"Gender Equalty" Rating on Games in Sweden

[pixeldensity]

I'm sorry but that is so stupid and a waste of money. Ratings are suppose to tell the consumer what age level is appropriate to play the game, much like ratings on movies, even though people ignore the rating already. Don't get me wrong I'm all for gender equality but this sound so stupid and a waste of money

[Guest]

Ohh.. I see but I don't think that is gender inequality, maybe it will take more resources to develop a male or a female character, I actually think it doesn't matter if the game has no male or female character when it doesn't benefit the game from having them, I see it like this doesn't have a benefit in the gameplay/story don't implement it and put your resources in something that will benefit the game.

You're right it wouldn't make sense to go back to add or change characters in something that has already been published and distributed. Too much money and waste of resources. But for future games? Why not? Lets say you're a game developer and you need to make six characters, and it doesn't matter what sex they are. Why not make some of them men, some women, some black, some white, etc. I can't imagine it takes any more resources to make on over the other.

[Cookybiscuit]

You're right it wouldn't make sense to go back to add or change characters in something that has already been published and distributed. Too much money and waste of resources. But for future games? Why not? Lets say you're a game developer and you need to make six characters, and it doesn't matter what sex they are. Why not make some of them men, some women, some black, some white, etc. I can't imagine it takes any more resources to make on over the other.

I think you're missing the point entirely. Why do we need to fill out quotas? Why can't we just have characters based on who the writers think will be good rather than "Woops we forgot to add a black guy"?

[Guest]

I think you're missing the point entirely. Why do we need to fill out quotas? Why can't we just have characters based on who the writers think will be good rather than "Woops we forgot to add a black guy"?

I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that if it doesn't matter to the story at all, why not add diversity in your story? It surely wouldn't hurt anything. I never said anything about a quota. And not to mention, a character is not defined by gender or race, rather, they are defined by their past life and their drive towards a goal. That's what makes a good character. Now, if their drive or their past is defined by their race or gender, then all of a sudden that character has to be that race or gender. 12 Years a Slave wouldn't have worked if the main character was white, but a character like say Peter Parker, Luke Skywalker, or Jules Winnfield would have all worked regardless of race. Those are just three totally random characters, by the way. I didn't pick them for any reason beyond the fact that their race doesn't matter. As a writer and award winning filmmaker, I can say that changing the race or even the gender of a character isn't that big of a deal, especially in the early stages of drafting the story. Infact, in the short film I'm working on now, my main character, Greta, is a white woman, but there is no reason she couldn't be a black woman. She does, however, need to be a woman in the story. Who knows, maybe I'll switch her to be black or Asian in my next draft of the screen play.

[Cookybiscuit]

why not add diversity in your story?

How about having a realistic setting and characters instead of trying to push some retarded multicultural agenda?

[Guest]

How about having a realistic setting and characters instead of trying to push some retarded multicultural agenda?

Yeah. Realistic. Diversity is realistic. Women exist and do amazing things. Men exist and do amazing thing. No reason to exclude one over the other. Something that makes a character good is that character is relatable to the audience. The truth is, women tend to relate better to women and men tend to relate better to men. It's just the way it is. Adding diversity makes a story both more realistic, and relatable to a wider audience of people. And yes, setting is important too. But we're not talking about setting, we are talking about diversity.

[cesrai]

You're right it wouldn't make sense to go back to add or change characters in something that has already been published and distributed. Too much money and waste of resources. But for future games? Why not? Lets say you're a game developer and you need to make six characters, and it doesn't matter what sex they are. Why not make some of them men, some women, some black, some white, etc. I can't imagine it takes any more resources to make on over the other.

I think you missed my point, lets say you need three characters and the gender won't effect the gameplay/story I would look at what option would be easier to design and make the animations... for if a male character was easier and need less resources I would go with the male the female one wouldn't be a good choose and this also can be applied to white/black, also I think it doesn't matter.

[Guest]

I think you missed my point, lets say you need three characters and the gender won't effect the gameplay/story I would look at what option would be easier to design and make the animations... for if a male character was easier and need less resources I would go with the male the female one wouldn't be a good choose and this also can be applied to white/black, also I think it doesn't matter.

Ahh... yes I misunderstood. I could see this being a very valid argument for maybe an indie game dev that only has almost no resources, and, yes. that is a very different situation indeed, and one, that I'll totally admit to not thinking of. You raise a great point. But larger game studios are going to be designing multiple characters that all look different anyway. Take Left 4 Dead 2 for instance. All the characters are different sizes, builds, etc. They will have to design these all indepently of each other. It would not be any cheaper to design a male vs a female upfront. At least to my knowledge. I'll admit I don't know much of anything about game developing. I know a little about designing 3D objects, but that's pretty different.

 

As for it mattering or not. I say it does matter as females tend to connect better with female characters and males tend to connect better with male character. Having both just makes the game more relatable to more people. However, if you disagree, then that's totally fine. Really. And I don't think there is anything else to be said here.

[cesrai]

Ahh... yes I misunderstood. I could see this being a very valid argument for maybe an indie game dev that only has almost no resources, and, yes. that is a very different situation indeed, and one, that I'll totally admit to not thinking of. You raise a great point. But larger game studios are going to be designing multiple characters that all look different anyway. Take Left 4 Dead 2 for instance. All the characters are different sizes, builds, etc. They will have to design these all indepently of each other. It would not be any cheaper to design a male vs a female upfront. At least to my knowledge. I'll admit I don't know much of anything about game developing. I know a little about designing 3D objects, but that's pretty different.

 

As for it mattering or not. I say it does matter as females tend to connect better with female characters and males tend to connect better with male character. Having both just makes the game more relatable to more people. However, if you disagree, then that's totally fine. Really. And I don't think there is anything else to be said here.

This is why I think it doesn't matter, a person who thinks males are superior than females isn't going to base his believe on a game or the other way around and the same apply for the race, do you actually think that a person playing a game will be like you know the *insert character name* is amazing I think it's gender/race is superior to others, but yeah connecting with the character would be a great point and valid point, also you may be a big studio and have the resources but putting them somewhere else would be better.

[Guest]

This is why I think it doesn't matter, a person who thinks males are superior than females isn't going to base his believe on a game or the other way around and the same apply for the race, do you actually think that a person playing a game will be like you know the *insert character name* is amazing I think it's gender/race is superior to others, but yeah connecting with the character would be a great point and valid point, also you may be a big studio and have the resources but putting them somewhere else would be better.

I don't think anyone would base their beliefs on a game alone, but every bit counts. The media is a powerful thing and it influences everyone. And not just games. Games, movies, TV, the internet, etc all shape us. Sure, maybe one game alone wouldn't have the power to change someones beliefs, but many games, movies, etc can have a lot of power over people. In terms of resources, I think that the amount of resources that go into making one character type over another is so small, that when you are talking about a game with millions and millions of dollars behind it, the amount of resources negligible. But with a small indie game, is a very valid argument. But once again, I'm not a game developer, so I can't be sure.

 

Anyway. I think there isn't much more to be said here, so I'm peacin' out!

 

 

 

By the way, happy 1000th post!

[d3sl91]

-stuff-

 

So, another rating I can ignore?

 

Seriously, I ignore every rating on every form of media. I don't need some organization to tell me what is suitable for me or my future kids. That's for me to decide. Plenty of M rated games I would have no problem playing with my son. Same as there are some PG-13 movies I would never let my kids see, and wouldn't watch myself (either because of "bad" content - or just utter crap movie).

[cesrai]

I don't think anyone would base their beliefs on a game alone, but every bit counts. The media is a powerful thing and it influences everyone. And not just games. Games, movies, TV, the internet, etc all shape us. Sure, maybe one game alone wouldn't have the power to change someones beliefs, but many games, movies, etc can have a lot of power over people. In terms of resources, I think that the amount of resources that go into making one character type over another is so small, that when you are talking about a game with millions and millions of dollars behind it, the amount of resources negligible. But with a small indie game, is a very valid argument. But once again, I'm not a game developer, so I can't be sure.

 

Anyway. I think there isn't much more to be said here, so I'm peacin' out!

 

 

 

By the way, happy 1000th post!

Thanks.

[Stefan Becker]

Why is it, that literally every politician in the world is so focused on being so fucking politically correct? Like, holy fuck, we actually have bigger problems than that!

[d3sl91]

Why is it, that literally every politician in the world is so focused on being so fucking politically correct? Like, holy fuck, we actually have bigger problems than that!

Politicians: Personal Gain, Personal Wealth, Fame > Common Sense, Real Leadership, Standing for what you believe in. Cater to the loudest voices, biggest wallets, or "best PR opportunities" than just getting stuff done that needs to be done.

[Silent_Xaxal]

 

There are waaaay too many threads about Assassin's Creed: Unity right now so how about something else?

 

Sexism and gender equality in gaming is a big thing these days. So big that the Swedish government is now investing 272,000 SEK (36,672 USD) into labeling games as promoting gender equality. This project was inspired by the Bechdel test.

The project is far from finished though. Right now it is not even decided if the labels will be put on all games developed in Sweden or if developers will have to contact the authority, get their game tested and then be assigned a label.

When asked if Anton Albiin thought focusing on diversity could harm creativity he responded:

 

When the project is done (couldn't find any dates) we here in Sweden might see stickers on games saying "promotes gender equality" on games that promotes female characters. Similar to how you today can see ratings telling you if a game contains violence.

 

Source: The Local

 

 

My thoughts:

I really really hope that it's based on the Bechdel test because that test is so ridiculously flawed and broken we would get some hilarious ratings. For example the game "Senran Kagura Burst" (a game where high school girls fight each other and have their clothes ripped off) would pass, but Minecraft would not.

 

Games which are truly gender neutral will probably not end up not passing this test since they are not promoting female characters. Games like Goat Simulator which is as gender neutral as it gets (in terms of protagonists) would end up not getting the label because it is gender neutral and this project is about promoting women.

This is why I am so against anything that is related to a specific gender. You can't say you fight for equality and then create a label specifically to promote one gender. Treating the genders differently (with things like this new rating) only creates more inequality, not less.

 

This might also become a slippery slope. If one group see special treatment then other groups might want it as well. If women get a special label why shouldn't different races get a special label? How about a label that promotes Asian people? Maybe one that promotes homosexual people? I don't see anything good coming out of this.

 

It's not a huge amount of money to invest for the government, but I am still kind of pissed that over 36,000 dollars of taxpayer money is being spent on this since I don't think it will lead to anything. Might as well have flushed the money down the toilet.

 

The fact that it does already have innate bias, the fact that this does sound like a feeble attempt by the current administration to rally support against the groundswell of Sweden Democrat support, and the fact that it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that is enforceable (Or at least, the ones who want to enforce it lack any spine), shows this as an exercise in pointless that can simply be more problematic, and only furthering the current direction that Sweden is currently headed.

[TAK]

.

[ematan]

I sure hope that this'll never go through. However if it does, I'd like to see that games meant for females are examined with the same criticism. I remember a certain barbie game where all playable characters are female and there was no interaction with any males or then it was just that one Ken/Prince dude. Not to mention almost any Disney Princess game. Shouldn't those game be marked as sexist as well?

[Commander Llama]

But the Bechdel test isn't even much of a test.  It was just a joke!  Hardly a thing to base a rating system on, at least without much further development (maybe that's what the intern making the 36K is for?).  If I had to add suggestions to such a cause, games that let the gamer play as female character should get big pluses.  As should high character customization options in general, as these are highly inclusive on their own right.

 

Well, there's no real reason to be against this.  Why not?

[LAwLz]

I sure hope that this'll never go through. However if it does, I'd like to see that games meant for females are examined with the same criticism. I remember a certain barbie game where all playable characters are female and there was no interaction with any males or then it was just that one Ken/Prince dude. Not to mention almost any Disney Princess game. Shouldn't those game be marked as sexist as well?

No actually, if the test is based on the Bechdel test then the Barbie game might pass, but things like Farmville and Candy Crush Saga will not pass.

The Bechdel test is quite literally "two female characters talk to each other about something other than a man". That is the entire test. If the main villain is a man, and all the dialog in the game is about how evil he is, then he doesn't matter if you play as 5 different and well written female role models.

If you have a Barbie game where you play as Barbie and talk to your female friend about let's say shoes, then it will pass.

 

It's a very ridged test and it's not up for interpretation if something passes or not, which is good. The test itself is pure garbage though.

I doubt that it will be the only criteria for the label. If it is then the labeling will do more harm than good (again, games like Senran Kagura Burst will pass but Minecraft won't). If it's not based on that then I fear the test will be extremely subjective.

We might end up with someone like Anita who misinterpret the message of games like Zelda. Hell, with Anita's criteria you can pretty much call any game sexist. Even her own game concept is extremely sexist according to her own thesis (see the first ~6 minutes of this video).

[Misanthrope]

Legislating niceness and inclusiveness....Yeah that would work  :rolleyes:

[Cookybiscuit]

Yeah. Realistic. Diversity is realistic. Women exist and do amazing things. Men exist and do amazing thing. No reason to exclude one over the other. Something that makes a character good is that character is relatable to the audience. The truth is, women tend to relate better to women and men tend to relate better to men. It's just the way it is. Adding diversity makes a story both more realistic, and relatable to a wider audience of people. And yes, setting is important too. But we're not talking about setting, we are talking about diversity.

Ok you win, I'm going to contact Spielberg and ask him to do a reshoot of Saving Private Ryan where half the soldiers are women as it would make the characters much more diverse and relatable.

[Briggsy]

The only thing this rating system might promote is parents interpreting what games are gender/age appropriate for their children, like how a toy might say [girls age 5+] or [boys age 12+]. With this rating system, video games would end up working the same way, with the gender-rating being ignored by everyone but parents buying a game for their young boy/girl. 

[eshbop]

This is like rating a game with a numerical score, it does more harm than good. Creates controversy that isn't needed. A games worth can't be determined unless you play it/read a few reviews.

 

Focus on creating interesting characters, suited to their role, in their game and diversity should be inherent. Diversity is lacking because most games use 'safe' characters, catered to the majority & social 'norms' or it takes a backseat to other aspects like gameplay or graphics.

[d3sl91]

My white, male, aged 18-35 opinion probably isn't worth much here, but can't we focus on creating interesting characters that make sense in their role, in their game. 

 

I think a lack of diversity comes from the relative ease of writing a 'safe' character, catering to the majority, social 'norms' & laziness. 

It's silly.

 

All this will do is hurt Sweden. a AAA developer here in the US doesnt care what sweden thinks, or care about a swedish rating. So they will make the game however they like.

 

But now, sweden requires that they be rated in sweden. So AAA developers will just be like "screw you" and sweden wont get any of the AAA games. So, this will hurt sweden based re-sellers (digital or otherwise). At the very least, uninformed parents will see that all of a sudden 95% of games get an "xxx" rating because the main character is a male.... but all they see is the "bad" rating. More drops in sales and hurting the economy.

 

This will then encourage the video game black market and piracy. 

 

All because someone can't just live with making a decision for their own life, and let others live their lives. Like @Trik'Stari said, you will offend others, and you will be offended. Don't cram your ideals down my throat, and I won't cram my ideals down yours. 

 

Yes, I am exaggerating, but the point is... this is utterly stupid. 

Swedish american guy, out. ::drops mic::

[LAwLz]

-snip-

I just need to clarify something. This is not some mandatory rating for all games in Sweden. They have not decided how to do it yet, but the plans right now is to either have all games produced in Sweden to be tested and possibly labeled, or it might end up being a voluntary thing. If it ends up being voluntary then some developers will go "having this logo on it might increase our sales, and we think we will pass the test so let's submit it!".

 

The only harm I can see this doing is to waste the tax payers money. It won't lead to more piracy or anything like that.