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The Spark

GTX 1080s, are people kidding themselves?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

The GTX 980 ti was very early spotted as an excellent overclocker with proper cooling, some of the aftermarket cards overclocked extremely well when provided with the right care.

 

The GTX 1080 is overclocked almost to the max already when shipped by manufacturers, the average overclock will max at around 2050 mhz and the lucky ones may get it just beyond 2100 mhz, the highest I personally have seen is my neighbours FE edition with 2110 mhz and he is happy to have won the lottery. Mine reaches 2050 and wont go any further in spite of heat not being an issue.

 

I am seeing some very fancy solutions coming out for the GTX 1080 which includes awesome water cooling but that has to for the noise right? I have seen a lot of testing and reviews of this card and they all stop at 2000-2100 mhz unless they have been modded heavily (home made), with an unlocked bios there may be an extra 100 mhz in storage. Overall however the 1080 unlike the 980ti just doesn´t show the same improvement when overclocked.

 

My MSI 1080 gaming X is extremely silent even when under heavy load, it just wont get much better than that and due to the locked bios the extra 6 pin power connector is just there for the kicks, I guess a hacked bios might change things if I am willing to scrap the warranty on the card but with my card stopping already at 2050 I will never take that bet.

 

Are people cheating themselves when paying absurd amounts for cards which will deliver nothing more than the cards available today offer?

 

With the 980 ti I could really understand water cooling and overall improved additions to the card, as for 1080 ... it just seems rather pointless.

 

 

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Yes, but making rational arguments gets you labeled a fanboy. I've never said the 1080 and 1070 were bad cards. They're actually amazing cards. Node shrink allowed Nvidia to fit 601mm2 performance into 314mm2. I've only said they don't cost what Nvidia is charging for them. 314mm2 chips do not cost what Nvidia is charging for them.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
17 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

Yes, but making rational arguments gets you labeled a fanboy. I've never said the 1080 and 1070 were bad cards. They're actually amazing cards. Node shrink allowed Nvidia to fit 601mm2 performance into 314mm2. I've only said they don't cost what Nvidia is charging for them. 314mm2 chips do not cost what Nvidia is charging for them.

 

This post is not so much about pricing as it is about potential overclocking and manufacturers profiting on an illusion. The 1080 is an excellent card but its not an overclocking enthusiasts dream.

 

The best 980 ti overclocks beat the 1080 hands down. In theory Nvidia could have made a 2nd "Maxwell" with a marginally larger chip to avoid temperature issues and pushed those mhz way beyond what has been done thus far reaching 1.3x the speed of the 1080. It would of course have needed better dx 12 instructions as well but its all theory. The 980 ti was just hands down much better for enthusiast overclockers, that was my point.

 

I just dont see the practical need for any of the "extreme" gtx 1080 releases out there, there must be people buying them however.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The Spark said:

 

This post is not so much about pricing as it is about potential overclocking and manufacturers profiting on an illusion. The 1080 is an excellent card but its not an overclocking enthusiasts dream.

 

The best 980 ti overclocks beat the 1080 hands down. In theory Nvidia could have made a 2nd "Maxwell" with a marginally larger chip to avoid temperature issues and pushed those mhz way beyond what has been done thus far reaching 1.3x the speed of the 1080. It would of course have needed better dx 12 instructions as well but its all theory. The 980 ti was just hands down much better for enthusiast overclockers, that was my point.

 

I just dont see the practical need for any of the "extreme" gtx 1080 releases out there, there must be people buying them however.

 

 

My bad since I have this habit of writing incomplete thoughts (INTP personality), but I was alluding to the part I bolded. Marketing is wonderful isn't it? People still think there's a gigahertz war going on and are buying cards that promise large numbers and not looking at whether the performance increase that comes with those numbers make sense for the increased amounts manufacturers are charging for those models.


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The 1080 smokes a 980ti, by a large margin. The disparity in performance depends on the game but the 1080 is a true upgrade over the 980ti. If someone 6 months ago bitched about only overclocking to 2GHz they would have been laughed off of this forum xD you kids crack me up.


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I'm informed that the difference emerges under extreme overclocking under LN2. The voltage limit, in other words.

 

Under air, the 1080 is admittedly only a fair overclocker, but it manages to maintain a lead over the 980Ti for the most part. Meanwhile it is cooler and consumes less power.

 

Bottom line, it's unrealistic to expect the 1080 to be leagues ahead of the 980Ti; the replacement of that card will be the 1080Ti, which hasn't been released yet.

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2 minutes ago, SSL said:

I'm informed that the difference emerges under extreme overclocking under LN2. The voltage limit, in other words.

 

Under air, the 1080 is admittedly only a fair overclocker, but it manages to maintain a lead over the 980Ti for the most part. Meanwhile it is cooler and consumes less power.

 

Bottom line, it's unrealistic to expect the 1080 to be leagues ahead of the 980Ti; the replacement of that card will be the 1080Ti, which hasn't been released yet.

 

 

Look at gameplay though, anytime you take both the 980ti and 1080 to their respective known overclocks the 1080 crushes the 980ti. What happens is people look at their custom 980ti overclocked to the edge of stability and compare it to a FE thermal limiting. Check out the fps the ZOTAC AMPED EXTREME gets, makes the 980ti look like a 960. People are attacking the 1080 because they can't afford it, not because it can't perform.


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5 minutes ago, Tech Inquisition said:

As a point in case, both companies' new nodes disappoint me in terms of OC capabilities...

How? The reference clock speed of my 980ti is 1000MHz, the best I can get is 1500MHz and that's not stable in all games. The 1080 is pretty reliable to 2.1GHz, what's its base clock again? 

 

People are saying it doesn't overclock well because the new boost system does a better job, there is less for the consumer to do. That's not a bad thing.


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1 minute ago, App4that said:

How? The reference clock speed of my 989ti is 1000MHz, the best I can get is 1500MHz and that's not stable in all games. The 1080 is pretty reliable to 2.1GHz, what's its base clock again? 

 

People are saying it doesn't overclock well because the new boost system does a better job, there is less for the consumer to do. That's not a bad thing.

 

That's true. Haven't seen GPU boost 3.0 mentioned much, but that and the better thermals allow higher boost clocks at stock.

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4 minutes ago, App4that said:

How? The reference clock speed of my 980ti is 1000MHz, the best I can get is 1500MHz and that's not stable in all games. The 1080 is pretty reliable to 2.1GHz, what's its base clock again? 

 

People are saying it doesn't overclock well because the new boost system does a better job, there is less for the consumer to do. That's not a bad thing.

Agreed, that... it's taken all the fun and "I got a lot" more out of the whole OC experience... guess progress has a cost... ;)


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1 minute ago, SSL said:

 

That's true. Haven't seen GPU boost 3.0 mentioned much, but that and the better thermals allow higher boost clocks at stock.

The HOF boosts to over 2GHz on its own lol. Pascal overclocks like crazy. My buddy with a 1080 FE runs his over 2GHz. Still makes me giggle just typing it lol. 

 

The 1080ti will be to 1440 as the 980ti was to 1080, total overkill. Why I'm getting a 1080 HOF or AMP extreme


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3 minutes ago, Tech Inquisition said:

Agreed, that... it's taken all the fun and "I got a lot" more out of the whole OC experience... guess progress has a cost... ;)

It does kind of suck but I've run into people with 970s that have used them at stock boost for over a year. I can see why Nvidia is doing it. The better boost works the better the experience of the average player. 


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I can see GTX 1080 card for 600$.

How much did GTX 980 Ti cost at launch?

 

For 600$ price, I think GTX 1080 is performing great.

 


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Please folks, this was not a post meant to trash the 1080, I own one as I stated and I am very happy with it. My main reason for this post is because I fail to understand the new 1080´s on the market with water cooling and whatnot, its not really going to make a difference like it did with the 980ti. I even fail to see then need for the extra 6 pin power connector on my 1080 but it is an excellent card and I wouldnt trade it for anything right now. I know the cards released on the market are already almost already pushed to the limit ... as I also stated ...

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2 minutes ago, The Spark said:

Please folks, this was not a post meant to trash the 1080, I own one as I stated and I am very happy with it. My main reason for this post is because I fail to understand the new 1080´s on the market with water cooling and whatnot, its not really going to make a difference like it did with the 980ti. I even fail to see then need for the extra 6 pin power connector on my 1080 but it is an excellent card and I wouldnt trade it for anything right now. I know the cards released on the market are already almost already pushed to the limit ... as I also stated ...

Well even if it's bad for overclocking, people will still buy it.

Why? Well it's more quiet on water cooling, and beter temps overall.

On air cooling, frequency on GPU core was jumping from 1950 to 2100MHz on my card even when I had fan at 80% speed and temps under 80°C at all times.

On water cooling it's stable 2101MHz and it won't move from that. So I guess you gain more stable clock, probbably because on water cooling you get GPU under 50°C at all times.

I did get water cooling just to eliminate as much noise as possible. So I did it for silence ... and I'm sure that I'm not the only one willing to spend 600$ on custom water loop, just to have everything almost dead silent.


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6 minutes ago, The Spark said:

Please folks, this was not a post meant to trash the 1080, I own one as I stated and I am very happy with it. My main reason for this post is because I fail to understand the new 1080´s on the market with water cooling and whatnot, its not really going to make a difference like it did with the 980ti. I even fail to see then need for the extra 6 pin power connector on my 1080 but it is an excellent card and I wouldnt trade it for anything right now. I know the cards released on the market are already almost already pushed to the limit ... as I also stated ...

So you don't check out the benchmarks as they hit because the new 1080s kill it. And as a Hybrid owner I'll tell you the point of a Hybid is not max overclocking but lower operating temps. I could have got a Lightning for what I paid for my Hybrid and the Lightning would have overclocked better, but the Hybrid never goes over the low 50s C.


If anyone asks you never saw me.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Simon771 said:

Well even if it's bad for overclocking, people will still buy it.

Why? Well it's more quiet on water cooling, and beter temps overall.

On air cooling, frequency on GPU core was jumping from 1950 to 2100MHz on my card even when I had fan at 80% speed and temps under 80°C at all times.

On water cooling it's stable 2101MHz and it won't move from that. So I guess you gain more stable clock, probbably because on water cooling you get GPU under 50°C at all times.

I did get water cooling just to eliminate as much noise as possible. So I did it for silence ... and I'm sure that I'm not the only one willing to spend 600$ on custom water loop, just to have everything almost dead silent.

 

Thats pretty much what I stated in my original post, the overclocking on water cooling is at best meager compared to air, the only reason would be noise levels. I just didn´t think people would spend an extra 300 dollars for a silent card on top of the 900 dollars already spent, thats what they cost here in Denmark .. but I was wrong :)

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2 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Yes, but making rational arguments gets you labeled a fanboy. I've never said the 1080 and 1070 were bad cards. They're actually amazing cards. Node shrink allowed Nvidia to fit 601mm2 performance into 314mm2. I've only said they don't cost what Nvidia is charging for them. 314mm2 chips do not cost what Nvidia is charging for them.

They should cost a shit load less due to the saving on silicon. But I can understand why they have their current price. AMD just doesn't have anything to compete with the GTX 1080, and pricing it lower would undercut all of the 900 series that are still in stock.


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2 minutes ago, The Spark said:

 

Thats pretty much what I stated in my original post, the overclocking on water cooling is at best meager compared to air, the only reason would be noise levels. I just didn´t think people would spend an extra 300 dollars for a silent card on top of the 900 dollars already spent, thats what they cost here in Denmark .. but I was wrong :)

I paid 730us for my Hybrid 980ti 8 months ago. I consider it money well spent. Still going to upgrade to the 1080 though. But this time I'm probably going air as I want the better power delivery for better overclocking. 


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The 1080 was not meant to be an upgrade from the 980 Ti.

Upgrading from a 980 Ti to a 1080 is adding to supply issues pushing up the prices of the 1080 and pushing down the prices of the 980 Ti without gaining any real value.

 

(I am just bitter as my pre-ordered 1080 still hasn't arrived in the country due to the supply issues.)

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7 minutes ago, The Spark said:

 

Thats pretty much what I stated in my original post, the overclocking on water cooling is at best meager compared to air, the only reason would be noise levels. I just didn´t think people would spend an extra 300 dollars for a silent card on top of the 900 dollars already spent, thats what they cost here in Denmark .. but I was wrong :)

300$ ?

Well it depends how you look at it.

Someone who already have water loop, will only spend additional 100€ for waterblock.

If he paid 600-700€ for GPU, he will spend that additional 100€ and have it water cooled :)

 

I don't see where you found that you need to pay extra 300$ for water cooling it.

Unless person doesn't have anything for water cooling loop. But in this case you spend more like 500-600€.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, App4that said:

I paid 730us for my Hybrid 980ti 8 months ago. I consider it money well spent. Still going to upgrade to the 1080 though. But this time I'm probably going air as I want the better power delivery for better overclocking. 

I am hitting max 67 celsius on heavy load in gaming with 2030 mhz, so you have plenty of room for overclocking if you win the lottery .... :) ... I have the MSI gaming X version.

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#~2.1GHZgate  :P

 

Fun to see when people justifying their extra $100(in Msia) purchase on 1070 Strix with "better memory overclock" compare to 1070 Jetstream.

Similar thermal, similar performance, similar warranty period.

Now AIB releasing "higher" factory overclock 1070/1080 with higher price just to milk the shit of their customer.


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1080ti. I can't stand a cool running card that doesn't challenge me to tame its max load temps. 

 

Though. I'll probably only get the 1080ti with slashed price. I still value p/p. 


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