Would it be possible to build your own internet infrastructure?

[IAmAndre]

Let's say you're sick of the world and decide to live remotely. You can produce your own food, install solar panels to produce your own electricity, etc. Now what about internet? Would it be possible to have an internet access without using the services of an ISP? I know internet via satellite is a thing and could be a decent solution, but I think you'd still need a subscription or something. Is there any alternative?

[Lurick]

Yes, it's called an intranet. One example is you just cut off your link to the ISP and you've got a local intranet.

 

Edit:

You just need the equipment to host a network as small or as big as you want without a connection to the "outside"

[IAmAndre]

2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Yes, it's called an intranet. One example is you just cut off your link to the ISP and you've got a local intranet.

 

Edit:

You just need the equipment to host a network as small or as big as you want without a connection to the "outside"

No that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about internet access without relying on an ISP.

[Lurick]

1 minute ago, IAmAndre said:

No that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about internet access without relying on an ISP.

There is always an ISP of some kind, just depends on how you connect to the existing infrastructure. You either build your own network and connect to an exchange or other backbone provider, or you connect via a traditional ISP but in all cases you're going to pay money.

[mikedrewsmy]

Spoiler

 

[IAmAndre]

4 minutes ago, mikedrewsmy said:

https://www.whoishostingthis.com/blog/2015/03/09/start-your-own-isp/

Interesting. Thanks

[Bouzoo]

6 minutes ago, mikedrewsmy said:

Loooooooooooooong pictures

Please, use [spoilers] for the love of all that's holy.

[Derrk]

its possible, but you'll need to invest in your own series of tubes

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, IAmAndre said:

Let's say you're sick of the world and decide to live remotely. You can produce your own food, install solar panels to produce your own electricity, etc. Now what about internet? Would it be possible to have an internet access without using the services of an ISP? I know internet via satellite is a thing and could be a decent solution, but I think you'd still need a subscription or something. Is there any alternative?

If you still want to connect to the greater World Wide Web (The "Internet" as you know it), then no, you'll still need an ISP of some description.

 

Getting Satellite Internet, for example - the Satellite provider is now your ISP.

 

You could setup your own fibre infrastructure, and then connect to a larger network - either a local ISP, or a backbone provider, such as Level 3 Communications (They're essentially "ISP's" that run the major "highway" connections in between other ISP's and between countries and continents, etc).

 

But then realistically, that other network becomes your ISP.

 

You could create your own isolated "Internet", which would just be a glorified Intranet.

[JCBiggs]

The only reason there is isp's is because everyone decides to use the same toll roads for quickest connection.  One day the mesh will do away with that. Instead you'll pay for direct connections to mesh nodes closer to the source but it wont be the same as an isp that routes ALL your traffic.   Individuals will be able to profit by hosting things like cache servers and local routing tables.  

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

3 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

The only reason there is isp's is because everyone decides to use the same toll roads for quickest connection.  One day the mesh will do away with that. Instead you'll pay for direct connections to mesh nodes closer to the source but it wont be the same as an isp that routes ALL your traffic.   Individuals will be able to profit by hosting things like cache servers and local routing tables.  

 

I'm not convinced of that, especially as the security issues there are HUGE and the routing would be insanely complicated.

[Lurick]

4 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

The only reason there is isp's is because everyone decides to use the same toll roads for quickest connection.  One day the mesh will do away with that. Instead you'll pay for direct connections to mesh nodes closer to the source but it wont be the same as an isp that routes ALL your traffic.   Individuals will be able to profit by hosting things like cache servers and local routing tables.  

 

So what you're saying is we'll do away with ISPs completely and then have a group of people who come out and maintain the infrastructure, run lines to new homes, host cache servers, and deal with all the complex routing and interconnect points, for a fee

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Lurick said:

So what you're saying is we'll do away with ISPs completely and then have a group of people who come out and maintain the infrastructure, run lines to new homes, host cache servers, and deal with all the complex routing and interconnect points, for a fee

People that... provide a service... to access the Internet.

 

Revolutionary! We'll have to come up with a new term for this new entry in the Gig economy!

 

You might call them... Internet... uhm... Service.... yeah, yeah... Providers!

[JCBiggs]

7 hours ago, Lurick said:

So what you're saying is we'll do away with ISPs completely and then have a group of people who come out and maintain the infrastructure, run lines to new homes, host cache servers, and deal with all the complex routing and interconnect points, for a fee

The mesh tech will handle all of the "complications" and the system  will be wireless.  You will still be able to access fast lanes,  which  will  be the isp's we have now since they are the most readily equipped to provide the service,  but it won't be mandatory (meaning if your broke it won't cost you anything) 

 

The most likely scenario is that you'll just buy a service,  netflix, for example and netflix will pay for the fast lanes, or direct you to a close cache or mirror that you can reach over the mesh quickly.   There will also be larger, higher throughput mesh nodes with those fast lanes connections as well so you won't always be 30 or 50 hops away.  Yes its technically still "the internet," but the isp's won't exist as we know them. 

 

I guess what i'm trying to say in simplest terms is that right now you HAVE to pay for ANY connection to the internet. (Or someone does)   In the future you won't,  unless you want to.  

[JCBiggs]

6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

People that... provide a service... to access the Internet.

 

Revolutionary! We'll have to come up with a new term for this new entry in the Gig economy!

 

You might call them... Internet... uhm... Service.... yeah, yeah... Providers!

Don't be a prick. You aren't that good at it.  As I stated above, what I was implying was the current business model of the isp will not exist.  

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, JCBiggs said:

Don't be a prick. You aren't that good at it.  As I stated above, what I was implying was the current business model of the isp will not exist.  

I fully understand your implication - but it's simply not going to happen so long as humanity exists with a capitalist society.

 

There's quite simply no reason for the scenario you describe. ISP's (and backbone carriers, for that matter) - whether you love them or hate them - provide a very specific service beyond simply connecting to various other networks farther out in the web. They provide service and support, and physical repair.

 

Infrastructure costs money to maintain. Support costs time. Repairs require replacement parts, as well as experts to maintain the equipment.

 

We might see more co-operative type setups on a micro scale - eg: a condo highrise maintains their own network, or a home owners association deploying a fixed wireless system to all households, etc. But these all typically connect to a larger existing network, or exchange, or just straight up have an ISP of their own.

 

But it would take a paradigm shift in global economics, before such a scenario would happen.

[JCBiggs]

On 8/25/2018 at 1:19 AM, dalekphalm said:

I fully understand your implication - but it's simply not going to happen so long as humanity exists with a capitalist society.

 

There's quite simply no reason for the scenario you describe. ISP's (and backbone carriers, for that matter) - whether you love them or hate them - provide a very specific service beyond simply connecting to various other networks farther out in the web. They provide service and support, and physical repair.

 

Infrastructure costs money to maintain. Support costs time. Repairs require replacement parts, as well as experts to maintain the equipment.

 

We might see more co-operative type setups on a micro scale - eg: a condo highrise maintains their own network, or a home owners association deploying a fixed wireless system to all households, etc. But these all typically connect to a larger existing network, or exchange, or just straight up have an ISP of their own.

 

But it would take a paradigm shift in global economics, before such a scenario would happen.

The one thing your forgetting is that outside of the rx/TX antennas there isn't much infrastructure required.  This makes it cheap. And you're right capitalism will win. Someone will offer a peice of hardware that gives you free access and that will be the beginning of the internet moving from wired and controlled to  wireless and organic.  

[dalekphalm]

35 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

The one thing your forgetting is that outside of the rx/TX antennas there isn't much infrastructure required.  This makes it cheap. And you're right capitalism will win. Someone will offer a peice of hardware that gives you free access and that will be the beginning of the internet moving from wired and controlled to  wireless and organic.  

And as soon as stuff starts to go wrong (misconfigurations, bad hardware, inconsistent protocols with peer networks, etc), people will realize why this isn’t already a thing. 

 

Sure, the manufacturer could provide support - but then they are essentially an ISP now. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

The thing is though, while mesh networking might be possible for basic Internet access I can't see it ever having decent speed.

 

Wireless will always be over-contended with limited bandwidth compared to fibre and who is going to pay for the uplinks to the backbones?

 

While I expect the day will come soon where we don't need to host in the cloud because our home broadband is fast enough to handle everything locally, 99.9% of people wont go for that.  There will always be datacentres and how do you uplink to those?

[JCBiggs]

 as I have said, I think the links to those fast lanes, and data centers will be paid for by the services you buy.   IF your an ISP and suddenly a big chunk of your customers just ups and leaves, where are you going to find the money to replace them?  I think when you buy a subscription to netflix, that you will automatically get the fast lane access.  Most likely by this point in time, the basic internet connection will already be free in your home, or connected, but locked down (with your netflix subscription being the key)  but if that doesn't happen, its possible you could be  nodes from an "internet" uplink, or maybe someone in your complex gets paid for having a cache server who knows.   Mesh networking is very fast. Just as fast as any other wifi,  the problem it has is latency and routing.  However, the larger the mesh, the less this matters and the have improved on the routing quite a bit in the last few years.