PSU Tier List [OLD]

[Pr0peT]

Hello guys.

 

I would like to replace my 1050ti with something like 1070/ti or 2070. But I´m not sure what to do with my PSU. I have a cx450M (grey unit). I have it for about a year. It is recomended to use 550W PSU for 2070, but from what I seen the MSI model that I´m interested in draws about 185W and from my calculations my system would draw about 310W (could be wrong).

 

So my question is, lets say I dont OC anything, would it be safe to use the cx450M ? 

 

If not, something like EVGA 650 GQ should be a good replacement right ?

  

system :

r5 1600

b350 mobo

16GB Gskill ripjavsV 3200 mhz Ram (4x4)

1x SSD,1x M.2 SSD, 1x WD  7200rpm HDD

4x case fans

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

[seon123]

9 minutes ago, Pr0peT said:

It is recomended to use 550W PSU for 2070

Just ignore that. As a rule of thumb, for a mainstream platform system under a gaming load, take the GPU TDP + 70W. That will give you roughly what the whole system will draw from the PSU. 

The CX450M is fine. Might encounter coil whine, but that's just an annoyance. 

[Pr0peT]

2 hours ago, seon123 said:

Just ignore that. As a rule of thumb, for a mainstream platform system under a gaming load, take the GPU TDP + 70W. That will give you roughly what the whole system will draw from the PSU. 

The CX450M is fine. Might encounter coil whine, but that's just an annoyance. 

Thanks for the help.

[Biggerboot]

2 hours ago, seon123 said:

Just ignore that. As a rule of thumb, for a mainstream platform system under a gaming load, take the GPU TDP + 70W. That will give you roughly what the whole system will draw from the PSU. 

The CX450M is fine. Might encounter coil whine, but that's just an annoyance. 

37 minutes ago, Pr0peT said:

Thanks for the help.

 

I just want to re-emphasis (because I like to do that sometimes) that watts really don't matter for most builds these days - sometimes across the same platform it'll matter but not when comparing platforms.  You can calculate the theoretical limit of your cpu/gpu by the socket draw and pins on your gpu (75 watts from the board + 75 watts for every 6-pin or 150 for every 8-pin) - it's more conservative but I think it drives the point home even more.  Most rigs these days are barely pulling 300 even under worst case scenario, even with an i7 and 2080 ti you may hit 400 at peak.

 

Reputable reviews are your best source of knowing, and the warranty they provide can give you an idea of how much they stand behind the product.  If this thread didn't exist I'd go by that.

[Tech Wizard]

I noticed Sharkoon's WPM units are not in any of the tiers. Is there a reason for that? Can they possibly be that bad with an 80 plus bronze rating?

[Biggerboot]

30 minutes ago, Tech Wizard said:

I noticed Sharkoon's WPM units are not in any of the tiers. Is there a reason for that? Can they possibly be that bad with an 80 plus bronze rating?

While higher rated 80+ efficient PSUs tend to be better made and more stable than ones without it, it's not the rule or mutually inclusive.  These ratings can also be faked.

 

Google search gave me a Tomshardware post saying it's not really a good unit: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3033398/sharkoon-wpm-600-bronze.html

 

(And this was on an older list.  Wouldn't let it touch a newer system)

[Rexper]

9 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

Google search gave me a Tomshardware post saying it's not really a good unit: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3033398/sharkoon-wpm-600-bronze.html

Which means absolutely nothing.

The TomsHardware community knowledge on power supplies is simply pathetic.

I don't think a single person there even knows what group regulation means...

As you said, 

13 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

Reputable reviews are your best source of knowing,

The list there was garbage aswell.

 

https://www.computerbase.de/2014-08/sharkoon-wpm-v2-wpm-bronze-netzteil-test/#abschnitt_die_testkandidaten

 

Protections aren't tested, but not much is included looking at the IC. No OTP and not even OCP on minor rails. Electrical performance is low and it's rather loud.

13 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

the warranty they provide can give you an idea of how much they stand behind the product

It's just marketing. A longer warranty means a higher price. Even top quality power supplies are vulnerable to manufacturer errors, and consumer errors.

There are some really low quality PSUs with long warranty, vice versa.

 

9 hours ago, Tech Wizard said:

I noticed Sharkoon's WPM units are not in any of the tiers. Is there a reason for that?

Either OP hasn't heard of the units, doesn't believe they should take up space on the list, or doesn't know how to tier them.

 

Whats your budget, what's available to you, and what are your full system specs?

[Tech Wizard]

1 hour ago, Rexper said:

Whats your budget, what's available to you, and what are your full system specs?

Overclocked 4930K with an overclocked GTX 1080. Don't want to spend more than $100ish. Going for anything bronze up to gold. Was thinking of Corsair's RM650x, as I have an RM750x in another build and really satisfied with it.

[Stefan Payne]

12 hours ago, Tech Wizard said:

I noticed Sharkoon's WPM units are not in any of the tiers. Is there a reason for that?

 

Yes, because there is no reason to have it there.

And it might be the case that they changed the internals as well.

 

So why mention an unknoqn quality PSU at all that's not really reviewed?!

12 hours ago, Tech Wizard said:

Can they possibly be that bad with an 80 plus bronze rating?

Oh dear, why the heck do you believe that?!

The 80plus Rating only tells you that the PSU won't immediately explode when loaded and that they do reach and that's about it.

 

It doesn't test the PSU, it doesn't tell you anything about the voltage regulation, it doesn't tell you anything about Ripple/Noise...

 

So arguing with Quality because of 80plus rating is bullshit because its not what it is for and does.

Its for reducing appareant power. And that's about it....

[Biggerboot]

9 hours ago, Rexper said:

It's just marketing. A longer warranty means a higher price. Even top quality power supplies are vulnerable to manufacturer errors, and consumer errors.

There are some really low quality PSUs with long warranty, vice versa.

Sure, even that metric isn't 1:1 with a PSU's quality.  No single factor really is- not even the specs on paper or the product page.  You really need to research to optimize your decision.

 

But personally if I had to tell somebody who is limited on time/choices/etc to make a purchasing decision, I find it to be a more reliable metric than most to look for at least 5 years of backing from a reputable brand.  If the PSU did have a high rate of failure, they would have to fulfill those warranty at a pretty big loss.  It's still not optimal, but I think a better metric than most.

(Realistically I would refer them to this PSU list but just a hypothetical)

 

At least I find it's more reliable than telling somebody to find at least a bronze or gold rating- which I have seen larger tech channels make this kind of recommendation. 

 

9 hours ago, Rexper said:

The TomsHardware community knowledge on power supplies is simply pathetic.

I don't think a single person there even knows what group regulation means...

As you said, 

The list there was garbage aswell.

I have heard this before.  I think at the time it was better than having nothing but community tier lists and PSUs in general have higher standards now.  Don't mean to misinform anybody (the list doesn't really exist anymore).  But I think at least when it came to the PSUs at the bottom they were usually right.  They were more guilty of over rating than under rating.

[Rexper]

5 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

But personally if I had to tell somebody who is limited on time/choices/etc to make a purchasing decision, I find it to be a more reliable metric than most to look for at least 5 years of backing from a reputable brand.

Or you could just give them an educated recommend of the most suiting PSU, based on professional reviews.

Because again, there’s a lot of avoidable PSUs with 5+ year warranty. There’s a lot of good PSUs with only 3 year warranty.

Its as bad as choosing by efficiency rating.

5 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

community tier lists and PSUs in general have higher standards now. 

Anyone who makes a tier list for power supplies already has a misunderstanding.

You can’t group so many factors together without being super subjective.

And different people look for different things in a PSU as there’s a right tool for the right job. And no one knows why a particular PSU is in a certain tier. Readers don’t know what further research they need to take (eg. Noise, efficiency, cabling).

Tier lists for PSUs are still low standard, and continue to misinform and mislead people.

 

but atleast it’s a bit better than choosing by efficiency/warranty.

[komi1997]

5 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

Sure, even that metric isn't 1:1 with a PSU's quality.  No single factor really is- not even the specs on paper or the product page.  You really need to research to optimize your decision.

well if a unit is 80+ titanium rated there's roughly 100% of it being good

[Biggerboot]

33 minutes ago, Rexper said:

*snip*

Not disagreeing with you on most of your points.  As with any computer component in general it's best to research what you buy and listen to people who properly test these units.  It's just irl not everyone has access to the same choices.  Not everyone is going to be convinced by your suggestion alone (because seriously, power supply recommendations can be really subjective).  So I think having some fallback methods are ok, depending on the build and builder.

 

31 minutes ago, komi1997 said:

well if a unit is 80+ titanium rated there's roughly 100% of it being good

Haha, yeah it becomes harder to neglect certain things in a PSU that is hitting gold or better, but you can still get a bad value.  I know it's hyperbole though.  

[komi1997]

1 minute ago, Biggerboot said:

Haha, yeah it becomes harder to neglect certain things in a PSU that is hitting gold or better, but you can still get a bad value.  I know it's hyperbole though.  

 

Value yes, but prices are all over the place in different parts of the world, for instance in my country Pure Power 10 600w is half the price of Focus Plus Gold 550w, Cooler Master V series(not VSM) are same price as GM, Masterwatt Lite 700w(B2 rebrand?) is same price as Antec EA750G, lot of things like that, so value shouldn't be taken into consideration imo, because it varies a lot

[Biggerboot]

5 minutes ago, komi1997 said:

 

Value yes, but prices are all over the place in different parts of the world, for instance in my country Pure Power 10 600w is half the price of Focus Plus Gold 550w, Cooler Master V series(not VSM) are same price as GM, Masterwatt Lite 700w(B2 rebrand?) is same price as Antec EA750G, lot of things like that, so value shouldn't be taken into consideration imo, because it varies a lot

Absolutely.  I don't think the tier list takes value into consideration, which is good.  A lot of Corsair CXM recommendations though, are mostly value based ones (in my neck of the woods anyway).  

 

It's easy to fall back on and I forget that sometimes we gots people from all around the world here.

[Rexper]

33 minutes ago, Biggerboot said:

Not everyone is going to be convinced by your suggestion alone

If you were asking the community for a psu recommendation, and listed all your details, what’s available to you, what you’re interested in... would you rather a suggestion from someone who has absolutely no idea of your situation (the tier list), or from someone who spent time looking through your options and explaining their recommendation?

 

My problem is people giving half-ass recommendations to people that have described their details, like “choose this PSU because it’s the best OEM, Gold rated, tier 1!!”.

 

the “fallback methods” are really only practical for people who don’t want to ask a forum or can’t be bothered to research. 

If I had to purchase based on specs alone, I’d check if it’s using DC-DC, has a full set of protections listed, is atleast 40°C rated, and is compatible with my system.

 

1 hour ago, komi1997 said:

well if a unit is 80+ titanium rated there's roughly 100% of it being good

Mostly. But they can range from “good” to “best”. There are also those with low value. 

People who are looking at titanium PSUs to begin with probably won’t just settle for “good”.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

1 minute ago, Rexper said:

If you were asking the community for a psu recommendation, and listed all your details, what’s available to you, what you’re interested in... would you rather a suggestion from someone who has absolutely no idea of your situation (the tier list), or from someone who spent time looking through your options and explaining their recommendation?

 

My problem is people giving half-ass recommendations to people that have described their details, like “choose this PSU because it’s the best OEM, Gold rated, tier 1!!”.

 

the “fallback methods” are really only practical for people who don’t want to ask a forum or can’t be bothered to research. 

If I had to purchase based on specs alone, I’d check if it’s using DC-DC, has a full set of protections listed, is atleast 40°C rated, and is compatible with my system.

 

Mostly. But they can range from “good” to “best”. There are also those with low value. 

People who are looking at titanium PSUs to begin with probably won’t just settle for “good”.

Generally, however, a V550 will be a better PSU for your system than a CX550M. This is why the tier list exists.

[komi1997]

Anyone knows how good would Dark Power Pro 9 be by today's standards? friend of mine wants to OC hi 3930k, he got RoG motherboard but have pretty bad PSU atm so i told him not to OC it on that one just to be safe cuz 3930k can pull a lot of power

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

2 minutes ago, komi1997 said:

Anyone knows how good would Dark Power Pro 9 be by today's standards? friend of mine wants to OC hi 3930k, he got RoG motherboard but have pretty bad PSU atm so i told him not to OC it on that one just to be safe cuz 3930k can pull a lot of power

Weirdly I can't find any information on it

[komi1997]

5 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

Weirdly I can't find any information on it

Model: BQT P9-850W

that's what it says on PSU, it's 80+ gold rated

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

1 minute ago, komi1997 said:

Model: BQT P9-850W

that's what it says on PSU, it's 80+ gold rated

There seem to be no reviews, but it probably isn't a fire hazard. Go ahead

[Biggerboot]

21 minutes ago, Rexper said:

*snip*

Yeah, if somebody looks like they attempted research and have educated questions its more likely they'll find good help.  But at the very least having other methods and resources (tier list) will ensure they get something safe.

 

I don't even know if fallback was the right word for me to use.  Things like warranty and efficiency are useful but not mutually inclusive with quality.  But at least I would consider warranty something... tangible (or intangible)?  Adds value regardless of the product itself?  I totally understand if you don't agree with that, because we want to get the right part regardless.

 

Even listing protections is sometimes suspect and be found lacking or poorly implemented during a review.

[Rexper]

39 minutes ago, komi1997 said:

Anyone knows how good would Dark Power Pro 9 be by today's standards? friend of mine wants to OC hi 3930k, he got RoG motherboard but have pretty bad PSU atm so i told him not to OC it on that one just to be safe cuz 3930k can pull a lot of power

It's not too bad. LLC Resonant and DC-DC.

Ripple isnt very good in todays terms - 65ish on the 12v rails and ~40 on minor. Voltage regulation is poor, 430mV on the 12V rail (some group regulated PSU are even better there), noise is okay.

Thats all the information I found

https://www.gamezoom.net/artikel/be_quiet_Dark_Power_Pro_P9_750W_Netzteil_Test_Review-21807-8

https://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/be-quiet-dark-power-pro-bqt-p9-550w-review-80-plus-gold/5/

 

But it's an 8 year old design. Does your friend already have this PSU?

[Rexper]

8 hours ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

Generally, however, a V550 will be a better PSU for your system than a CX550M. This is why the tier list exists.

No. The V550 for me cost twice as much as the CX550M. And the benefits it brings for my system in unnecessary. I'm not liking the 71A inrush current either...

 

[Stefan Payne]

13 hours ago, komi1997 said:

Value yes, but prices are all over the place in different parts of the world, for instance in my country Pure Power 10 600w is half the price of Focus Plus Gold 550w, Cooler Master V series(not VSM) are same price as GM, Masterwatt Lite 700w(B2 rebrand?) is same price as Antec EA750G, lot of things like that, so value shouldn't be taken into consideration imo, because it varies a lot

Yes and the  Price/Value Category would fix that because it doesn't care about the price in your region, it tells you wich one to prefer if it is cheaper or you want something better.