Help! Speaker setup - amp/reciever/both?

[JeighDe]

Hello good people. I am in need of enlightment.

 

Some months ago i picked up some used speakers from a guy for like $5. They were from a 5.1 home theater setup, that he broke or something.

 

I was thinking maybe making a soundbar, using those drivers, maybe not. But first i need to figure out wiring, etc.

 

If I remember correctly, the speakers are all 8ohms. Center 125W, fronts 55W each and rears i think 125W each (or the other way around). I dont even want a subwoofer, i just wanna use them instead of my crappy TV speakers.

 

I tried researching but barely understand a thing. Do i need an amp, to drive those speakers, do i need a receiver, or both? Does it matter what wattage amp? Or is impedance the important bit?

 

Please help.

[JZStudios]

Receivers have amps built in. I'd also assume the fronts are higher wattage than the rears.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most receivers are 6-8ohms with some form of toggle somewhere.. Or maybe it's 4-6? Shouldn't really matter either way.

[JeighDe]

Do i need to find a receiver, rated at around 500W, in order to power all those speakers?

What if i was to go with amp, is it going to be able to transfer audio signal itself somehow, like a 3.5mm jack or optical input? Or is receiver a must, in order to actually proccess audio signal?

[YaBoiWill]

If you can find a combo amp/receiver. Also, you might need a sub in the set up, otherwise u might not get any low range, or only a very small amount. Often for surround, you would need more than one 3.5m jack, otherwise it might just be stereo. 

[JZStudios]

7 hours ago, JeighDe said:

Do i need to find a receiver, rated at around 500W, in order to power all those speakers?

What if i was to go with amp, is it going to be able to transfer audio signal itself somehow, like a 3.5mm jack or optical input? Or is receiver a must, in order to actually proccess audio signal?

I don't think there's a whole lot of 5.1 receivers that are under 500... but that's also basically the max load of those speakers, not the minimum and you shouldn't really need to get that close to it.

 

The receiver typically decodes the surround audio formats via HDMI, otherwise it's up to whatever your source is that may not actually support it. Otherwise you might be able to get 3 amps... 

So the issue is that over 3.5 they all only do stereo. So one cable does front left and right, one does rear left and right, and one does center and subwoofer. So would need 1 amp per cable, but you'd need to NOT have DAC's because then they can't decode the audio format, and certainly not in the way you'd want. You'd need 3 amps that have a 3.5mm input that would then get output to all your speakers.

So, yeah an AVR is your easiest option.

And a subwoofer would probably be a good idea unless they're large powered speakers.

[JeighDe]

2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I don't think there's a whole lot of 5.1 receivers that are under 500... but that's also basically the max load of those speakers, not the minimum and you shouldn't really need to get that close to it.

 

The receiver typically decodes the surround audio formats via HDMI, otherwise it's up to whatever your source is that may not actually support it.

<...>

So, yeah an AVR is your easiest option.

Thanks guys, it is already helping me understand some basics.

 

The questions i have now, is how do i pick the right receiver, to be able to power those speakers?

They are passive, from what i understand. There are only Red and White (or Red and Black) clamps on the backs of each of them.

How do I find the right ammount of power? The impedance? Or are they sort of universal?

Are there any features/functions i should be looking at? I'll most likely end up buying a used one.

[JZStudios]

8 hours ago, JeighDe said:

Thanks guys, it is already helping me understand some basics.

 

The questions i have now, is how do i pick the right receiver, to be able to power those speakers?

They are passive, from what i understand. There are only Red and White (or Red and Black) clamps on the backs of each of them.

How do I find the right ammount of power? The impedance? Or are they sort of universal?

Are there any features/functions i should be looking at? I'll most likely end up buying a used one.

You could buy a 1500 watt system or a 300 watt system. It just changes the amount of power going to the speakers, and thus volume. Your speakers are rated for... whatever they say they are, and that's basically the max voltage they'll handle before blowing out or burning down. Most AVRs tell you the watts/channel along with the max total combined wattage. The sub gets the most power, the 5 speakers are usually the same (or thereabout).

So really, any receiver would work fine and you really shouldn't even need to max them out.

 

I myself bout a HTIB (Home theater in a box) from Yamaha including the RX-V378 and the NS-B40 speakers. They updated the AVR to RX-V379 to include HDR and stuff.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v379_u/specs.html#product-tabs

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-p40/specs.html#product-tabs

 

The important thing to note is that the nominal wattage of the speakers is 30 watts, while the (relatively) low powered AVR provides over 100. Even then the volume goes on a scale of decibels from -80 to -10.5... which I may have capped off I'm pretty sure it went to +10 or 20... and it never goes above -25 on my PS4 and usually -30 on my PC. And on my PC I control the Windows audio, so it's usually set pretty low.

Point being, don't worry too much about the wattage.

 

My Yamaha also has a software toggle for impedance values, I'll be honest I don't know if it's common but it's also not really a huge deal. Most AVRs have a set value which is a typical average. It's either 6 or 8, and it's not really enough to make a huge difference for your application. (I'm certainly no expert on it though.)

 

As for features and functions, a lot of them depend on your use case and what you want, but as a standard, you absolutely want something with individual EQ per channel. I'm VERY pleased with the features and settings on my Yamaha. I'm pretty sure it uses the same software as the top end models, so it has a lot of really nice features. On the other hand my brother bought a Pioneer because it had slightly more power (with no real effect or benefit) and it's lacking basic EQ per channel and other features my Yamaha has.

 

So what's your use case? Is it running through a PC, or just for TV and streaming?

[JeighDe]

Thanks for the reply, it helps a great deal.

 

So initially I thought of a project to build a soundbard, and just pull out the drivers from the speakers and put them in a hand-built housing.

Then i had another idea to just build a "thingy"* around the TV, housing the drivers in it.

*See the picture, the wooden frame around TV, I was thinking of making a new one, bigger one, to cover the gaps. And house the drivers at the top and left, right sides of TV, within that frame.

 

Now im not so sure on what to do, if i need an external xbox sized receiver.

 

My use case would be for the speakers to work over the TV speakers. Just to give more sound, be louder.

I watched a movie the other day and it was on 85/100 volume, and very muddy.

 

Hope this helps, and you may provide me even more valuable info.

[JZStudios]

Well first off, DON'T MIX AUDIO SOURCES! It's awful!

Secondly, I've never heard of Bush TV's... sounds kinda... graphic. 

Building a new box for that hole with built in speakers would be pretty sweet. It also looks like it's pretty empty underneath.. if you're up for it then cutting a big square hole under the TV and making a media center cabinet I think would be a good idea. If you don't... well you could always just cheese it and find somewhere to put the AVR and just pass through a cable. Most (if not all) AVRs still use IR, so you'd need it somewhere visible where you can point at it with the remote. I do know there exists IR receivers on extensions so you can hide whatever it is your trying to signal, but I couldn't tell you which if any AVRs support that.

 

Another thing is I'm assuming that TV is a bit old and being a... peculiar brand probably doesn't have HDMI audio out so you might have to use a S/PDIF cable... Although that also depends... I don't know where your a/v stream is coming from.

To put it simply, My brothers AVR needs S/PDIF from his smart TV and the apps on it, but the PS# will run HDMI and full surround through the AVR to the TV. Why any modern smart TV doesn't have HDMI audio out... I couldn't tell you.

 

I think the bigger issue is trying to make a speaker box frame that's removable in order to access inputs to the TV or upgrading to a new one. But that's more up to you.

 

Hmm... looking at the picture... maybe you could alternatively just cut the hole further down and put a shelf (And sides and a back wouldn't hurt) on the bottom and just set the AVR there. Just a couple different ways to go about it.

[JeighDe]

As you can see in the first image, the TV unit itself was hand built by yours truly, from scratch. Planned it all, tot some MDF cut out, some screws and paint, etc. I will be OK figuring out where to put the speakers/drivers. Its the connectivity I am not very familiar with.

 

Now, the BUSH brand is well know in UK, they make TVs, soundbars, dishwashers, frigdes and so on, moatly on the cheap side. It's  about 3 years old. I found the manual online and snapped the pictures for connections (BUSH 40/133f model number if you need to look it up).

 

The third picture is my TV/Internet provider's TV box. Virgin Media TV V6 box or something like that.

 

Im basically only running

HDMI 1 from TV to XBOX

HDMI 2 from TV to the TV box

[JZStudios]

Holy crap that TV claims to have ARC... ARC is Audio Return Channel and you'll want to plug in your ARC port on your receiver to that, then the TV and receiver can send audio and other signals back and forth instead of one way. I think as an added bonus it should also auto switch inputs, but it's not a huge deal.

The Xbox and TV box you can just plug into the inputs on the receiver and the audio/visual will be passed through to the TV.

Since you already cut a hole in the wall and have a media center stand thing I really think it would be worthwhile and make some inset shelves on the bottom and ditch the media center. You could also probably mount them to either side of your TV... location.

Those Rockits aren't the speakers you're planning to use are they? 

 

Actually that whole... thing the TV is set in kind of baffles me... is there a reason it just juts out? seems like it's just a lot of empty space they decided to take up.

[JeighDe]

Well, actually, i am renting, this place had this big hole already. I am pretty sure there used to be a fireplace, but it baffles me, why the owner hasn't donenit all flush. Granted, not the TV sits flush with that pushed put wall, but otherwise it's just poor planning and building.

 

In any case, i am not really in a position to do anything to the walls. I will have to adapt domething somehow.

 

Now, tge ARC connection - i am not sure what you mean. I do not see which one it is. Is it the "Digital audio output"? Do lower budget receivers have those?

 

Just to reiterate (sorry, dont know how to spell that word) - i got the speakers for around $5. I will make something for very cheap with some mdf, metal attachments and paint, to house/hold the speakers. And i will be looking probably at a used budget receiver, so that I don't have to listen to those crappy built-in TV speakers.

 

Do i need any ARC connections? Or digital audio output should suffice? We pretty much covered the wattage and impedance.

[JeighDe]

Also to digress from the topic a bit, no, the Rokits aren't the ones. I have them there as a display now, cause i don't have enough wall sockets now, to power everything, plus its annoying to always have to turn on each speaker and TV individually. Wanted to sell them, but offers of ~$100 don't statisfy me, for the sound you get from them.

[JZStudios]

10 hours ago, JeighDe said:

Well, actually, i am renting, this place had this big hole already. I am pretty sure there used to be a fireplace, but it baffles me, why the owner hasn't donenit all flush. Granted, not the TV sits flush with that pushed put wall, but otherwise it's just poor planning and building.

 

In any case, i am not really in a position to do anything to the walls. I will have to adapt domething somehow.

 

Now, tge ARC connection - i am not sure what you mean. I do not see which one it is. Is it the "Digital audio output"? Do lower budget receivers have those?

 

Just to reiterate (sorry, dont know how to spell that word) - i got the speakers for around $5. I will make something for very cheap with some mdf, metal attachments and paint, to house/hold the speakers. And i will be looking probably at a used budget receiver, so that I don't have to listen to those crappy built-in TV speakers.

 

Do i need any ARC connections? Or digital audio output should suffice? We pretty much covered the wattage and impedance.

The ARC claims to be #7 on your TV's manual. I think any modern receiver should have it... most HDMI ARC ports say ARC on it, but a lot don't. You could also do some Googling on anything you find, but it seems like all your audio and video is going TO the TV, not FROM the TV, so it shouldn't be an issue. Smart TVs have all the apps (and since we don't feel like paying for cable we just use the broadcast TV) that make sound FROM the TV, but not all smart TVs have an ARC HDMI channel so you have to use S/PDIF to get the audio to the receiver... which is really stupid.

 

You have a cable box and an XBox for TV and streaming, and anything else you might add would also just run through the receiver, so no sound should be coming from the TV, only to it. So.. really you shouldn't have to worry about ARC. It's a nice to have in your case.

 

Since this hasn't been covered (and you'll probably use HDMI since your getting visual anyways) you can get audio over HDMI or S/PDIF (Digital/Optical) The differences are that S/PDIF only does uncompressed Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM) in stereo, and compressed/encoded formats for surround sound up to 5.1. This includes Dolby Digital and DTS. It does not provide visual of any kind.

HDMI allows for full 7.1 (I'm honestly unsure how 9.1 or Atmos systems work) uncompressed LPCM passthrough, as well as HD video. It'll pass through basically any kind of audio format that your receiver will then decode. Blu-Ray movies have Dolby Master Quality Audio which is full uncompressed surround sound.

 

Basically HDMI has higher quality audio and 7.1 support along with HD/4k video over S/PDIF digital/optical that only does compressed audio.

9 hours ago, JeighDe said:

Also to digress from the topic a bit, no, the Rokits aren't the ones. I have them there as a display now, cause i don't have enough wall sockets now, to power everything, plus its annoying to always have to turn on each speaker and TV individually. Wanted to sell them, but offers of ~$100 don't statisfy me, for the sound you get from them.

I actually rather dislike the way those Rockits sound, so I certainly wouldn't buy them. 

[JZStudios]

So, to keep it simple since I've gone on and on...

Just about any receiver will work. Obviously you'll want one with HDMI inputs, most have at least 4, which will let you plug in a few other things (laptops or something.)

 

ARC is nice but not a requirement in your scenario.

 

Try to find one that lets you EQ each speaker individually. If you ever change speakers it's a very useful feature. Or if any of your speakers aren't the same.

 

I'd also recommend looking for one that has an OSD (On Screen Display) Again, it's a nice to have, but trying to go through the settings one line at a time and trying to decypher what random letters stand for gets tedious. (My brothers pioneer has this issue and I need to look at the user manual every time. My Yamaha's OSD on monitor and receiver are both very clear.)

 

Don't buy without a remote, or check and see if you can find one somewhere. A big failing in most receivers is that if you don't have a remote you're kind of screwed.

[JeighDe]

I appreciate all your help, kind sir.

 

Will try and shop around. Maybe i won't forget to report back, when/if im successful with my endeavours lol.

[JZStudios]

Best of luck to you. Hope you enjoy your finished setup.