1070ti Rumored to be a LOCKED gpu

[MadyTehWolfie]

9 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

It's almost as if AMD can't compete..

 

They can't unless they invest the same amount they did into their cpu's into their gpu's, least that's what I think.

[dexT]

This is sandbagging. Release the f'ing Volta already.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, dexT said:

This is sandbagging. Release the f'ing Volta already.

You say that like sandbagging has no positive outcomes for consumers.

 

 

[dexT]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You say that like sandbagging has no positive outcomes for consumers.

 

 

I don't care. I'd rather have cutting edge super fast hardware on the market than these positive outcomes(wat?).

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, dexT said:

 positive outcomes(wat?).

Delayed gratification versus instant gratification for the consumer.  But for the company balancing their product availability against consumer demand they can maximise the money they have to invest in the next product.  Meaning overall you get better product advances (very necessary for any competing company) All companies do this when they can because it is a financial necessity for survival.

 

So Nvidia could release volta now which would eat into the remaining 10 series sales which would lower their overall revenue thus giving them less to invest and maintain profits. 

[dexT]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Delayed gratification versus instant gratification for the consumer.  But for the company balancing their product availability against consumer demand they can maximise the money they have to invest in the next product.  Meaning overall you get better product advances (very necessary for any competing company) All companies do this when they can because it is a financial necessity for survival.

 

So Nvidia could release volta now which would eat into the remaining 10 series sales which would lower their overall revenue thus giving them less to invest and maintain profits. 

Wow. All I can say is

 

[laminutederire]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

They don't release it mostly because Volta doesn't really offer much more than Pascal anyway for gaming (hence why the CEO says it's unbeatable). They haven't changed of architecture for a while and it does seem like they don't really find a way to find a better arch for gaming, or at least not significantly better ones. So they have to stall until they find one, or to have the possibility to shrink the architecture down, or leverage better yields to release fatter GPUs for every price point.

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

They don't release it mostly because Volta doesn't really offer much more than Pascal anyway for gaming (hence why the CEO says it's unbeatable). They haven't changed of architecture for a while and it does seem like they don't really find a way to find a better arch for gaming, or at least not significantly better ones. So they have to stall until they find one, or to have the possibility to shrink the architecture down, or leverage better yields to release fatter GPUs for every price point.

 

Which all amounts to balancing product availability to maximise revenue.  As I said before, but some people just don't reckoning that here is a whole other side to the industry (any industry) beyond their gimme gimme gimme attitudes. 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, dexT said:

Wow. All I can say is

 

Insults are not valid rebuttals.  And against the standards.

[dexT]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Insults are not valid rebuttals.  And against the standards.

Ok how is "Delayed gratification versus instant gratification for the consumer" a positive outcome for the consumer exactly?

 

Report me.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, dexT said:

Ok how is "Delayed gratification versus instant gratification for the consumer" a positive outcome for the consumer exactly?

 

Report me.

 

I didn't say that was the outcome,  It is the driving factor in demand for product to which manufacturers have to supply.  Cave into the instant gratification demand too soon and fill the coffers versus making them wait and getting products competitive enough to release for a more stable ongoing revenue stream and product advancement. 

 

If you want to see what happens to companies that cash in early on consumer demand look at dell and 3dFX (god rest their soul ), they saw a dollar in making their own boards as there was a consumer demand for right now, they bought STB and that was essentially their undoing.  AMD neasrly went the same way.  Dell became huge by cutting out the middle man in custom PC sales,  They sold and rose quickly, but to their own demise because they hadn't planned beyond that. when none of their customers needed to upgrade and the rest of the industry had caught on (online sales) they are now chasing the pack, not leading it.

 

Every industry is the same,  a balance between moving forward, not stagnating and not fucking up your own market.  Sandbagging is an essential method for controlling supply demand and product value.

[dexT]

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I didn't say that was the outcome,  It is the driving factor in demand for product to which manufacturers have to supply.  Cave into the instant gratification demand too soon and fill the coffers versus making them wait and getting products competitive enough to release for a more stable ongoing revenue stream and product advancement. 

 

If you want to see what happens to companies that cash in early on consumer demand look at dell and 3dFX (god rest their soul ), they saw a dollar in making their own boards as there was a consumer demand for right now, they bought STB and that was essentially their undoing.  AMD neasrly went the same way.  Dell became huge by cutting out the middle man in custom PC sales,  They sold and rose quickly, but to their own demise because they hadn't planned beyond that. when none of their customers needed to upgrade and the rest of the industry had caught on (online sales) they are now chasing the pack, not leading it.

 

Every industry is the same,  a balance between moving forward, not stagnating and not fucking up your own market.  Sandbagging is an essential method for controlling supply demand and product value.

No. Innovation will drive sales, look at Ryzen.

 

They know a large amount of people will buy the next series of cards even if they just bought a 1080/ti/titan so yes, they want to milk the pascal cow. This is stagnation.

 

Edit: How is delayed gratification good for the consumer? They're sitting on a market ready Volta right now.

[thorhammerz]

46 minutes ago, dexT said:

Edit: How is delayed gratification good for the consumer? They're sitting on a market ready Volta right now.

Good for the consumer: quite debatable.

 

Good for the company: oh very much so.

 

Much of what Mr. Moose has described is simply NVIDIA looking to maximize profits. And lest we forget, a business seeks to serve its own interest (e.g. fattening the bottom line and increasing share prices), and not the interest(s) of its consumer base beyond what makes the consumer cough up $$$ to them.

 

A look at their stock price performance, and past earnings reports, I'd say they are doing quite well for themselves, and thus will continue to adopt similar strategies going forward since that's what's working in the past & present . 

[dexT]

6 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Good for the consumer: quite debatable.

 

Good for the company: oh very much so.

 

Much of what Mr. Moose has described is simply NVIDIA looking to maximize profits. And lest we forget, a business seeks to serve its own interest (the bottom line), and not the interest(s) consumer base beyond what makes the consumer cough up $$$ to them. 

For example: How would it be good if say, the auto manufacturers thought "we have this fuel injection system but we don't want our buyers to have instant gratification so it's carburetors for the next 5yrs"?

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, dexT said:

No. Innovation will drive sales, look at Ryzen.

 

They know a large amount of people will buy the next series of cards even if they just bought a 1080/ti/titan so yes, they want to milk the pascal cow. This is stagnation.

 

Edit: How is delayed gratification good for the consumer? They're sitting on a market ready Volta right now.

 

You need stable revenue before you have the cash to innovate.  Look at how long AMD was fighting to release half decent CPU.   That's what happens when you don't have steady revenue stream to prop up R+D.   Relying on people buying the latest just because it is is not by itself going to keep the company afloat.

 

The idea is that by maximizing sales gets maximum revenue (even if that means sitting on a product), which means more in the bank to produce a better product tomorrow. AMD failed to maximise sales and that lead to the big lull they had in product development. 

 

10 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Good for the consumer: quite debatable.

 

Good for the company: oh very much so.

 

Much of what Mr. Moose has described is simply NVIDIA looking to maximize profits. And lest we forget, a business seeks to serve its own interest (the bottom line), and not the interest(s) consumer base beyond what makes the consumer cough up $$$ to them. 

 

Pretty much that, but more so if a company loses to much revenue because it release a new product too early, it means less in the bank for R+D which means the consumer gets less the next time around.

[dexT]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

You need stable revenue before you have the cash to innovate.  Look at how long AMD was fighting to release half decent CPU.   That's what happens when you don't have steady revenue stream to prop up R+D.   Relying on people buying the latest just because it is is not by itself going to keep the company afloat.

 

The idea is that by maximizing sales gets maximum revenue (even if that means sitting on a product), which means more in the bank to produce a better product tomorrow. AMD failed to maximise sales and that lead to the big lull they had in product development. 

 

 

Pretty much that, but more so if a company loses to much revenue because it release a new product too early, it means less in the bank for R+D which means the consumer gets less the next time around.

 

Respond to my recent post please-

3 minutes ago, dexT said:

For example: How would it be good if say, the auto manufacturers thought "we have this fuel injection system but we don't want our buyers to have instant gratification so it's carburetors for the next 5yrs"?

 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, dexT said:

For example: How would it be good if say, the auto manufacturers thought "we have this fuel injection system but we don't want our buyers to have instant gratification so it's carburetors for the next 5yrs"?

 

maybe think about it this way,  the auto manufacturer has 50,000 carby cars in stock, is developing EFI but it's only just better than carby,  they can release now and people will be less interested in their product becasue thins new product isn't much better and the car makers still has 50,000 cars they can't sell.  Or they wait until the 50,000 are almost all sold and put that revenue into making the EFI even better.

 

With the later the consumer gets a better product.

[dexT]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

maybe think about i this way,  the auto manufacturer has 50,000 carby cars in stock, is developing EFI but it's only just better than carby,  they can release now and people will be less interested in their product becasue thins new product isn't much better and the car makers still has 50,000 cars they can't sell.  Or they wait until the 50,000 are almost all sold and put that revenue into making the EFI even better.

 

With the later the consumer gets a better product.

Why does any new product/feature ever get released then? No need to R&D and huge batch sizes would decrease production costs.

 

Edit: I said sitting on it for 5yrs not selling 50k unit which would be take a month or less.

[mr moose]

Just now, dexT said:

Why does any new product/feature ever get released then? No need to R&D and huge batch sizes would decrease production costs.

because no improvement is dead,  too fast an improvement equals uncertainty, balance equals growth and stability for uncertain times.  Like what happens if AMD releases vega 2 and Nvidias sales drop enough to warrant needing something new to release (but they can't because they have already released it).  Imagine what would have happened to Intel's sales if they couldn't bring CL release forward. 

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, dexT said:

Edit: I said sitting on it for 5yrs not selling 50k unit which would be take a month or less.

 

Just using the figures for an illustrative purpose.   My point is they would sit on it long enough to maximise profit and make sure the next product was better, rather than just release straight up and hope it didn't have a negative effect on sales and leave them with nothing to release later (or worse an update fix a rushed launch).

[dexT]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

  Imagine what would have happened to Intel's sales if they couldn't bring CL release forward. 

They rushed it to market not delaying the customers gratification.

 

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Just using the figures for an illustrative purpose.   My point is they would sit on it long enough to maximise profit and make sure the next product was better, rather than just release straight up and hope it didn't have a negative effect on sales and leave them with nothing to release later (or worse an update fix a rushed launch).

They chose the move and chose to cut out more dies. The product is ready. The next generation after Volta would come sooner for the consumer the sooner Volta is released which would be a good thing for the consumer(faster and more features for the same price is better for the end user).

[mr moose]

46 minutes ago, dexT said:

They rushed it to market not delaying the customers gratification.

 

But they didn't want to rush it, that's the point.  they had to answer Ryzen, if there was no Ryzen then CL would have been held of until they had supplies to meet demand. and also they wouldn't have had to do the 7700K bundle deal. If they had of pushed CL out the door earlier then they may not have had anything ready to counter Ryzen.  And that hurts sales.

 

46 minutes ago, dexT said:

 

They chose the move and chose to cut out more dies. The product is ready. The next generation after Volta would come sooner for the consumer the sooner Volta is released which would be a good thing for the consumer(faster and more features for the same price is better for the end user).

 Volta being ready for release and being prudent to release early are two different things,  Because we don't know what comes after volta nor how much money Nvidia will need to finish it.    As I said before, sending volta out early may well hurt sales of their 10 series which will reduce revenue, if that revenue is needed for the R+D of what comes after volta and there isn't enough, then that will either delay said release or said release will have less features/more problems. neither options are beneficial for consumers. 

 

 

 

[dexT]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

But they didn't want to rush it, that's the point.  they had to answer Ryzen, if there was no Ryzen then CL would have been held of until they had supplies to meet demand. and also they wouldn't have had to do the 7700K bundle deal. If they had of pushed CL out the door earlier then they may not have had anything ready to counter Ryzen.  And that hurts sales.

 

 Volta being ready for release and being prudent to release early are two different things,  Because we don't know what comes after volta nor how much money Nvidia will need to finish it.    As I said before, sending volta out early may well hurt sales of their 10 series which will reduce revenue, if that revenue is needed for the R+D of what comes after volta and there isn't enough, then that will either delay said release or said release will have less features/more problems. neither options are beneficial for consumers. 

 

 

 

So you want them to wait until sales for pascal is zero? They could have not cut the last round pascal dies and launched Volta... they chose to make more pascal when Volta is done.

[Dylanc1500]

17 minutes ago, dexT said:

So you want them to wait until sales for pascal is zero? They could have not cut the last round pascal dies and launched Volta... they chose to make more pascal when Volta is done.

I want just interject a thought for you. You are making the assumption that because the V100 (which, mind you costs roughly $1000 to produce) die is complete that they will instantly have something compelling enough for release to the consumers. They very well may not have consumer "purposed" dies ready. There is a lot of relevant information that is not available. If they jump the gun before it's a fully compelling lineup, then they might not make quite the revenue as compared to if they waited till they could develop it a little further to make it more enticing for people to purchase. It is a game of timing. To early you lose money because people won't buy the product because it isn't enough of an upgrade to purchase, wait too long and someone my purchase the competitors product or purchasing slows to a point that they aren't bringing in the revenue that is needed. It's a balance.

 

but that's all I'm going to say, this is kind of off topic and it is bed time for me lol. 

 

 

[dexT]

18 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

I want just interject a thought for you. You are making the assumption that because the V100 (which, mind you costs roughly $1000 to produce) die is complete that they will instantly have something compelling enough for release to the consumers. They very well may not have consumer "purposed" dies ready. There is a lot of relevant information that is not available. If they jump the gun before it's a fully compelling lineup, then they might not make quite the revenue as compared to if they waited till they could develop it a little further to make it more enticing for people to purchase. It is a game of timing. To early you lose money because people won't buy the product because it isn't enough of an upgrade to purchase, wait too long and someone my purchase the competitors product or purchasing slows to a point that they aren't bringing in the revenue that is needed. It's a balance.

 

but that's all I'm going to say, this is kind of off topic and it is bed time for me lol. 

 

 

Good post and I understand, but it would be better for the consumer(what the argument is) to not "delay gratification" and bust out the better, faster cards for the same price. There are repercussions like you state, oc.