Huawei ban

[Faisal A]

Just wondering what everybody else thinks of the ban.

[r2724r16]

I want American companies to be banned in China. That's how the US will learn their lesson.

[ThePD]

21 minutes ago, r2724r16 said:

I want American companies to be banned in China. That's how the US will learn their lesson.

There is literally a forum topic in Tech News right now about a chinese company taking Battlefield 1942 and posting it on Steam as if it was their own product. China has stolen too much IP from the US and other countries for the US to not act on it. Other countries are planning on banning Huawei or already have as well.

[r2724r16]

1 minute ago, ThePD said:

There is literally a forum topic in Tech News right now about a chinese company taking Battlefield 1942 and posting it on Steam as if it was their own product. China has stolen too much IP from the US and other countries for the US to not act on it.

Okay. What does that have to do with the Huawei ban? And do you think the US doesn't spy on other people (along with its own citizens)? The Huawei ban is completely unreasonable IMO.

[ThePD]

1 minute ago, r2724r16 said:

Okay. What does that have to do with the Huawei ban? And do you think the US doesn't spy on other people (along with its own citizens)? The Huawei ban is completely unreasonable IMO.

Huawei has been accused many times of stealing IP and designs of products. The US does spy on it's citizens and I do not support them doing that. No government is without corruption. Pretty sure I never defended the US spying on its citizens.

[ThePD]

7 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

I wold say ban anything that is not nonprofit. Anything that is for profit let it be taken over by the government.

Any really what is the deal this Gov spying? What are you doing that so bad you can't have your Gov knowing ?

Why does the government need to know what you are doing? It has nothing to do with the person doing something bad. It is called privacy.

[KuJoe]

What happened to the other thread about this?

[ThePD]

4 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

Simple. Safety. Government oversite can stop alot of crime and helps fight it too.

 

TBH the level of privacy people want these days is insane and makes me rather concerned about people motives and need for such a level or privacy. It screens I have something to hide and I'm up to no good.

 

Why can't your Government know you went to X or googled X or went to X website. Google knows what you googled and so does your ISP.

You Phone services provider knows were you go when you brinf your cell phone, who you call and text. The GPS app you used knows, google might know if you used google maps. People that see you on the road know were you go, the people at the place you go to know.

Many of the apps you use can see what your doing and share it with the devs/owners.

 

Its not privacy, people though that away long ago but using modern tech. its ether paranoia or someone it up to no good. 

The NSA has spied on American citizens for over a decade and released that in those years it had successfully stopped 0 terrorist plots. Hence why NSA is looking to be absolved in the near future.

Government spying CAN be used to stop crime, but most of the time it is not. Every once in a while you hear that a terror plot was foiled, but then you compare it to the amount of spying across millions of people to stop 2-3 assialients. There is something to be said about the 80-20 rule..

[XR6]

16 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

Simple. Safety. Government oversite can stop alot of crime and helps fight it too.

 

TBH the level of privacy people want these days is insane and makes me rather concerned about people motives and need for such a level or privacy. It screens I have something to hide and I'm up to no good.

 

Why can't your Government know you went to X or googled X or went to X website. Google knows what you googled and so does your ISP.

You Phone services provider knows were you go when you brinf your cell phone, who you call and text. The GPS app you used knows, google might know if you used google maps. People that see you on the road know were you go, the people at the place you go to know.

Many of the apps you use can see what your doing and share it with the devs/owners.

 

Its not privacy, people though that away long ago but using modern tech. its ether paranoia or someone it up to no good. 

Is privacy just too much to ask nowadays? I don't have anything to hide (nor am I a criminal) but I value my privacy very much.

I don't appreciate having my government spy on me and my activities. It's downright intrusive.

I don't want the government to know my browsing history and what I'm doing on the internet. It's none of their business, they don't have any reason to be looking at what I'm doing.

I'm a law-abiding citizen with no criminal record, what do they need to spy on me for?

 

Okay, now back on topic: I think that the Huawei ban was a stupid idea.

The US have no proof that Huawei are actually spying, the only thing they have to back up their claims is that someone with Chinese government connections was previously working for Huawei (I think he was the CEO or COO but I can't remember).

I think the ban is mainly because Huawei is a Chinese company, so according to the US they are automatically spying.

The US are playing with fire here. China could retaliate because of this, and that's something you want to avoid.

Also, out of all the countries to call out Huawei for spying it was the US.. Ironic, isn't it?

[ThePD]

1 minute ago, PacketMan said:

I wouldn't say that, because I won't trust them saying they got nothing. If after years spying and not getting anything, there's finally a terrorist attack, over and over, it means that those hundreds of millions on surveillance are a waste. If they kept doing it for so many years it means they found something, but they can't just say in court "we were spying on them and found they wanted to take down the gov"

IMO I think that they really "stopped" possible threats

Except for the NSA themselves reported that they were not actually being productive in their searches. Like I said, government spying CAN be used to find people committing crimes, but usually the manpower needed to catch one person generally makes it efficient. But it is also a case by case basis.

[Drak3]

20 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

Government oversite can stop alot of crime

That is false.

 

3 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

If you are indeed a law abiding citizen and don't have anything to hide were is the problem

Just like the Jews in Germany just before November 10th, 1938.

 

Goverments become corrupt fast. The process accelerates as you start infringing upon the rights of citizens.

[ThePD]

6 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

It really does not take much man power for catching bad people online. More people are convicted on online crimes that are sought from spying then you think.

How do you know it does not require much man power? Have you yourself caught people doing illegal acts online? I have seen investigations of people that were ongoing for years before they had concrete evidence. And usually it is because someone gave a tip to police about the suspect beforehand. 

You think it is acceptable for the government to go "Okay, today I think we're gonna spy on Sally. Lets get in contact with her ISP and pull all her browsing data since she opened her account." On what grounds did you have the authority to spy on Sally? You need a warrant for that kind of information.

What about the Florida school shooter who was reported for going online and commenting "I am going to shoot up a school". The police were notified, the FBI was notified and nothing happened. There was hard concrete evidence that he was saying these things and the government did not prevent the attack from happening. It shows the government is horribly inefficient and stopping crime, even when people report those troubled individuals.

If the government can't stop crime when there is hard evidence right in front of them, even without going through the trouble of spying... What difference will spying make.

[XR6]

11 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

Why can't your government have it too?

I don't want them to have it because they don't need it. They have no reason or warrant to spy on me so they shouldn't be doing it.

11 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

Why not, alot of other entity's have that info.

Because I don't want yet another entity having my info. In fact, those other entities don't need that info in the first place. 

11 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

If you are indeed a law abiding citizen and don't have anything to hide were is the problem?

The problem is that the government is constantly watching what I'm doing and they have no reason to be doing it. They're being intrusive just because they can.

Government spying does (in some cases) stop criminal activity but I'm not a criminal. They don't need to be watching what I'm doing.

[ThePD]

13 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

 If you are indeed a law abiding citizen and don't have anything to hide were is the problem?

We in the United States have a saying... "Innocent until proven guilty". Government spying insinuates that a person is guilty before it was proven. Every single person who has been spied and was innocent, was treated like a criminal when they were not.

[Drak3]

5 minutes ago, Mr. horse said:

Witch can be a really bad thing for safety

He who trades liberty for security loses both and deserves neither

-Ben Franklin

[r2724r16]

4 hours ago, ThePD said:

Huawei has been accused many times of stealing IP and designs of products. The US does spy on it's citizens and I do not support them doing that. No government is without corruption. Pretty sure I never defended the US spying on its citizens.

So you think it's fair for the US to ban Chinese companies, but not China to ban American companies?

 

And I'm sure you're smart enough to realize why no one is accusing American companies of spying. After all, the US is insanely powerful/influential.

[ThePD]

12 minutes ago, r2724r16 said:

So you think it's fair for the US to ban Chinese companies, but not China to ban American companies?

 

And I'm sure you're smart enough to realize why no one is accusing American companies of spying. After all, the US is insanely powerful/influential.

I am not arguing what is fair, not sure the point you are trying to make here. I am just saying, that China is known for stealing IP and for a long time it went unchecked. China is welcome to ban American companies, they will do what they see fit. Just like how the US saw it fit to ban Huawei. Was it fair for China to steal IP from countries for decades and when when those companies asked China to enforce copyright/patents, they refused?

If it was me, I would increase the tariffs against China. We have already slowed the Chinese economy dramatically, meanwhile the US economy continued to grow despite all the anti-tariff rhetoric that was thrown. If China continues to act the way they have towards the US in the past, then you will see continued escalation of blocks against Chinese companies. There is a very large amount of Americans that truly believe China was responsible for the downfall of manufacturing in the US.

There are many reasons Huawei was banned. Trade, IP Theft, National Security all played a roll.

[Arika]

2 hours ago, ThePD said:

am not arguing what is fair, not sure the point you are trying to make here. I am just saying, that China is known for stealing IP and for a long time it went unchecked.

except this is completely irrelevant to the ban, you understand that right?

[Donut417]

Huawei was only banned because Trump and the Chinese government are in very serious negotiations on who has the bigger dick. This is all do to the trade deal that we are trying to get China to sign. For far too long has our trade agreements with China been a shit sandwich. I think this ban is bull shit to the furthest degree. 

 

3 hours ago, ThePD said:

We have already slowed the Chinese economy dramatically, meanwhile the US economy continued to grow despite all the anti-tariff rhetoric that was thrown. If China continues to act the way they have towards the US in the past, then you will see continued escalation of blocks against Chinese companies. There is a very large amount of Americans that truly believe China was responsible for the downfall of manufacturing in the US.

First of all the US is due for a recession. The economy goes up and down on like a cycle and we are close. Secondly just because you block Chinese companies doesnt mean those jobs are coming back. First of all who's going to work them? As you said China killed manufacturing in the US. So whos going to work in the factories? Michigan has at least 80,000 skilled trade jobs they cant find people to fill. My dad is a tool and die maker, hes in his 60's, and that how old many of the current people the that field are. They have NO ONE to take their places. There are two strategies companies use when a lack of skills is present. They off shore the jobs to people who have the skills or they bring people in to the US to take those jobs. Currently we have an Anti Immigrant president and many of the citizen of this country are against immigration. So we have no way to fill those jobs. 

 

[ThePD]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

except this is completely irrelevant to the ban, you understand that right?

Yes which is way I did not say IP theft from Huawei was the sole reason for its ban.

[harryk]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

except this is completely irrelevant to the ban, you understand that right?

Except that it is. One of the main reasonings behind the trade war, for good or bad, is IP theft. Numerous Chinese companies, often with aid or direction from the PRC, have been engaged in unethical if not illegal violation of copyright, patent, and general IP protections that exist in the western economy. Huawei is among the largest offenders having been both caught and convicted a number of times over the last two decades. Honestly I'm surprised it took this long for them to be blacklisted. 

 

The fact that the Whitehouse cited spying as the reason for the ban is likely semantics to link Huawei to National Security concerns. A good way to do anything you want is to tie it into National Security. That being said I do think there is real reason to be concerned about Huawei's ability to spy on its customers. China already does this with its own citizens so they are technically capable of doing the same in the US as long as they have control over the hardware. 

 

In response to those who accuse the US, or Google, or Facebook doing the same. That doesn't make it any more proper for Huawei or China to do it. Perhaps read up on whataboutism. 

[Drak3]

31 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Currently we have an Anti illegal Immigrant president and many of the citizen of this country are against illegal immigration.

FTFY.

[Video Beagle]

Just a note...there's a difference between a company based in a country and a company co-owned by a country's government.

Huawei, for good or ill, spying or not, is partially owned by the chinese government.

Facebook, for good or ill, spying or not, is not partially owned by the US government. It is a US company because it's based in the US.

[Tilaron]

I have a P9, thankfully my contract renews next month so I can get a free new phone. Perfect timing! That being said, I've never been overly fussed with this sort of spying, I know it's bad but I haven't had the energy to respond beyond the usual British "Eh, I've got nothing to hide!" attitude. I even spoke to an old friend about this, he recently became a dad and said since then he's become wayyyyyyyy more careful about posting things online, especially about his baby, even if it's to facebook with all the security set to 10000% or family-only whatsapp groups.

 

As I'm one broke man and my government loves excuses to ignore its citizens, I have sadly accepted my power is limited, and my fate to die as a sheep is almost certain.

[wasab]

 

 

No 5G for USA. 

 

No banning Huawei, Chinese maybe will spy on you. 

 

Banning Huawei, Uncle Sam will definitely be spying on you. 

 

Pick your poison.