Do I require an Amp and a DAC ?

[Angel Yuno]

I've recently bought sennheisers 599 and the sounds is quiet compared to my previous gaming headphones. I am stearing away form the gaming brandig to glorify products, and strive for raw audio quality. With this being said, I have done some research and it seems that my headphones do require an Amp ? Im not 100% sure so i would like some help with this. Simply put, do i require both DAC and Amp, or amp/DAC alone, and if so which one to pick for it to be sufficient for my headphones. Or perhaps i should go for a sound card along with it (or perhapd only a sound car) ? Any advice and help is greatly appreciated as I dive into the whole audio world. Thank you in advance ^^

[iBabySlapper]

The 599 shouldn't need an amp, but you could see if an amp would give you better results (it most likely would).

As a beginner, I would suggest that if you are getting a amp, to try getting a DAC/AMP combo like the SMSL M3, SMSL SD793 or the SABAJ D3.

If you don't want to spend £50+, I'd suggest the Creative SoundBlaster X G1, as it less expensive and can still provide enough power to run 200-ish Ohm headphones, and the DAC isn't awful on it.

[Angel Yuno]

I would like to make myself future proof to an extent as i would like to begin getting more serious with my sound as music is gradually growing more appealing to me. So hypothetically to get the most out of my current headphones and any future higher quality headphones, what would you advise ?

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

2 minutes ago, Angel Yuno said:

I would like to make myself future proof to an extent as i would like to begin getting more serious with my sound as music is gradually growing more appealing to me. So hypothetically to get the most out of my current headphones and any future higher quality headphones, what would you advise ?

Asus Xonar STX, decent DAC and it can support Headphones upto 300 ohms no problem, 2nd hand 65 quid.

 

I use it for my Sennheiser HD 58X

[iBabySlapper]

7 minutes ago, Angel Yuno said:

I would like to make myself future proof to an extent as i would like to begin getting more serious with my sound as music is gradually growing more appealing to me. So hypothetically to get the most out of my current headphones and any future higher quality headphones, what would you advise ?

I'd get a USB DAC, and a seperate amp combo, like the one in my signature.

[Angel Yuno]

So i would be perfectly fine with a usb DAC and an amp rather that aiming for a sound card and then DAC/Amp ?

 

[iBabySlapper]

1 minute ago, Angel Yuno said:

So i would be perfectly fine with a usb DAC and an amp rather that aiming for a sound card and then DAC/Amp ?

 

Yeah, I'd choose a USB DAC since it's more convenient than a PCIE card.

Also, if you used a USB DAC and a PCIE card together, you'd be negating the point of the PCIE card

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

8 minutes ago, Angel Yuno said:

So i would be perfectly fine with a usb DAC and an amp rather that aiming for a sound card and then DAC/Amp ?

 

This entirely depends on you.  Many people point their nose at sound card because they generally don't appreciate that quality is dependent on how the component is engineered and the chip inside the card or USB DAC.  The reason I recommend the Asus Xonar Essence STX is because it uses the equivalent or superior chip to any DAC under 100, with the added bonus of being able to easily drive 300 ohms headphones and connect to an external amp for 2.0 speakers.

[Angel Yuno]

Mhm, I see. Okay this cleared up a lot of things. Thank you for the help.

[iBabySlapper]

4 minutes ago, Angel Yuno said:

Mhm, I see. Okay this cleared up a lot of things. Thank you for the help.

If you want more recommendations, guides and reviews, I suggest you check out Zeos' Youtube and Reddit. He does reviews and sometimes answers questions on Twitch stream.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/

https://www.youtube.com/user/ZeosReviews

 

[Dackzy]

3 hours ago, ibabyslapper said:

If you want more recommendations, guides and reviews, I suggest you check out Zeos' Youtube and Reddit. He does reviews and sometimes answers questions on Twitch stream.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/

https://www.youtube.com/user/ZeosReviews

 

I suggest that you don't, because he really doesn't hear that well. He gets so much wrong, like he can't hear big dips in frequency response and he has called headphones with elevated bass for neutral and stuff like that, those are straight exsamples from videos he has done (AF180 and SRH1540). I wouldn't trust a word he says about anything audio related. You also hear him say stuff like "these sound good because they just do".

 

3 hours ago, TheFlyingSquirrel said:

This entirely depends on you.  Many people point their nose at sound card because they generally don't appreciate that quality is dependent on how the component is engineered and the chip inside the card or USB DAC.  The reason I recommend the Asus Xonar Essence STX is because it uses the equivalent or superior chip to any DAC under 100, with the added bonus of being able to easily drive 300 ohms headphones and connect to an external amp for 2.0 speakers.

The chip doesn't mean a DAC is better than another DAC It is all about the implementation of the chip, you can easily have a chip that is technically worse than another chip, but the DAC the worse chip is in could perform better if the implementation of the chip is better.

 

You can find chips like the AK4490 in gear that is $100 and probably less, but you can also find that chip in gear that cost $1000 and they sound very different and offer different levels of detail.

 

 

For OP I personally wouldn't look into a DAC and amp for your headphones, simply because they aren't that detailed and they are fairly easy to power, but if you really want one, then I highly recommend going with something that has a low output impedance, the lower the better. Schiit offers some good entry level options. Also OP the sensitivity or efficiency is the main thing you should look at when it comes to how hard a headphone will be to power, but that part shouldn't really be something you should worry too much about, since most decent stand alone amps or combo units can power most of the common headphones.

 

Also keep in mind, if you get a DAC then you absolutely need a amp or else you won't be able to power the headphones, but if you buy a amp then you can use your onboards DAC. There are also combo units like the schiit fulla 2 and Monoprice desktop amp and so on.

 

If you are set on getting a DAC and amp, then I would either get a schiit fulla 2 or a modi 3 and magni 3 which should serve you well, though the modi 3 and magni 3 is a more powerful and flexiable setup compared to the fulla 2. If you ever want to upgrade from those then I would recommend that you wait until you have high end headphones and have the money for like some of the 1k+ units, because a lot of the gear inbetween entry level and entry high end is rather mediorce for its price. Though keep in mind the modi 3 and magni 3 is rather overkill for what you have right now and you would see a bigger improvement going with a better headphone.

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

 

You seemed to have missed my point about how a component DAC, soundcard etc is engineered ie chip, electronics.. are  implemented in a unit.

 

Also he said future proof.

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, TheFlyingSquirrel said:

You seemed to have missed my point about how a component DAC, soundcard etc is engineered ie chip, electronics.. are  implemented in a unit.

 

Also he said future proof.

uhm you need caps and such...

Just an example of a component DAC, lower the quality of some of the caps and the quality of the DAC goes down. That's what I meant by impementation..

just so you can see where I found it https://www.crutchfield.com/S-SvuZ012T1pg/g_372050/Component-Hi-fi-DACs.html

 

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

 

Then why do dislike this card?   "Caps and such" are good quality, and the card is tunable.

[Dackzy]

16 minutes ago, TheFlyingSquirrel said:

Then why do dislike this card?   "Caps and such" are good quality, and the card is tunable.

I don't have a dislike for that specific card, it is just that you can do better today. I actually have a fair amount of respect for that specific card since for me it was a part of a wave that made normal consumers more interested in audio.

 

it is more prone to interference, chances are that the implemention isn't the best and you can frankly get better things today. For what that card cost I can get a schiit stack aka the modi 3 and magni 3. I have actually done some tests with my friends STX and his modi 2 uber and the magni 2, the stack was the winner in detail and power. 

With external gear you also don't have to worry about interference, at least not to the same degree.

 

Also a tunable card means a colored sound, granted everything is colored in some way, some just less or more than others.

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

55 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

 

You don't know much about this card then, it sold in low volumes, it was never well regarded in any forums, it was seen as an alternative to the E10 of that time if you really wanted a sound card.  It changed nothing about consumers views on audio.  The DAC hype train however did.

 

It actually isn't prone to interference, had it reviewed by a friend of mine who was a sound engineer.    The card can only be purchased 2nd, which makes it quarter of the cost of stack you mentioned new.    I cannot speak for the STX II which is actually a lesser card.

 

STX is neutral out of box, tunable to be colored.

 

I wouldn't say everything is color, there is alot of neutral only gear out there

 

 

 

[Dackzy]

10 hours ago, TheFlyingSquirrel said:

You don't know much about this card then, it sold in low volumes, it was never well regarded in any forums, it was seen as an alternative to the E10 of that time if you really wanted a sound card.  It changed nothing about consumers views on audio.  The DAC hype train however did.

 

It actually isn't prone to interference, had it reviewed by a friend of mine who was a sound engineer.    The card can only be purchased 2nd, which makes it quarter of the cost of stack you mentioned new.    I cannot speak for the STX II which is actually a lesser card.

 

STX is neutral out of box, tunable to be colored.

 

I wouldn't say everything is color, there is alot of neutral only gear out there

 

 

 

I never claimed that it sold well, I claimed that it was a part of a wave that helped put more focus on audio for the normal consumer. It most certainly changed a lot of consumers where I live, I know quite a few people that got more interested in audio because they could get something that seemed easy to use and rather cheap compared to the offerings that were here back then. Keep in mind we are in completely different countries and we are probably also in completely different circles when it comes to the people that surround us. I agree that the likes of the O2/ODAC and especially the schiit modi and magni made a bigger impact, especially the modi 2 and magni 2.

 

Anything that isn't 100% shielded is prone to some degree of interference, that is just basic EE. 

The stack can also be had 2nd hand, I have seen 2nd Gen stacks go for as little as $80 though those cases are rare, but $120-140 isn't, at least not if you check audio forums. And I highly disagree with the STX being neutral out of the box, because it most certainly isn't when you stack it up against things from the likes of Dangerous Music, RME and Crane Song.

 

Very little gear is neutral, you have to pay quite a bit if you want something that is neutral, since it mostly is within the pro scene that you will find such gear. Most consumer DACs and amps have a tilt to warmth. Schiit, Chord, Topping, Aune, Soekris, Holo Audio, Audio GD and many more all have colored gear, just in different ways.