I CAN'T DEAL WITH WINDOWS 10

[Guest]

Just to deal with the frustration



That icon was depressed today, decided to turn grey...
But then, for no reason, he became happy again

I'm so happy too, they also are the same icons from vista, aren't they? Not considering the Metro control panel nonsense fragmentation

Also this? 

 

[LowWonder]

Epic shitpost from a butthurt kid.

[Delicieuxz]

On 11/20/2018 at 6:24 PM, Benjeh said:

What information is it collecting?
I think the forced updates are to keep people upto date, i mean people are still running XP because they're so afraid of advancement. 

The LTT video only mentions that Microsoft "promises" to not tie data harvested at the "Basic" setting to your person - though, I think that's a bit of a stretch from what Microsoft have said, which is that data harvested at the "Basic" setting is anonymous in the sense that it is directly associated with a unique system ID for you, and not your personal name.

 

But, that unique system ID means you, specifically, so there really is no difference. A harvested-data operator on Microsoft's end isn't going to immediately know who you are if they read Phillip Wrenold instead of ID # location / network / Win 10 version / user account name. But, either one identifies specifically you and your personal identity can be about instantly acquired based on the ID Microsoft has for you.

 

 

The Dutch DPA's investigation showed that all data Microsoft harvests is personally-identifiable, being tagged with everything to identify you, and that none of it is anonymous.

 

 

I think LTT should have mentioned that in their video. There is no promise from Microsoft that "Basic" level harvested data is anonymous. And it isn't.

[Benjeh]

interesting, do you have a mobile phone too?

[Delicieuxz]

52 minutes ago, Benjeh said:

interesting, do you have a mobile phone too?

Yes, why?

[Benjeh]

2 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Yes, why?

do you also have, facebook?

[Delicieuxz]

3 hours ago, Benjeh said:

do you also have, facebook?

Hey, you give some of your money to taxes so you should just give all of it away and not keep any of it. You let your doctor touch your balls so might as well let everyone else touch them, too.

 

Your upcoming point is tired and fallacious, and also is trying to side-step the more accurate answer to the question of how much and what kind of data is Microsoft harvesting from your PC.

 

When Microsoft takes data from your computer, Microsoft is utilizing your hardware, your software, your electricity, your processing power, etc, and is doing it through a paid product that you own. All those things are a cost to you and depend upon the non-licensed use of your personal and private property. The data that Microsoft takes from you is also your personal and private property.

 

Microsoft is stealing from you: Your electricity, your processing power, your data

And is commercializing your property without a license: Your hardware, your software

 

What Microsoft is doing is a criminal offence called Unjust Enrichment, misuse of property, copyright violation, etc.

 

 

Also, any comparison to a free online service like Facebook is invalid. Online free services don't use your electricity, your processing power, or any software owned personally by you to compute and take the data that is generated by your interaction with that online service. That is all done server-side, and the company collecting data is doing it from their own machines and software, using their own housing, hardware, electricity, processing power, etc.

 

In Windows 10, which is a paid product that you own and run on your own computer, all of that is done by your system with you paying to produce and deliver it to Microsoft, who then sell it criminally for their unjust enrichment. What Microsoft is doing is no different than the manufacturer of a power tool that you bought from a store coming into your garage, setting up shop, and using the tools you bought and own just because the manufacturer made them.

 

You aren't entitled to freely use someone else's online service that runs on their machines which they pay for the housing of and the electricity for, and which are running their own software - all of that stuff is their private property and you are merely using it. You ARE entitled to freely use your personally-owned software, such as your Windows 10 OS, and you owe Microsoft and no other company nothing for it because it's a paid-for product (even if you used the "free" upgrade option on one of your owned Windows 7 or 8 licenses) that is exclusively your personal and private property.

 

 

As to what data Microsoft harvests from your PC at the "Basic" setting, all the over-3,500 individual data points listed here are harvested at the "Basic" setting:

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/configure-windows-diagnostic-data-in-your-organization

 

And there is also data beyond what is listed there harvested by Microsoft from your Windows 10 OS, which is revealed to be harvested if monitoring what data is being sent to Microsoft using the Diagnostic Data Viewer tool.

 

And none of it is anonymous. It all personally identifies you.

 

 

Do you have Windows 10? Well then, since you don't care about having a 3rd party access your system to piggyback on your resources to generate profit for the, please install a crypto-currency miner that I give to you and direct its payouts to a cypto-currency wallet of mine. That is the same arrangement you seem to be willing to accept with Microsoft regarding your data that Microsoft sells for profit, so please also make the same arrangement with me regarding other digital bits.

[Ashleyyyy]

11 hours ago, Benjeh said:

do you also have, facebook?

what does that matter? a social network and an OS are completely different things. 

 

@Delicieuxz i didn't even know it was personally identifiable. i thought it wasn't... that's scary. good thing i don't really use Windows much anymore. 

[Donut417]

On 11/17/2018 at 10:01 PM, MyLittleFella said:

Hail this beautiful clean "Win7 look":

Not going to lie your post made my day. 

 

Any who. Windows 10 and me have a love hate relationship. There are things about the OS I like, but there are also things that make me want to punch a panda in the face. I will say this, when and if I replace my laptop when it becomes useless i WILL NOT buy a Windows laptop. I will either go Chromebook or Mac (LOL, I dont have any Mac OS experience). I only tolerate Windows for gaming and thats about it. Even now I dont game a lot and if I had to Id move to console, I already own a Swtich. 

[MyLittleFella]

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not going to lie your post made my day. 

 

Any who. Windows 10 and me have a love hate relationship. There are things about the OS I like, but there are also things that make me want to punch a panda in the face. I will say this, when and if I replace my laptop when it becomes useless i WILL NOT buy a Windows laptop. I will either go Chromebook or Mac (LOL, I dont have any Mac OS experience). I only tolerate Windows for gaming and thats about it. Even now I dont game a lot and if I had to Id move to console, I already own a Swtich. 

Yeah bro, exactly. There are great functionalities on Win10 like the native "print to pdf" printer and the .ISO emulation, but idk dude... The overall system still bugs me out.

And btw, I managed to install 7:

 

The score is kinda low because turbo boost is off.

[IronMan77]

OP sounds like someone that hated Windows Vista but liked Windows Mojave. 

[MyLittleFella]

1 hour ago, IronMan77 said:

OP sounds like someone that hated Windows Vista but liked Windows Mojave. 

Nah, I actually didn't use Mojave, Longhorn or Vista. I Installed Win7 when I built my first own PC back in 2011 (It was a FX 6100)... Before that, I had a core 2 duo 8400 running XP.

[KuJoe]

I couldn't stand Windows 8.1, I jumped to Windows 10 the moment it was available. Even after spending a small fortune on software to make 8.1 look and feel like 7 it wasn't enough. Windows 10 has it's quirks, but I can't say I hate it. I do wish there was a stripped down version I could use, but with a little command line and registry magic I've gotten rid of all of the bloatware I've been able to find.

[MyLittleFella]

10 hours ago, KuJoe said:

I do wish there was a stripped down version I could use

There is. LTSB or LTSC. But you'll have to use through alternative (ish) ways.

[Benjeh]

On 11/23/2018 at 2:17 AM, Delicieuxz said:

Spoiler

 

Hey, you give some of your money to taxes so you should just give all of it away and not keep any of it. You let your doctor touch your balls so might as well let everyone else touch them, too.

 

Your upcoming point is tired and fallacious, and also is trying to side-step the more accurate answer to the question of how much and what kind of data is Microsoft harvesting from your PC.

 

When Microsoft takes data from your computer, Microsoft is utilizing your hardware, your software, your electricity, your processing power, etc, and is doing it through a paid product that you own. All those things are a cost to you and depend upon the non-licensed use of your personal and private property. The data that Microsoft takes from you is also your personal and private property.

 

Microsoft is stealing from you: Your electricity, your processing power, your data

And is commercializing your property without a license: Your hardware, your software

 

What Microsoft is doing is a criminal offence called Unjust Enrichment, misuse of property, copyright violation, etc.

 

 

Also, any comparison to a free online service like Facebook is invalid. Online free services don't use your electricity, your processing power, or any software owned personally by you to compute and take the data that is generated by your interaction with that online service. That is all done server-side, and the company collecting data is doing it from their own machines and software, using their own housing, hardware, electricity, processing power, etc.

 

In Windows 10, which is a paid product that you own and run on your own computer, all of that is done by your system with you paying to produce and deliver it to Microsoft, who then sell it criminally for their unjust enrichment. What Microsoft is doing is no different than the manufacturer of a power tool that you bought from a store coming into your garage, setting up shop, and using the tools you bought and own just because the manufacturer made them.

 

You aren't entitled to freely use someone else's online service that runs on their machines which they pay for the housing of and the electricity for, and which are running their own software - all of that stuff is their private property and you are merely using it. You ARE entitled to freely use your personally-owned software, such as your Windows 10 OS, and you owe Microsoft and no other company nothing for it because it's a paid-for product (even if you used the "free" upgrade option on one of your owned Windows 7 or 8 licenses) that is exclusively your personal and private property.

 

 

As to what data Microsoft harvests from your PC at the "Basic" setting, all the over-3,500 individual data points listed here are harvested at the "Basic" setting:

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/configure-windows-diagnostic-data-in-your-organization

 

And there is also data beyond what is listed there harvested by Microsoft from your Windows 10 OS, which is revealed to be harvested if monitoring what data is being sent to Microsoft using the Diagnostic Data Viewer tool.

 

And none of it is anonymous. It all personally identifies you.

 

 

Do you have Windows 10? Well then, since you don't care about having a 3rd party access your system to piggyback on your resources to generate profit for the, please install a crypto-currency miner that I give to you and direct its payouts to a cypto-currency wallet of mine. That is the same arrangement you seem to be willing to accept with Microsoft regarding your data that Microsoft sells for profit, so please also make the same arrangement with me regarding other digital bits.

 

 

So how are they getting away with harvesting peoples data as you say the are?

[camjocotem]

I don't have facebook

Quite happy about that

 

But yeah I'm not a big fan of Windows 10 either, I was infuriated when I was given the decision of:

"How much information do you want to share with Microsoft?"

as opposed do

"Would you like to share this information with Microsoft?"

 

Additionally I can NOT believe their approach to testing.

I have no issues with developers doing testing and writing automated tests but I have issues that it's not a dedicated QA team doing the testing (Unless you consider those poor Windows 10 Home users out there) We've ended up with some annoying buggy implementations

 

I have gone with Classic start menu as I just want to see a large list of folders where all my stuff is installed at once,

as opposed to a smaller fancy-looking-but-annoying list you have to scroll through or search with Cortana (I don't always remember what it's called, show me that big list boi

 

The only things that I liked the sound of were:

-Native Docker support

-Bash integration(even if it does run from a small vm)

 

Also dislike how they're not supporting newer CPUs on Windows 7

I don't like Windows 10 and it feels like it's being forced on me.

 

I considered going to get a Mac but hearing from a friend that uses them they told me they've had multiple occasions on previous versions where an update was installed that flat out broke stuff or just made the system slower.

 

Maybe Linux is the only way to go?

[Baileybrat]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:00 PM, camjocotem said:

Maybe Linux is the only way to go?

I run Peppermint Linux and I LOVE it but I feel like Linux still has a long way to go. Play on Linux and wine do not work really well on all systems, and some apps just flat out wont run on it. I love it for learning coding and just general internet. I do use my wifes Windows 10 laptop sometimes just for the ease of moving files over the network.

[Koeshi]

On 11/25/2018 at 5:11 PM, MyLittleFella said:

There is. LTSB or LTSC. But you'll have to use through alternative (ish) ways.

You have a recommendation on that?  I use Linux as my daily driver but have W10 LTSB around for certain game compatibilities.  

[chiller15]

On 11/25/2018 at 5:11 PM, MyLittleFella said:

There is. LTSB or LTSC. But you'll have to use through alternative (ish) ways.

LTSB/C is not recommended, even for enterprise use, let-alone home users. It isn't commercially available for home users either, so you'd have to obtain it ilegally. LTSB/C is  specifically designed for the enterprise/industry sectors that need the OS to be extremely stable for very long periods of time, such as on manufacturing machines, POS, etc. Whilst that may sound great, there are trade-offs, such as updates and future features that you'd have to wait at least 3 years for until the next LTSC version is released.

 

There are also other (and official) ways of removing the built-in apps from the OS either prior or after it has been installed. I do this when I deploy Windows 10 Education across the computers in my school.

 

Also, recommending that other people use an out-dated and less secure OS is a dumb idea.

[Delicieuxz]

19 minutes ago, chiller15 said:

LTSB/C is not recommended, even for enterprise use, let-alone home users. It isn't commercially available for home users either, so you'd have to obtain it ilegally. LTSB/C is  specifically designed for the enterprise/industry sectors that need the OS to be extremely stable for very long periods of time, such as on manufacturing machines, POS, etc. Whilst that may sound great, there are trade-offs, such as updates and future features that you'd have to wait at least 3 years for until the next LTSC version is released.

 

There are also other (and official) ways of removing the built-in apps from the OS either prior or after it has been installed. I do this when I deploy Windows 10 Education across the computers in my school.

 

Also, recommending that other people use an out-dated and less secure OS is a dumb idea.

LTSB / LTSC is fine for any user. It has everything that Home, Pro, and Enterprise have in them except for UWP apps (including Cortana) - which most people don't want, anyway.

 

And while it doesn't receive feature updates, an in-place upgrade can be performed using an ISO of the next LTSC version (if a person wants to do that). Again, though, a lot of people, including people in this thread, don't want feature updates.

 

LTSB / LTSC also provides the OS owner with improved control over the OS compared to Home and Pro.

 

 

The first-sale doctrine applies to software throughout Western countries (and the rest of the world probably doesn't acknowledge any rules on software reselling), and so you can legally buy an LTSB or LTSC license from eBay, reddit, Craigslist, and many other places, and for very cheap, too.

 

Here's an LTSB 2016 license for under $8 USD: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Windows-10-Enterprise-LTSB-2016-32-64-bit-Activation-Key/352484437906

 

 

Right now, while LTSC 2019 is the newer version of LTSB / LTSC available, it also has bugs like all the other editions of Windows 10 1809. So, a lot of people are sticking with LTSB 2016 for now.

 

As an aside, here's a neat custom release of Windows 10 LTSB 2016 that replaces Windows 10's ugly title bars and task bar with aero glass style:

 

 

There's a download link for that release in the video description. It will require a person to have their own LTSB license, though.

[chiller15]

13 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

LTSB / LTSC is fine for any user. It has everything that Home, Pro, and Enterprise have in them except for UWP apps - which most people don't want, anyway.

 

And it doesn't receive feature updates (though, an in-place upgrade can be applied with an ISO of the next LTSC version).

 

LTSB / LTSC also provides the OS owner with improved control over the OS compared to Home and Pro.

 

 

The first-sale doctrine applies to software throughout Western countries (and the rest of the world probably doesn't acknowledge any rules on software reselling), and so you can legally buy an LTSB or LTSC license from eBay, reddit, Craigslist, and many other places, and for very cheap, too.

 

Here's an LTSB 2016 license for under $8 USD: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Windows-10-Enterprise-LTSB-2016-32-64-bit-Activation-Key/352484437906

Whilst it would work for any user, like I said, it is not recommended.

 

Microsoft's own use-cases are for the likes of ATMs and medical machines: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/18581/lifecycle-faq-windows-products#b4

Microsoft don't recommend using Microsoft Office on LTSB and say that browsing the Internet on LTSB is an indication that LTSB is the wrong version for you: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/surface/2017/04/11/documentation-updates-for-surface-and-windows-10-ltsb-compatibility/

 

As for licensing, I wouldn't recommend those licenses as you don't know where they have been sourced from. You cannot guarantee their legitimacy. There's nothing stopping you purchasing them, but you probably shouldn't be recommending them to other people .

[WereCatf]

Meh. I use Windows 10 without an issue and I have no particular reason to love or hate it. I disabled the telemetry-stuff and Cortana, but other than that, I haven't done anything special and it works the same as Windows 7 or Windows 8.

[Delicieuxz]

16 minutes ago, chiller15 said:

Whilst it would work for any user, like I said, it is not recommended.

 

Microsoft's own use-cases are for the likes of ATMs and medical machines: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/18581/lifecycle-faq-windows-products#b4

Microsoft don't recommend using Microsoft Office on LTSB and say that browsing the Internet on LTSB is an indication that LTSB is the wrong version for you: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/surface/2017/04/11/documentation-updates-for-surface-and-windows-10-ltsb-compatibility/

What Microsoft recommends is irrelevant because LTSB / LTSC is simply Windows 10 without UWP apps and feature updates but with improved configuration options and stability, and a person can think for themselves whether that suits them or not.

 

Since aside from UWP and feature updates LTSB / LTSC is actually more comprehensive and configurable than Home and Pro, how could a normal person who doesn't use or want UWP and feature updates somehow find LTSB / LTSC not suitable to their needs and use-cases? It's everything and more than Home and Pro are, UWP and feature updates aside.

 

That said, at least some UWP functionality and apps can be manually added to LTSB / LTSC. Though, I think most people attracted to LTSB / LTSC find its lack of UWP functionality and apps to be a benefit. And like I've said, an in-place upgrade can be performed with an ISO of a newer version of LTSC. Who wants to be updating their OS twice a year anyway? That's only a liability, and Windows 10 updates are just filled with bloatware and added spying. Windows 7 hasn't received a major update since 2011 and it still does everything that Windows 10 does, aside from DirectX 12 programs. People don't want Windows 10's bi-annual bloatware updates.

 

 

With their recommendation to not use LTSB / LTSC, Microsoft is simply trying to fear-monger people away from using it because Microsoft wants people to have UWP which Microsoft makes lots of money from collecting telemetry from, and to use the Microsoft Store which makes Microsoft money on purchases, and to be able to push new data-harvesting updates to people's Home and Pro OSes. Microsoft's recommendation is like a rapist recommending that you submit to them. The recommendation has nothing to do with the system owner's interests, and everything to do with what the rapist / Microsoft wants to do to exploit system / Windows owners.

 

As I said, LTSB / LTSC is a more controllable and stable Windows 10 (which is a good thing) without UWP (though you can add it) and feature updates (though you can perform an in-place upgrade if you want to). People can figure out for themselves whether that makes LTSB / LTSC better for them than Home and Pro.

 

Since I don't use or want UWP (because it's garbage and inferior to Win32) and I also don't want feature updates (because they practically only bring risks, problems. and bloatware), and I want a more reliable, stable, and consistent OS, going with Windows 10 LTSB / LTSC is a no-brainer.

[chiller15]

7 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

What Microsoft recommends is irrelevant because LTSB / LTSC is simply Windows 10 without UWP apps and feature updates but with improved configuration options and stability, and a person can think for themselves whether that suits them or not.

 

Since aside from UWP and feature updates LTSB / LTSC is actually more comprehensive and configurable than Home and Pro, how could a normal person who doesn't use or want UWP and feature updates somehow find LTSB / LTSC not suitable to their needs and use-cases? It's everything and more than Home and Pro are, UWP and feature updates aside.

 

That said, at least some UWP functionality and apps can be manually added to LTSB / LTSC. Though, I think most people attracted to LTSB / LTSC find its lack of UWP functionality and apps to be a benefit. And like I've said, an in-place upgrade can be performed with an ISO of a newer version of LTSC. Who wants to be updating their OS twice a year anyway? That's only a liability, and Windows 10 updates are just filled with bloatware and added spying. Windows 7 hasn't received a major update since 2011 and it still does everything that Windows 10 does, aside from DirectX 12 programs. People don't want Windows 10's bi-annual bloatware updates.

 

 

With their recommendation to not use LTSB / LTSC, Microsoft is simply trying to fear-monger people away from using it because Microsoft wants people to have UWP which Microsoft makes lots of money from collecting telemetry from, and to use the Microsoft Store which makes Microsoft money on purchases, and to be able to push new data-harvesting updates to people's Home and Pro OSes. Microsoft's recommendation is like a rapist recommending that you submit to them. The recommendation has nothing to do with the system owner's interests, and everything to do with what the rapist / Microsoft wants to do to exploit system / Windows owners.

I think the main reason behind LTSB was because of their aggressive update strategy (semi-annual). It give a lof of concern to IT admins (myself included), LTSB allowed for the older style update every few years stance, but Microsoft didn't want most users to go down that route.

 

Also do you know why LTSB is more configurable than Home/Pro? Because it isn't based on Home/Pro, it's based on Enterprise, which is for, the enterprise.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with some of your points about LTSB, but it isstill isn't something that should be recommended to your average home user.

[Delicieuxz]

1 minute ago, chiller15 said:

I think the main reason behind LTSB was because of their aggressive update strategy (semi-annual). It give a lof of concern to IT admins (myself included), LTSB allowed for the older style update every few years stance, but Microsoft didn't want most users to go down that route.

Home and Pro are literally test releases of Windows 10, so-described by Microsoft themselves, which are heavily monetized and designed to harvest as much personal data from people as possible for Microsoft to then sell all that harvested data. Home and Pro come with pre-installed programs, advertisements, higher levels of data-harvesting, and locked-down controls that prevent people from doing things like removing Microsoft Store, turning off Windows Update, and toning down the amount of data that Microsoft harvests from people. Windows 10 Home and Pro are for-Microsoft OSes. Their restrictions have entirely nothing to do with what benefits the system owners.

 

Corporate and mission-critical systems don't need feature updates and certainly don't want to be risking any issues from large updates. Also, corporations don't want their data and activities to be spied on and harvested by Microsoft, and wouldn't trust Microsoft to harvest large amounts of activity and content data.

 

Windows 10 LTSB / LTSC are simply normal Windows 10 without all the bad stuff.

 

 

Having Windows 10 LTSB / LTSC is the equivalent of Windows 7 SP1 in 2011: You have the latest Windows version, it's stable (the most stable version of Windows 10 there is, anyway), it will remain solid, secure, and relevant for the next 5 - 10 years. Where's the downside?

 

 

1 minute ago, chiller15 said:

Also do you know why LTSB is more configurable than Home/Pro? Because it isn't based on Home/Pro, it's based on Enterprise, which is for, the enterprise.

All Enterprise is, is a cleaner version of Windows 10 Pro with more options if you look for them - they aren't jumping out at you while you're using the OS, and the interface isn't any different.

 

The difference is just that if you choose to go looking for an option in the Group Policy editor, it will actually be there and it will be configurable in Windows 10 Enterprise / LTSC, whereas it might not be in Pro, and the Group Policy editor isn't there at all in Home.

 

Enterprise and LTSC also afford the OS owner to turn down telemetry to "security-only", while Pro doesn't, and Home again of course doesn't have the Group Policy editor at all.

 

The statures of the different editions of Windows have been downgraded across the board from what they represented with Windows 7. Windows 7 Pro is comparable in functionality and configurability to Windows 10 Enterprise or LTSC - more so Windows 10 LTSC.

 

 

1 minute ago, chiller15 said:

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with some of your points about LTSB, but it isstill isn't something that should be recommended to your average home user.

Well, that's like saying that the average home user shouldn't be able to choose to turn down the amount of data that Microsoft harvests from them, or to decide not to receive feature updates, or to decide they don't want Microsoft Store and Cortana in their OS and on their system. Why would that be the case? Being able to choose those things is a right of people, and they know better than anyone whether they want those things or not.

 

And if a person wants those things, they can choose to have them. If they don't, they can choose to not have them. Enterprise and LTSC simply let people have the choice just like they did in Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate.

 

I think LTSB / LTSC is the version of Windows 10 that everybody wants, and is benefited by having, but which Microsoft tries to prevent people from using because when people use LTSB / LTSC Microsoft is deprived of a lot of activity and purchase monetization and data.