nas Home NAS Help

[BDunkz]

14 hours ago, Brayden9707 said:

Ok lets get some of the constraints.

 

What OS do what want to use? Would you be okay with a linux based OS?

How many drives would you be using?

3.5inch HDDs or 2.5inch HDDs?

Why the need for ECC memory? Will you be using a UPS?

Are you hoping to keep the machine on 24/7?

 

Any other requirements?

what would change if it would be running 24/7 also what would it take it get a ups

[Brayden9707]

Just now, BDunkz said:

what would change if it would be running 24/7 also what would it take it get a ups

Electricity costs but also if you are running a raid array, sudden shutdowns can cause a desync between the drives.

 

If i were you, I would look at using debian or linux mint, setting up mdadm (for raid), then setup owncloud for remote access. https://owncloud.org/

Using debian or linux mint will give you a local machine access and a file browser to copy files etc. Freenas does not do this.

[BDunkz]

1 minute ago, Brayden9707 said:

Electricity costs but also if you are running a raid array, sudden shutdowns can cause a desync between the drives.

 

If i were you, I would look at using debian or linux mint, setting up mdadm (for raid), then setup owncloud for remote access. https://owncloud.org/

Using debian or linux mint will give you a local machine access and a file browser to copy files etc. Freenas does not do this.

is it easy to ues?

also do recommend a raid aray? if so what one?
what os (noob)

[Brayden9707]

8 minutes ago, BDunkz said:

is it easy to ues?

also do recommend a raid aray? if so what one?
what os (noob)

If I were you, i would 100% download a linux mint iso, burn it to a usb, then boot it on a machine, have a good long play before attempting to set anything up. Maybe watch some youtube videos on it etc. Do some research about it all. 

 

I recommend a raid 1 array (mirror) if you are using 2 disks. If you are using 4 disks, I would use 2* raid 1 volumes. 

 

[BDunkz]

Just now, Brayden9707 said:

download a linux mint

a what who? (sorry I really have no idea)

 

[Brayden9707]

7 minutes ago, BDunkz said:

a what who? (sorry I really have no idea)

 

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

I strongly recommend you watch some videos on it first. If this scares you, freenas will be scarier. If it looks too much, buy a prebuilt nas.

Linux Mint is a free operating system built on top of Debian. 

[BDunkz]

Just now, Brayden9707 said:

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

I strongly recommend you watch some videos on it first. If this scares you, freenas will be scarier. If it looks too much, buy a prebuilt nas.

Linux Mint is a free operating system built on top of Debian. 

ok thankyou

[BDunkz]

5 minutes ago, Brayden9707 said:

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

I strongly recommend you watch some videos on it first. If this scares you, freenas will be scarier. If it looks too much, buy a prebuilt nas.

Linux Mint is a free operating system built on top of Debian. 

do you use linuxmint?

[BDunkz]

28 minutes ago, Brayden9707 said:

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

I strongly recommend you watch some videos on it first. If this scares you, freenas will be scarier. If it looks too much, buy a prebuilt nas.

Linux Mint is a free operating system built on top of Debian. 

ive just had a quick look on ty for linuxmint but I can find anything around a nas or file server that isn't in german I think ill just go with free nas unless you can link some veidos

after all I can always just reboot with another os

[Salacious B Crum]

24 minutes ago, BDunkz said:

do you use linuxmint?

You'll like linux mint it is very windows like and best of all its free!

[BDunkz]

48 minutes ago, mrbilky said:

You'll like linux mint it is very windows like and best of all its free!

Does it have plugins and User permissions?

[ProjectBox153]

1 hour ago, Brayden9707 said:

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

I strongly recommend you watch some videos on it first. If this scares you, freenas will be scarier. If it looks too much, buy a prebuilt nas.

Linux Mint is a free operating system built on top of Debian. 

Nothing about FreeNAS is scary if you have basic knowledge and time to look up what you're trying to do. For me that was figure out how to setup two plugins and two network shares, and boom, a fully functional, hand-built and configured storage server. 

[ProjectBox153]

49 minutes ago, mrbilky said:

You'll like linux mint it is very windows like and best of all its free!

How is it useful for a NAS setup though? You are leaning more towards desktop use. 

[ChalkChalkson]

You should check out this guide I wrote a while ago, it also includes a section on safe remote access.

As of the hardware: if you want to buy new check out this easily expandable 3TB NAS  I speced out for another thread.

If you have more specific questions, don't hesitate to ask!

[ChalkChalkson]

3 hours ago, BDunkz said:

also do recommend a raid aray? if so what one?
what os (noob)

RAID isn't that great if you want to have your system be easily expandable... Unraid has a great solution for this, it uses copy on write parity that is equivalent to RAID 5 or 6, but doesn't stripe the data, and drives can added at any time.

OS: I'd suggest unraid, or, if paying for a piece of software is not an option for some reason, FreeNAS is a great option, though I can't provide nearly as much help with FreeNAS, as I could with unraid  

[ChalkChalkson]

16 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

then get one 4TB WD black and one blue drives. Black for NAS and blue for backup.

Or buy 2X2TB black for RAID0 and one blue for backup. Back up drive doesnt need to be so expensive because it wont be used as much. I keep all my old drives and drives from busted laptops as backup.

Holy sh!t this is a weird setup!! 

I would never ever recommend RAID 0 on a NAS... a single drove easily saturates a home network, Black drives are way too expensive and not actually meant for NAS use....

Depending on the specific usecase Purple or Red are the ones suggested by WD and with good reason..

Blue I can understand because you can get them decently cheap often enough.,,,

And using a bunch of random drives for backup is a great idea!

[ChalkChalkson]

17 hours ago, BDunkz said:

I'm fine with any os you recommend however I was looking at freenas. (No idea if that's Linux) I'm uesing 3.5" hdd. no ups Maybe in the future. And probably most of the day but not 24/7 and ecc memory because I don't want to lose any family photos or important documents 

FreeNAS is linux

and no, you don't need ECC at all... Don't overspend that much! Rather invest in nice (Seagate IronWolf / WD Red) drives.

If you are worried about data loss, redundancy and/or backup are way more powerful than ECC memory. And ECC would force you into 2011-3 which is so costly you could probably afford to buy a dedicated backup server in addition to a simpler NAS instead.

[ChalkChalkson]

17 hours ago, domandric034 said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: MSI - B250I GAMING PRO AC Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($89.89 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport LT 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($62.49 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Case: Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case  ($84.90 @ OutletPC) 
Power Supply: Corsair - CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($49.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $762.23
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-09 06:12 EDT-0400

 

You don't need ECC memory for this kind of server. ECC memory use only mission critical servers and very very important workstations. Rock on that boiii FreeNAS or if you want Windows Server 2016 but throw in SSD and create RAID array in Storage Spaces.

You list is very reasonable, very similar to what I usually recommend (in fact it might be identical) aside from the PSU, I'd invest into a PSU with 6 SATA plugs, to make full use of the case.

 

With ECC I 100% agree, completely unnecessary in this case .

 

With the OSs I don't think Windows Server is a good solution here, since it is very expensive 

 

RAID is also a little unnecessary for home NAS systems, since single drives can saturate home networks, if possible COR redundancy is nicer  

 

[ChalkChalkson]

17 hours ago, BDunkz said:

Ok so use free nas

zfs

use the parts list

also a ups is a battery for your server right?

how much would it cost for one to run my rig and the nas

(core i5 6700k gigabyte gtx 970)

UPS is also overkill

I don't understand what you mean with "cost to run", but if you mean in terms of electricity it varies highly depending on where you live... It is free in parts of iceland and costs ~20-30ct/kWh (stupid unit) here.

If you mean how much performance you'd lose if you hosted a VM off of a NAS that runs your rig, or the other way around (check out this video) you'd basically need to buy a skylake or kayblake 1151 i7 and possibly a new mobo, if yours (for some reason) doesn't support vt-d and vt-x.

Though at that point switching to quad/hex core ryzen chip might be cheaper

[SCHISCHKA]

6 minutes ago, ChalkChalkson said:

Holy sh!t this is a weird setup!! 

I would never ever recommend RAID 0 on a NAS... a single drove easily saturates a home network, Black drives are way too expensive and not actually meant for NAS use....

Depending on the specific usecase Purple or Red are the ones suggested by WD and with good reason..

Blue I can understand because you can get them decently cheap often enough.,,,

And using a bunch of random drives for backup is a great idea!

You would not recommend it because you are looking at it the wrong way.

This is a home NAS not a fucking datacenter running a database or webserver that requires 100% 24/7 uninterrupted service.

Home NAS file IO does not have the same demands as a commercial service.

This is what redundant drives are, the server keeps running when a drive dies so you dont loose productivity.

Do you have a redundant PSU in your computer that has redundant drives?

Do you have a backup generator for your computer that has redundant drives?

no because you do not need 100% uptime, and you will get a power blackout or PSU fail before a drive fails.

Is anyone going to be urgently needing your NAS while you swap out a dead drive one time in the next 10 years?

You want this person to spend money on two NAS drives and you call a black drive expensive?

 

Do not confuse commercial/enterprise recommendations for home use. If you get a good quality drive with 5 year warranty for home use, I am telling you from experience you will fill that drive's capacity and need to upgrade for more storage before the drive dies. 

[SCHISCHKA]

21 minutes ago, ChalkChalkson said:

FreeNAS is linux

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS

[ChalkChalkson]

17 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS

My bad, it is freeBSD, which acts very similar in most cases though

[ChalkChalkson]

15 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

Do not confuse commercial/enterprise recommendations for home use. If you get a good quality drive with 5 year warranty for home use, I am telling you from experience you will fill that drive's capacity and need to upgrade for more storage before the drive dies. 

No, I don't.

Let me tell you a short story:

My family and I took a trip to afrika a few years ago and took a fck ton of photos, they used to be stored just on thier PC, but when I built a  NAS out of all the old drives from the PCs, the images migrated with them.

A few weeks ago one of the drives failed and my parents panicked, losing all photos from that trip would have been horrific for them, but luckly we had simple redundancy and I could save all of it.

If we had been running redundancy or even RAID 0 this would have meant the end of that data.

 

So in this fashion a redundant PSU is very different from a redundant drive. If you lose a PSU and have no redundancy you lose a few days of access, if you have a drive failure and no redundancy you get rolled back at least to the last backup and to nil in the worst case.

 

15 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

This is what redundant drives are, the server keeps running when a drive dies so you dont loose productivity.

No, not at all, redundant drives protect you from data loss

 

Besides, what is RAID 0 offering you? You can't use the extra performance, since your home network bottlenecks it anyway, especially with Blue/Black drives

[Jarsky]

Black drives are quite expensive in my country (theyre about 40% more than Red drives) - I see theyre about 30% more in the US as well - and being high performance 7200rpm drives they do suck a lot more power than the Red, Green or Purple drives which would be completely suitable for home use. My WD Red RAID5 saturates 10Gbit

 

Personally I would never recommend a RAID0 for anything other than OS and base application installs. Every disk you add to a RAID0 increases the risk of complete data loss by n%  and then restoring can be a pita. 

 

FreeNAS is *not* Linux, it is FreeBSD (both *nix based OS' but different kernels).

Something like Rockstor, is Linux - which is why it offers mdadm and btrfs.  

The OP should keep in mind that with FreeNAS - you cannot expand vdev's, limiting the expandability options for the zpool - if expansion is a requirement for future. 

 

Windows Server doesnt have to be expensive and theres of course Windows 10 - both with Storage Spaces and ReFS which are excellent. 

 

Linux Mint isn't a bad idea for a NAS, its still a linux 2.6 kernel so supports mdadm, btrfs, zfs, ext4, lvm, ntfs, etc.....

But given the experience of OP, it probably wouldnt be suitable though you can use something like Webmin to create basic software raids like with any NAS OS GUI but its much less feature rich - most commands should be done via CLI. 

 

 

[SCHISCHKA]

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

Besides, what is RAID 0 offering you? You can't use the extra performance, since your home network bottlenecks it anyway, especially with Blue/Black drives

I have tested single drive, two drive, and three drive raid0. single drive is ok but it slows down with small files. two drives is better, it gives you better random access and comes close to saturating gigabit. three drives really maxes out the network and does not have much more to offer over two drives. RAID0 also speeds up backups.

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

No, not at all, redundant drives protect you from data loss

 

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

So in this fashion a redundant PSU is very different from a redundant drive. If you lose a PSU and have no redundancy you lose a few days of access, if you have a drive failure and no redundancy you get rolled back at least to the last backup and to nil in the worst case.

That is not a proper backup/data-loss plan. two drives on snapshot rotation is better protection than raid.

 

if you had a proper backup solution you should be protected from:

1 lightning

2 power surge

3 physical theft

4 ransomware

5 accidental deletion

6 fire

7 drive failure

8 software bugs

 

RAID protects you from:

1 drive failure.

 

8:1 reasons to not waste your money implementing enterprise technology into the home.