat6 Ethernet is what you want to use, either will do 1 Gbps at 100 meters. 

[Majinhoju]

I have a mix of coax and ethernet in my home setup and I haven't noticed any performance issues on any devices connected to the coax moca adapters.  2 of my TVs are connected to a desktop switch connected to a moca adapter to coax run down to my fiber modem setup in the garage.  I've done Steam streaming between 2 PCs in this setup with no issue.

The only thing I should do to improve my setup is replace my switches with managed switches that support IGMP snooping as I could run into issues with too many TV streams/recordings occuring at once.  I had to pull one of my TV boxes off my ethernet network as it would brick my switch when trying to watch a 4k channel, but it's connect to an unmanaged switch.  

 

 

[Cavalry Canuck]

9 hours ago, Donut417 said:

With AMPs you have to be careful. Not wise to amplify a signal to the cable modem as these are temperamental when the signal is not with in spec. Other than that.... yeah run everything to a centralized location. Use RG6 coax, don’t cheap out and use RG59. If you make your own coax make sure you use compression f connectors and not the crimp on type. Also be sure to use terminators on any ports you don’t use. If left open this can put noise in to the cable network. Which in turn can cause issues for you and others In your neighborhood. Cat 5e or Cat6 Ethernet is what you want to use, either will do 1 Gbps at 100 meters. 

Well if the internet ever gets switched to cable, I’m sure installing a two-way splitter prior to the modem and the main splitter/amp wont be a big deal. As to the cabling itself, I’m thinking about going with the quad-shielded to prevent crosstalk.