AMD Navi 20 GPU Allegedly Supports Ray Tracing & Enhanced GCN Architecture - May Be Faster Than RTX 2080 Ti

[BobbyPdue]

17 hours ago, Bcat00 said:

like come on, does history not show that crappy company can’t roll out a decent GPU for the past decade?

I think that's a bit unfair.  It's true AMD hasn't had a great history with GPU's, however, neither did they with CPU's and look at what they did with Ryzen.  I'll wait for actual performance data from several unbiased sources before I pass any judgement on what its performance is going to be, but to be fair I'm a little skeptical, too.  Either way I'm hoping for something good.  Perhaps AMD will surprise a lot of people and actually make a card designed specifically for gaming rather than for professional uses?   

[Master Disaster]

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Personally, I don't take anything a "leaker" says seriously because it's not official documentation, rumors, and speculation at best, and being right over rumors/speculation is blind luck at best.  Companies do not like leakers at all.  It's not just about their job being on the line, but it's kind of a legal problem as well.  Considering he keeps stating this over and over, and the fact that it makes major tech news, the company would likely be filing a report on the matter.  Which, in theory, would be investigated, so I have my doubts about him having someone at the company leaking it.  Shittech is code for Wccftech aka the usual suspect when it comes to hypetrain bs.  There's a bit of a difference between protecting someone from their job, and protecting them from law enforcement.  Protecting someone from law enforcement, especially this context, could potentially put Jim in legal trouble too, especially in this regard.  Even more, so considering he profiting off it.

Sorry but that's just plain untrue.

 

Companies love leaks as long as it benefits them, there's been cases of companies "leaking" information about their own products in the past, they will certainly leak information about competitive products if they think they can get away with it and you bet your assistance they rejoice when leaks about competitors happen.

 

Nothing builds hype more than a good leak and nothing can build contempt about a product/service/business more than a negative leak.

 

Just look at this very subforum and go through the numerous Zen 2 leak threads. The amount of hype from some people is unreal.

[GoldenLag]

1 hour ago, CarlBar said:

 

The point is if they've made major changes in the past why can't they do that again?

they can, but since the time they discovered the sclaing issues with the architecture, its been quite a lot of time to work on something to fix it, but we havent gotten anything. 

 

i will wait and see, but im not expecting a lot

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

The point is if they've made major changes in the past why can't they do that again?

Because GCN is a dead horse.  It came out of the gates just fine, but over it's lifetime each iteration has taken longer to improve and their ability to squeeze more out of it is getting much harder.  That's why the rhetoric about AMD an rumours/hype is a thing. In the beginning they weren't really lagging NVIDIA for releasing a competing card, but over the last 7 years or so they are now an entire generation or 2 behind.

[Mihle]

@valdyrgramr Btw, Lisa Su do know Adored exist if you didnt know. How much I don't know. Don't know if she actually watched it, but she did at least reply to one of his videos about Zen 2:  (well, she is  a busy woman, so might not have, but the reply is written in a way that make it seem like she has)

https://twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1089715760895852545?s=17

[onlybuilt4cubanxlinx]

17 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

... i don't get it... ,_,

It's from a stupid show. LetterKenny.

[cj09beira]

4 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

they can, but since the time they discovered the sclaing issues with the architecture, its been quite a lot of time to work on something to fix it, but we havent gotten anything. 

 

i will wait and see, but im not expecting a lot

we have actually seen the fixe come, it came with vega, its simply not on/working for some reason, would like to have amd tell us what happened 

[Mihle]

2 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

That doesn't mean she heard the whole part about someone working for AMD.  That was a different video than the one on Twitter.  Even if she did hear it, and didn't mind then that goes back to me saying that he would need permission from Lisa.  lol Which means then that there's no reason to hide that guy's identity.  Him alone still treating it that way makes it still seem like he is making shit up about having a contact there.  I don't believe the guy has a source directly from AMD or anyone under an NDA.

I know, I didn't say it was the same video.

 

But you don't understand how this all works.

 

Some companies care, and others care less. Apple is one of those that care, and AMD seem to be one of those that care less. Or that what it seems like from what we know publicly from the past.

 

For example, first time we heard about Threadripper/Epic being multiple Ryzen chips was through a leak. First time we heard about Rome having IO chip and CPU chiplets was through a leak. As some examples. If I remember right, some of them came from, or was "confirmed" buy a leaker adored have had contact with if I remember right. (Not totally sure).

But have we heard AMD go after any of them? Not as far as we know.

But at least the Rome leak was closer to when they showed it off if I remember right than this case.

[Mihle]

32 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, she might be enjoying the hype aspect.  The video didn't really say anything about leaks in the illegal sense or a mention of a leaker, and kind of just explains what the product is.  So, that's basically free advertising with a dash of speculation and fine.  lol  It wasn't ever confirmed that said leaker actually works for AMD, or that they were under an NDA.  That's what would get the company going after you.  Adored simply stating the person works at AMD is not enough proof to back his claim there, or even enough for a company to take legal action.  What could is if the stuff was legit.  It's more likely that Adored is lying about his source to keep viewers.  If he were to be honest about it he'd lose followers which would cost him money.

I don't talk about that video apart from she know about bit, my other points was standalone.

 

But even if the leaker isn't at and but a board partner, they are also under NDA. But they would not know where. But I don't remember him saying the leaker definitely works for AMD anyway. 

 

Don't know if the same leaker, but last time it was correct about Rome having IO die and core chiplets. 

 

I very much believe that he is not lying. If it turns out true we know he hasn't. Even if it doesn't, the leaker itself might have been wrong or lied, not him. Shit would really go down if he was caught lying, so I don't think he does. And nothing in his past points to him lying.

 

But the other hand, redgaming tech or whatever he/they are called have a history of being more false in the past, from what I can remember, when made it seem like something definitely was true.

 

Btw adored doesn't go and say it's a 100% chance his leaker leaks is true. What he says is that he believe it is most likely true, not the same.

 

As we can't see to agree on anything, why not just wait and see how Zen 2 turns out, and then we can discuss more? We have nothing to deny or confirm most of the leak really.

 

I am not saying you should believe it's totally true, you never can with leaks. But some leaks have more chance to be true than others. Only official sources can confirm or deny. It's too early to say.

[CarlBar]

13 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Personally, I don't take anything a "leaker" says seriously because it's not official documentation, rumors, and speculation at best, and being right over rumors/speculation is blind luck at best.  Companies do not like leakers at all.  It's not just about their job being on the line, but it's kind of a legal problem as well.  Considering he keeps stating this over and over, and the fact that it makes major tech news, the company would likely be filing a report on the matter.  Which, in theory, would be investigated, so I have my doubts about him having someone at the company leaking it.  Shittech is code for Wccftech aka the usual suspect when it comes to hypetrain bs.  There's a bit of a difference between protecting someone from their job, and protecting them from law enforcement.  Protecting someone from law enforcement, especially this context, could potentially put Jim in legal trouble too, especially in this regard.  Even more, so considering he profiting off it.

 

I'm not sure on his exact country of residence. But in large parts of the EU they cannot force Adored.tv to give up his source by any legal means or prosecute him for protecting them.

[Mihle]

1 minute ago, CarlBar said:

 

I'm not sure on his exact country of residence. But in large parts of the EU they cannot force Adored.tv to give up his source by any legal means or prosecute him for protecting them.

He lives in Sweden.

[CarlBar]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

I thought he said Scottland.

 

He has family in scotland.

 

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

There's a thing called Interpol that technically could, but I'm pretty sure he's in Scottland. And, he tries to do things legally.  He doesn't want that kind of attention apparently, so again he's likely making it up.

 

No they couldn't.

 

Here's the UK's laws and an overview:

 

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/media-law/journalists-sources/

[Mihle]

35 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

He has no proof other than a statement backed by speculation.  That is not proving anything considering said leakers have been wrong about the information before.  Anyone under an NDA would have official information that would be accurate all the time since AMD updates them on things like delays really quick.  If they worked there it wouldn't be a secret to them that something to delayed at some point. They'd also have constant accurate information.  The fact that it's never completely accurate information backed by the fact that he refuses to supply a single shred of proof is making it obvious it isn't true.  I understand people want to believe him and they want to believe all this rumor bs, but there's not a single shred of it being completely factual in any regard.  Also, him saying it might not be true is enough evidence to call bs about his leaker being under an NDA and/or working for AMD.  The official proof is the only proof.  As, I've said before I only take official stuff seriously, so that's fine.  Adored is just a hype train conductor, nothing more.  It's not official, it's not credible, but it's fun for those who want to believe it.  I get the mentality, but there's an equal amount of bs to it as well.

He can't give proof as that would give away the leaker, he says. He not giving proof does not mean it isn't true, it just means that you don't have proof of it. It can very well still be true, but again, ofc there is no proof. Only way to know is to wait and see.

 

You can do and believe whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that leaks CAN be true. But also can not be. The likeliness of it being changes based on where it comes from. You talk like it's impossible for it to be true, bit that's false. Only time will tell.

[CarlBar]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I don't think that applies to a Scandinavian country if he's in Sweden, though.

 

It's an example of EU law on the matter and the later section includes a bit detailing conflict between the EU court of human rights and those laws, (the former has tended to overrule the UK courts in a number of cases where they've said aye to revealing a source).

[CarlBar]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

No, I'm saying it's shady and not reliable information.  "Hey, I'm usually right about this information and my uncle works at Nintendo.  But, just because my information has been wrong doesn't mean I don't have an uncle that works there.  I won't give you direct proof, but just trust me because my information has been correct before."  -Adored logic in a nutshell.

 

Which is why with leaks you look at how often they've been right vs wrong and you weigh up what they're saying and what everyone else is saying and try to figure out what the consensus is.

 

Leaks are not and never are shady or unreliable information innately. Some leaks are, some leaks aren't The trick is figuring out which is which. And thats what leaker focused outlets like adored specialise in doing , (and laying out their reasoning for the viewer to pick apart and draw their own conclusions from). 

[Mihle]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

I don't think that applies to a Scandinavian country if he's in Sweden, though.

Sweden have laws like that. Adored don't have to give out the info he has on the leaker and police or AMD can not punish him for it/take him to court for it. They can only try to figure out the source on their own and do it to the source, but they can't do it to him.

 

It's a very good law.

 

I would give you a law, but I only found Swedish ones.

[Mihle]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

He does have to give it to his audience if he wants it to be taken seriously.  AIB partners and AMD employees would have updated information, though.  The fact alone that Adored doesn't have this completely accurate information, acts like not naming them is good enough, gives 0 proof of them being that, and his information never being completely accurate really makes this come off as the "my uncle works at Nintendo excuse", though.  Even if neither got in trouble for it, Adored is asking for you to believe him based on trust, not evidence.

There never is evidence with leaks. Well, never one you can trust 100%. The only thing you can do is to look at the past history.

 

We can just wait and see.

[Mihle]

22 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Which was my point.  It is why I don't take this shit seriously.

I never said you should take it as fact, I just said saying all leaks is always BS is wrong. It's somewhere in the middle.

[cj09beira]

6 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

That doesn't mean she heard the whole part about someone working for AMD.  That was a different video than the one on Twitter.  Even if she did hear it, and didn't mind then that goes back to me saying that he would need permission from Lisa.  lol Which means then that there's no reason to hide that guy's identity.  Him alone still treating it that way makes it still seem like he is making shit up about having a contact there.  I don't believe the guy has a source directly from AMD or anyone under an NDA.

things aren't white or black, the world is gray, leaks are hard to follow because it could be a large number of people, and depending on who they are they might not get updates that often, now what Lisa has do to is make sure leaks dont get out of hand, small leaks are hard to stop and mostly dont have large disadvantages to the company, now if the complete roadmap of future products were to leak then heads would roll, but the fact that there would be a IO die on ryzen a few weeks before amd would share that info is not that bad and can even be good marketing, its like parenting its not that you condone your kid doing some bad things, its that as long as they are minor you are not going to get too mad about it.

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

I've tried getting into it.  It's mostly speculation, ranting speculation, some incorrect information, some maybe accurate information, and so on.  Adored's leak on Zen 2 didn't exactly happen.  All we got was the show off of one chip without knowing exactly what Zen 2 CPU it was and that it beat a now aging 9900k.  The information didn't stack up.  The information on Navi didn't stack up, but we got the Radeon VII which has some problems with competing.  Now, we have leaks speculating on "could" over "would", made up non-official names based on Vega naming, this unlikely thing, claims of delays and how this fictitious"Navi 20" is delayed due to a roadmap people are speculating off of, and that even if it did release would be kinda late to the party.  That's not really reliable information and shady at best.  Being correct with rumors and "leaks" is luck at best.  Hence why I don't take this seriously.  Do you know why people are saying the fictional Navi 20 is delayed until next year?  Because leakers, like this guy, see a thing that says "Next-Gen 7NM+ 2020!"  How does that mean that the higher end of Navi is delayed until next year?  Where is the credible proof about this?  There is none!  It's basically guys like Adored speculating off shit like that then using the "my uncle works at Nintendo!" excuse to seem credible.  You and others can take this shit as credible if you want, but that's not credible information it's luck if correct.  People are treating luck as credibility.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/my-uncle-works-at-nintendo

adored's leak was not proven false, we simply didn't get much info during CES, we will only know if his leak is true or not when they launch zen 2.

saying that a leak being true is luck at best is kinda disrespectful to those putting their jobs on the line to keep us entertained.

about navi 20 there is no delay that i am aware of, its launch window is simply latter on (from the leaks so far), now it is true that navi 20 leaks have been quite small and not very specific but that is to be expected considering how long it will take to launch.

about your claims that adored and others are simply speculating, we got the full specs of vega 20 a full year before release, with everything major except clockspeeds, how could anyone have guessed that, and the fact that epyc would have 8 dies people were not expecting that initially, and there many other cases that show some leaks are actually true.

[cj09beira]

13 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The only confirmed Vega 20 card, iirc, was the Radeon VII which is just a repurposed Instinct card.  I don't believe there is an official document of any other part of the new Vega 20.  There is no proof of a Navi 10 and Navi 20.  There is no proof of delays.  There is no proof of these 3080 and others all the leakers are ranting about it's pure speculation.

https://www.cowcotland.com/news/66004/radeon-vii-une-carte-graphique-pour-patienter-jusqu-a-octobre-pour-l-architecture-navi.html

^Where has AMD directly stated any of this?

People are using a roadmap to claim higher end Navi cards for next year when there's nothing more than what I've said before on that road map.



Where is all this official stuff that was supposed to happen at CES?  This is Adored's own leak.  All we got was an unnamed engineering sample that people are speculating over.  XD  This is such bad information that people overhype.  I don't remember any of these at CES.  Also, I don't think Adored knows how a keynote works either.

vega 20 is the name of the die, which is the same wherever its used, and most of its specs were leaked a full year in advance, 

https://videocardz.com/65521/amd-vega-10-and-vega-20-slides-revealed thats january 2017, we didnt even have vega consumer cards out then, 

we not having official proof DOESN'T mean that it isn't true, you go from we dont have proof to it Must be speculation which is a very large jump

[Mihle]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

Speculating is a theory on a subject without firm evidence.  Adored speculated that so much would happen at CES, and that shit never happened as shown above.  See the edit where people are speculating over delays and names without official evidence aka how one speculates.  The fact that there isn't firm evidence means that these leakers are speculating.  When you use the "my uncle works at Nintendo!" defense as your source, give no firm/official evidence, and make rants about "could" over "will" you're speculating.  Even if you get lucky and are correct you are still speculating based off a strong lack of firm evidence.

A person doesn't speculate if he have proof, but can't show it to you.

[Mihle]

33 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Their proof isn't firm evidence nor credible at all, and it has to be for this.  It's based on "Take my word for it!  This guy is credible, but I can't prove it!"  Adored's videos are based on taking information from sources he is clearly lying about then makes rants based on speculation.  Even Red did this.  Heck, he even stated, iirc, he cannot prove it.  That's not firm evidence!  Your proof has to be firm evidence by definition!  They are creating theories based on a strong lack of firm evidence.  By definition that is speculating! 

Bring up examples on stuff he have lied about in the past.

 

You only know what they have shared, not what they have.

 

If a person have evidence for some info, it is not speculation by that person if he/she shares the info, but don't share the evidence.

The receiver can not prove he/she does or doesn't have the evidence, and therefore only have the persons word for it, or not, but if he/she actually does have the evidence, it's not speculation by him/her.

 

In this spesific example, adored can not share the info he has about who the leaker is because that would make the leaker no longer anonymous, and the leaker could then be in throuble. Saying he is def making it  up or if it's def real, is both wrong. We can't know for sure untill zen 2 comes out.

[RejZoR]

I don't get it why people complain so much about Adored. I like listening to his speculations, he gets most of them right. I just wish he had a slightly shorter format videos, but oh well.

[Mihle]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Scroll up.

I edited my post btw.

 

You haven't said any examples about him lying yet, you have just claimed he does. The CES thing doesn't mean he is lying. It can just mean someone in the link understood something wrong or worded it wrong, as they did show something about Zen 2 at CES.

[CarlBar]

2 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

The only confirmed Vega 20 card, iirc, was the Radeon VII which is just a repurposed Instinct card.  I don't believe there is an official document of any other part of the new Vega 20.  There is no proof of a Navi 10 and Navi 20.  There is no proof of delays.  There is no proof of these 3080 and others all the leakers are ranting about it's pure speculation.

https://www.cowcotland.com/news/66004/radeon-vii-une-carte-graphique-pour-patienter-jusqu-a-octobre-pour-l-architecture-navi.html

^Where has AMD directly stated any of this?

People are using a roadmap to claim higher end Navi cards for next year when there's nothing more than what I've said before on that road map.



Where is all this official stuff that was supposed to happen at CES?  This is Adored's own leak.  All we got was an unnamed engineering sample that people are speculating over.  XD  This is such bad information that people overhype.  I don't remember any of these at CES.  Also, I don't think Adored knows how a keynote works.

https://www.techpowerup.com/240384/amd-reveals-cpu-graphics-2018-2020-roadmap-at-ces?cp=2
There's a Graphics arc map in this link.  Do you see the part under 2020?  People are speculating that the unconfirmed Navi 20 is the higher end of Navi and delayed until then due to that part where it says, "NEXT-GEN".  This leak and speculation that didn't actually come from AMD directly is kinda bad information.  This is why I don't follow leaks.  The information is usually shit.  I do love how Adored and Red keep using the whole, "I have this source that is pretty credible"  or, "My source works at AMD" then expects you to trust them on this after telling you they can't or refuse to outright prove it.  They can't even prove it's the same source every time that made the claims.  So, how do we know it's always this mysterious source being right all the time?  I'm just supposed to sit here and take their word for it?  That's exactly why I keep bringing up, "My uncle works at Nintendo!"

 

Ok my ability to take you seriously just evaporated. Your inability to differentiate between the concepts of facts, unconfirmed information, speculation, and lies is simply too dumb for me to treat it seriously.