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DenvilX

CAD Mini ITX workstation: i7- 8700 vs 8700K vs 9700K

1 hour ago, GabeThePCHelper said:

I would stick with 8th gen. 9th gen chips would normally require at least a Z390 board.

 

I would go with the B360-I, I don't know what the H310 is, but the B360 is something I know.

9th gen can work on any 300 series chipset officially. However, a BIOS update may be required depending on when you bought the motherboard.

 

1 hour ago, DenvilX said:

All MoBo's will be provided by Asus if that's the concern.

Intel CPU is a requirement from a person, who requested a system and sadly my supply options are limited due to some restrictions.

I have option to opt into Asus Strix b360-i or Asus ROG Strix z390, but the last one will hit over the budget. 

If you require Intel, then how about instead of going with the mainstream platform and go with the Xeon E CPUs on the LGA1151 platform? (specifically the 6 core CPUs)

 

1 hour ago, Turtle Rig said:

The 8700k when overclocked can handle your CAD situation, but I don't know much about CAD and how it uses more cores / threads.

 

I would personally go HEDT for a CAD workstation.  64GB 3200Mhz and drop in a 9900k which is soo cheap now 480 bucks only.  Slap it on a gigabyte Z390 board

For CAD, the 8700K and even the 8700 will beat the 9700K. Specifically something like Autodesk Inventor Pro 2019, that will use up a bunch of threads, at the very least from what I have seen it can take advantage of 16 threads (out of 16, on a Ryzen 7 1700 system), maybe can use more but I personally haven't tested it.

 

44 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

I've never needed ECC ram for CAD, but if the user will be doing heavy FEA simulations then ECC will be good to have. The far more critical thing is the GPU-- a cheaper Quadro may outperform or enable features the RTX 2060 won't allow. This is highly application dependent though.

 

I'd go with the stock 8700 and not overclock anything. Reliability and warranties are key for a system you rely on to pay rent.

If you need reliability, you will want the Xeon platform, not necessarily the i7-8700. I should add that the 8700K does have all the business features unlike previous unlocked CPUs.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Greetings!

 

UPDATE: Due to clarification in the thread, I will go with Asus Strix B360-I. 

CPU QUESTION SOLVED.

 

I have to create a Mini ITX workstation for CAD (Revit mostly) and have most of the build figured out however I'd like to hear your opinion/suggestions. The PC will be on 24/7 while real workload will happen for around 12h for 5 days a week (max load time per week).

Quote

RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR4 16GB x 2 @2666Mhz

MoBo: Asus Prime H310i Plus R2.0

Drive: Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 250GB

Cooler: Standart which comes with CPU.

GPU-2060; CPU-8700 - favourites.

 

Is there any reason to upgrade from i7-8700 to i7-8700K(+64EUR) or to i7-9700K(+92 EUR)? There won't be much rendering, therefore single core performance is most important. With that in mind, Turbo Boost is 4.6/4.7/4.9 Ghz respectively. For that price difference I don't see any real reason to pick more expensive CPU. Prove me wrong or correct :)

 

Thank you all a lot in advance!

 

P.S.

I've submitted original post on Reddit, there you can read the whole story.

Sister posts: GPU question; Case/PSU question.

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12 minutes ago, DenvilX said:

MoBo: Asus Prime H310i Plus R2.0

 If you'll insist on this motherboard the i7 8700 locked is realistically your only option.


Workstation Rig:
CPU:  Intel Core i9 9900K @5.0ghz  |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 |~|  MOBO: Asus Z390M ROG Maximus XI GENE |~| RAM: 32gb 3333mhz CL15 G.Skill Trident Z RGB |~| GPU: nVidia TITAN V  |~| PSU: beQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 80Plus Platinum  |~| Boot: Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2X4TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Iron Wolf + 2X2TB SSD SanDisk Ultra |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Acer Predator X34 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
 
Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


HTPC / "Console of the house":

CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

 If you'll insist on this motherboard the i7 8700 locked is realistically your only option.

I don't have many options and with that in mind have to hit best value here. Will B360-I by Asus provide much better performance? 

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1 minute ago, DenvilX said:

I don't have many options and with that in mind have to hit best value here. Will B360-I by Asus provide much better performance? 

I don't think you should really bother with the i7 9700K over the i7 8700.


Workstation Rig:
CPU:  Intel Core i9 9900K @5.0ghz  |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 |~|  MOBO: Asus Z390M ROG Maximus XI GENE |~| RAM: 32gb 3333mhz CL15 G.Skill Trident Z RGB |~| GPU: nVidia TITAN V  |~| PSU: beQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 80Plus Platinum  |~| Boot: Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2X4TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Iron Wolf + 2X2TB SSD SanDisk Ultra |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Acer Predator X34 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
 
Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


HTPC / "Console of the house":

CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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That's an awful system. Expensive CPU with a cheap ass 50€ Board? That's asking for trouble - and failure.

 

You should look at Ryzen 7/2700(X) or, if possible wait to the end of last month.

 

As a Board: An ASUS, maybe ASROCK Board.

Since AMD Supports ECC RAM, i'd recommend the fastest ECC RAM for a PRODUCTIVE SYSTEM!


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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I would stick with 8th gen. 9th gen chips would normally require at least a Z390 board.

 

I would go with the B360-I, I don't know what the H310 is, but the B360 is something I know.



If my answer got you to your solution make sure to 'Mark Resolved!
( / . _ . / )

 

 

 

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Just now, GabeThePCHelper said:

I would stick with 8th gen. 9th gen chips would normally require at least a Z390 board.

 

I would go with the B360-I, I don't know what the H310 is, but the B360 is something I know.

The 8700k when overclocked can handle your CAD situation, but I don't know much about CAD and how it uses more cores / threads.

 

I would personally go HEDT for a CAD workstation.  64GB 3200Mhz and drop in a 9900k which is soo cheap now 480 bucks only.  Slap it on a gigabyte Z390 board


Asus Sabertooth x79 / 4930k @ 4500 @ 1.408v / Gigabyte WF 2080 RTX / Corsair VG 64GB @ 1866 & AX1600i & H115i Pro @ 2x Noctua NF-A14 / Carbide 330r Blackout

Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface / KRK Rokits 10" / Sennheiser HD 650 / Logitech G Pro Wireless Mouse & G915 Linear & G935 & C920 / SL 88 Grand / Cakewalk / NF-A14 Int P12 Ex
AOC 40" 4k Curved / LG 55" OLED C9 120hz / LaCie Porsche Design 2TB & 500GB / Samsung 950 Pro 500GB / 850 Pro 500GB / Crucial m4 500GB / Asus M.2 Card

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, GabeThePCHelper said:

I would stick with 8th gen. 9th gen chips would normally require at least a Z390 board.

 

I would go with the B360-I, I don't know what the H310 is, but the B360 is something I know.

All MoBo's will be provided by Asus if that's the concern.

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

That's an awful system. Expensive CPU with a cheap ass 50€ Board? That's asking for trouble - and failure.

 

You should look at Ryzen 7/2700(X) or, if possible wait to the end of last month.

 

As a Board: An ASUS, maybe ASROCK Board.

Since AMD Supports ECC RAM, i'd recommend the fastest ECC RAM for a PRODUCTIVE SYSTEM!

Intel CPU is a requirement from a person, who requested a system and sadly my supply options are limited due to some restrictions.

I have option to opt into Asus Strix b360-i or Asus ROG Strix z390, but the last one will hit over the budget. 

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20 minutes ago, DenvilX said:

The PC will be on 24/7 while real workload will happen for around 12h for 5 days a week (max load time per week).

Wich to me sounds like ECC RAM makes sense as 1bit Errors can get corrected and that might happen with a 24/7 System more often because of that.


ECC RAM, although not as fast as non ECC RAM (because nobody makes faster RAM), gives you the extra percent or two of Stability for a productive system.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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1 minute ago, DenvilX said:

All MoBo's will be provided by Asus if that's the concern.

Intel CPU is a requirement from a person, who requested a system and sadly my supply options are limited due to some restrictions.

I have option to opt into Asus Strix b360-i or Asus ROG Strix z390, but the last one will hit over the budget. 

Go b360-i and get the 8700. If you don't need to get super fast CPU speeds to render, you'll be fine with the non k.



If my answer got you to your solution make sure to 'Mark Resolved!
( / . _ . / )

 

 

 

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8700 is your only worthy choice if you're limited to weaker boards


"What's under the heatsink?" ep1, "Why it's not as good as it seem?" AMD fanboy edition out, episode 2 "Why my gaming board is a scam?" Intel fanboy edition coming soon (this is a link)

Hardware specs below

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.4?V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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2 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

The 8700k when overclocked can handle your CAD situation, but I don't know much about CAD and how it uses more cores / threads.

Are you Serious?!
PRODUCTIVE System needs stability, you can't afford to tinker around with it!

 

That's why you usually don't make it yourself.

1 minute ago, DenvilX said:

Intel CPU is a requirement from a person, who requested a system and sadly my supply options are limited due to some restrictions

In that Case I'd tell him to get a DELL System for that.


Because I don't se any reason it has to be Intel, especially since AMD Supports ECC RAM in Desktop CPUs (even if its just inofficially), though you need a GPU for that.

Ryzen APU do not support ECC.

 

 

And no, AMD CPU are not less stable, thats utter bullshit from 25 years ago, when people went cheap all the way on AMD, with NoName PSU and the broken RAM from the shop.

 


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, GabeThePCHelper said:

Go b360-i and get the 8700. If you don't need to get super fast CPU speeds to render, you'll be fine with the non k.

That was actually the main concern, since all sources I found provided by AutoDesk or from people, who use their software - in my requested case scenario single core performance is most important and for this price difference I personally can't define the need of a newer CPU.

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Just now, DenvilX said:

That was actually the main concern, since all sources I found provided by AutoDesk or from people, who use their software - in my requested case scenario single core performance is most important and for this price difference I personally can't define the need of a newer CPU.

Yep. If you're just doing modeling and no rendering, the 8700 would be your best option because it has the performance that would get what you need done.



If my answer got you to your solution make sure to 'Mark Resolved!
( / . _ . / )

 

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Stefan Payne said:

And no, AMD CPU are not less stable, thats utter bullshit from 25 years ago, when people went cheap all the way on AMD, with NoName PSU and the broken RAM from the shop.

Exactly my words to the requestor, yet he feels better using Intel based CPU's due to his own preferences.

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I've never needed ECC ram for CAD, but if the user will be doing heavy FEA simulations then ECC will be good to have. The far more critical thing is the GPU-- a cheaper Quadro may outperform or enable features the RTX 2060 won't allow. This is highly application dependent though.

 

I'd go with the stock 8700 and not overclock anything. Reliability and warranties are key for a system you rely on to pay rent.

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Posted · Best Answer
1 hour ago, GabeThePCHelper said:

I would stick with 8th gen. 9th gen chips would normally require at least a Z390 board.

 

I would go with the B360-I, I don't know what the H310 is, but the B360 is something I know.

9th gen can work on any 300 series chipset officially. However, a BIOS update may be required depending on when you bought the motherboard.

 

1 hour ago, DenvilX said:

All MoBo's will be provided by Asus if that's the concern.

Intel CPU is a requirement from a person, who requested a system and sadly my supply options are limited due to some restrictions.

I have option to opt into Asus Strix b360-i or Asus ROG Strix z390, but the last one will hit over the budget. 

If you require Intel, then how about instead of going with the mainstream platform and go with the Xeon E CPUs on the LGA1151 platform? (specifically the 6 core CPUs)

 

1 hour ago, Turtle Rig said:

The 8700k when overclocked can handle your CAD situation, but I don't know much about CAD and how it uses more cores / threads.

 

I would personally go HEDT for a CAD workstation.  64GB 3200Mhz and drop in a 9900k which is soo cheap now 480 bucks only.  Slap it on a gigabyte Z390 board

For CAD, the 8700K and even the 8700 will beat the 9700K. Specifically something like Autodesk Inventor Pro 2019, that will use up a bunch of threads, at the very least from what I have seen it can take advantage of 16 threads (out of 16, on a Ryzen 7 1700 system), maybe can use more but I personally haven't tested it.

 

44 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

I've never needed ECC ram for CAD, but if the user will be doing heavy FEA simulations then ECC will be good to have. The far more critical thing is the GPU-- a cheaper Quadro may outperform or enable features the RTX 2060 won't allow. This is highly application dependent though.

 

I'd go with the stock 8700 and not overclock anything. Reliability and warranties are key for a system you rely on to pay rent.

If you need reliability, you will want the Xeon platform, not necessarily the i7-8700. I should add that the 8700K does have all the business features unlike previous unlocked CPUs.

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