GOG.com pulls a massive pro-consumer move with updated refund policy

Kisai · March 4, 2020

7 minutes ago, Mihle said:

You have the subscription mind on something that is not, that does not work, also, it's very good you aren't the boss of GOG, if you where, there would be much much less customers than the quite few overall they already have. (Compared to steam)

Firstly, some of the things you say would break the law in EU/Australia if I take it word for word. Secondly, to do it, the only option would be to not have it be DRM free. GOG does have achievements and time tracking, but if it was required from the user, it also can't be DRM free, it's impossible.

And DRM free is one of the two main points GOG have had over other stores before, and the only one for games that aren't old, GOG would most likely have less customers if it even still existed without that

(Now it have more than those two main points they have had tho, for example this refund system and GOG galaxy 2.0 for example, but those are newer things)

It would not break any law. You are connecting to "my service" that I gave you permission in exchange for a payment. If you turn around and give that login to all your buddies, I'm going to change the keys to that door every time someone than you logs in. This is very much permissible, and this is what pretty much every subscription website does, though the level of monitoring may not be that specific. Ever login to your bank and get bombarded with personal questions? Ever login to gmail to setup security questions? Ever login to steam from a new PC and be asked for a OTP?

That's all a form of changing the keys. You track how many times that key gets changed, and then decide that the guy who has changed the key 300 times a day is probably sharing it.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

As far as GOG is concerned, whatever refund process/policy they come up with, is very much likely not going to be forgiving of the person who buys and refunds things more than once a month.

Mihle · March 4, 2020

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

It would not break any law. You are connecting to "my service" that I gave you permission in exchange for a payment. If you turn around and give that login to all your buddies, I'm going to change the keys to that door every time someone than you logs in. This is very much permissible, and this is what pretty much every subscription website does, though the level of monitoring may not be that specific.

GOG is not a subscription service, its a place where you buy games. And dont come and say its the same thing, because if you do, you obviously do not know EU/Australian law.
The 14 day steam or whatever game store refund limit does only exist because EU/Australian law, it would not have existed otherwise.

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Ever login to your bank and get bombarded with personal questions?

Nope, unless you mean 2FA, and what does that have to do with anything I said?
And is not in any way comparable to GOG anyway.

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Ever login to gmail to setup security questions?

Nope, unless you mean 2FA.
And if you mean the mail about login from a new place, thats just a question with a button to notify if it wasnt you, nothing more. And what does that have to do with anything I said?
And is not in any way comparable to GOG anyway.

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Ever login to steam from a new PC and be asked for a OTP?

Only my 2FA, what does that have to do with anything I said?

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

That's all a form of changing the keys. You track how many times that key gets changed, and then decide that the guy who has changed the key 300 times a day is probably sharing it.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

As far as GOG is concerned, whatever refund process/policy they come up with, is very much likely not going to be forgiving of the person who buys and refunds things more than once a month.

And it shouldnt, but thats something else that you said that you would do...

Andreas Lilja · March 4, 2020

Refund policies wouldn't be a thing if developers made demos like they did back then.

JZStudios · March 4, 2020

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

It would not break any law. You are connecting to "my service" that I gave you permission in exchange for a payment. If you turn around and give that login to all your buddies, I'm going to change the keys to that door every time someone than you logs in. This is very much permissible, and this is what pretty much every subscription website does, though the level of monitoring may not be that specific.

No, games are a good, not a service. The fact that Steam treats it like a service is pure and utter garbage.

Let's look at it like this, what other service on the face of the earth can you pay for, to then have whoever provided that service just come in and take it back when they feel like it? If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, that's a service. He doesn't get to just come over and remove your engine because he feels like it, or because you put in spark plugs he doesn't like. If you pay a contractor to come out and fix your house, that's a service. He doesn't get to just come over and destroy your wall because you painted it yellow.

Steam sells products and goods, there's no subscription fee, there's no indication that it's a service of any kind, there's no pre-planned termination date, they get to just remove or block your access to products you paid for.

GOG gives you DRM free products, and for the most part, once you buy their good, or product, you actually own it. That's the entire point. GOG can prevent you from making future purchases on their store, but anything you bought you actually own. Steam is in a BS superposition where you buy games to own, but not really, because if Steam ever goes down, or if they just decide they don't like you, you can't access anything that you purchased and actually own. Games as a service is fraud, because games are a good.

Kisai · March 4, 2020

2 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

No, games are a good, not a service. The fact that Steam treats it like a service is pure and utter garbage.

Let's look at it like this, what other service on the face of the earth can you pay for, to then have whoever provided that service just come in and take it back when they feel like it? If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, that's a service. He doesn't get to just come over and remove your engine because he feels like it, or because you put in spark plugs he doesn't like. If you pay a contractor to come out and fix your house, that's a service. He doesn't get to just come over and destroy your wall because you painted it yellow.

Steam sells products and goods, there's no subscription fee, there's no indication that it's a service of any kind, there's no pre-planned termination date, they get to just remove or block your access to products you paid for.

GOG gives you DRM free products, and for the most part, once you buy their good, or product, you actually own it. That's the entire point. GOG can prevent you from making future purchases on their store, but anything you bought you actually own. Steam is in a BS superposition where you buy games to own, but not really, because if Steam ever goes down, or if they just decide they don't like you, you can't access anything that you purchased and actually own. Games as a service is fraud, because games are a good.

You seem to just want to talk past me here. Stop doing that and read.

Steam can, and does, track what you do with their service, and using their client, logs you out of other places you are logged in. Steam also controls launching the games, so you can't run a game, and then switch to another device and have continuity to it (unless you have streaming setup to stream from the original machine.) So if some knucklehead decides they're going to defraud steam by refunding the same game very two hours so they can play it indefinitely, will certainly be tracked, and that person will be banned for credit card fraud.

GOG does not track anything unless you use GOG Galaxy, and not to the level Steam does. The only way GOG knows you are sharing your account is if they see more than one IP address connecting to it at the same time. So if you buy a game, save it to your PC, and then refund it, and then give the account away for someone else to repeat, you still end up with the game on your machine. That's fraud. And that's exactly what people have been doing with both GOG and Steam to share things. One person buys the game, and then they give the account away when they're done with it. If someone decides to be ballsy and refund the game on the account, someone is going to get in trouble.