GeForce Partner Program may be to blame for lack of Kaby Lake-G products

[Razor01]

Just now, NowakVulpix said:

Yeah they did, but tbh I'd like to see KL-G in more normal laptops as well.

Its a very expensive product, HBM 2 costs double or more than that of regular gddr 5x right now, add to that the cost of inflated prices......

[Drak3]

Just now, NowakVulpix said:

To be honest, I can't see it requiring too radical of a cooling redesign unless you're trying to cool the 100W i7-8809G, especially when the 8809G is overclocked. The 65W, locked 8705G should be much more manageable, cooling-wise.

Open up most laptops. GPU and CPU, not next to each other. They're further away than Kaby-G.

 

The issue is the layout. If they can cool the 7920HQ and a GTX1080 in a laptop, they can cool anything, provided it doesn't get moved.

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

Intel will front the costs for redesign of the products

Extremely unlikely. Kaby-G is a niche product, and if anything, a pet project. Not a serious contender.

 

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

this is done all time to bring something new to the market.

A) This ain't new

B) That still doesn't answer the issue of the time it takes for redesign.

[Nowak]

Just now, Razor01 said:

Its a very expensive product, HBM 2 costs double or more than that of regular gddr 5x right now, add to that the cost of inflated prices......

Pretty sure that OEMs can still get graphics cards at MSRP, because of the volume they buy them in.

[Drak3]

Just now, NowakVulpix said:

Pretty sure that OEMs can still get graphics cards at MSRP, because of the volume they buy them in.

They get graphics cards below MSRP, that's how they sell them at/around MSRP.

[Razor01]

Just now, Drak3 said:

A) This ain't new

B) That still doesn't answer the issue of the time it takes for redesign.

Intel already designed notebooks for Kaby lake G didn't they, they showed them off right, I might be wrong here, but I was pretty sure they did.

 

1 minute ago, NowakVulpix said:

Pretty sure that OEMs can still get graphics cards at MSRP, because of the volume they buy them in.

Oh they can't, right now memory makers are making a butt load of money, GN's had a video on this.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

They get graphics cards below MSRP, that's how they sell them at/around MSRP.

Makes sense.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

Intel already designed notebooks for Kaby lake G didn't they, they showed them off right, I might be wrong here, but I was pretty sure they did.

Intel also has no existing designs. They've had access to Kaby-G for quite some time. And Intel demonstrates dozens of products that never make it to market.

 

Just now, NowakVulpix said:

Makes sense.

Same for cars. MSRP is just the suggested price.

[Razor01]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Intel also has no existing designs. They've had access to Kaby-G for quite some time. And Intel demonstrates dozens of products that never make it to market.

 

Same for cars. MSRP is just the suggested price.

Well if they demonstrated, I'm not sure if they did or not, thought they did lol might be confusing it with something else, they will give that design to OEM's for them to look at and figure out how they want to make their products.  But yeah.  Dell and HP probably had quite a bit of time to do their designs.

 

Other companies will follow suit if they find it a viable product in their line up.  For such a product though, smaller guys might not have the money to push such a product.  High cost, relative to the performance the product gets so its going to be a specialty product.  Until HBM costs go down, once that is solved, then its easier for smaller guys to get involved.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

And Intel demonstrates dozens of products that never make it to market.

Well, the thing about KL-G is it has made it to market, just not in the volume that Intel and AMD were probably expecting. Like, I remember AMD and Intel talking about the potential for KL-G CPUs in things like desktops, gaming laptops and more normal laptops as well as what it's currently appearing in.

[Razor01]

1 minute ago, NowakVulpix said:

Well, the thing about KL-G is it has made it to market, just not in the volume that Intel and AMD were probably expecting. Like, I remember AMD and Intel talking about the potential for KL-G CPUs in things like desktops, gaming laptops and more normal laptops as well as what it's currently appearing in.

Well AMD stated it was going to be a premium product only and in places where they will not have direct competition too.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, NowakVulpix said:

Well, the thing about KL-G is it has made it to market

Kaby-G has. The Kaby-G NUC has. Doesn't mean a single other concept Intel has that uses Kaby-G will.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Kaby-G has. The Kaby-G NUC has. Doesn't mean a single other concept Intel has that uses Kaby-G will.

True... like all of those 28W U-series CPUs.

[Drak3]

Just now, NowakVulpix said:

True... like all of those 28W U-series CPUs.

Iris Pro is fairly expensive, and going with a TDP configurable CPU + a lower end GPU can be cheaper just in cost of manufacture, R&D for the different cooling not factored in.

[Kamjam21xx]

1 hour ago, Razor01 said:

 

I think youre makiing up that bar stuff, because you dont seem to kbow the differece between personal property and intellectual property.

 

Everyone should stop arguing about this though lol.

 

Ftr i missed the past couple hours.

[pas008]

I pointed out odms in my first post

Yes wiki links but to give you a clue how things work

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands_and_manufacturers#ODM_laptop_units_sold_and_market_shares

[KarathKasun]

1 hour ago, Razor01 said:

No it doesn't work that way.  nV gives certain rights for use of IP based on what ever is agreed upon.

 

AIB's can use that IP to make products, but those products must fall in the guidelines provided by what nV and the AIB have concluded as fair.  The products solely based on what the AIB did and purchased can be looked as theirs, but the actual product as a whole, IP, is still owned by nV. 

 

The argument of who owns what is what is in question.  AIB's are given the right to make and sell products based on the IP that is owned by nV.  If nV doesn't like what they see their IP is being used for, they can shut down the AIB from making future products.  On going products, only if there is a breach of contract.  Now if nV forces that, they need to have pretty significant proof. 

 

Simple.  If something goes wrong with the GPU, the AIB's aren't the ones that have to fix that right?  AIB's might take the card back, but if the GPU is bad, then nV has put up the cost for it.  If its a reference board, nV has to fix that too, since its their reference.  If its a custom board by the AIB, AIB's must fix that if its out of spec of the original IP.   But if its in spec with the original IP of the board, the cost is split. 

 

AIB's buy GPU's not outright by themselves, they buy GPU's based on certain things that are licensed to them.

 

Look at panda miner, the one and few companies that buy GPU's from AMD outright to make custom components for use for mining.  Look at the quality difference of those products.  They absolutely SUCK without AMD's IP to back them up, they are literally up shits creek.

Those are two different contracts legally rolled into one business deal.  One component is the parts and the other is the support contract.  Where do you think faked cards come from?  NV/partners selling old overstock of chips.

[pas008]

8 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Those are two different contracts legally rolled into one business deal.  One component is the parts and the other is the support contract.  Where do you think faked cards come from?  NV/partners selling old overstock of chips.

Lol faked cards coming from nvidia or partners lol

Hilarious

[Razor01]

24 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

I think youre makiing up that bar stuff, because you dont seem to kbow the differece between personal property and intellectual property.

 

Everyone should stop arguing about this though lol.

 

Ftr i missed the past couple hours.

good for you, and I did explain that, in the post you quoted, we are looking at two different ownerships here.  AIB's don't "own" the products they buy from nV or AMD unless they are expressly used by the contract they are buying them for.  So if an AIB is buying a GPU in the sole purpose of making a graphics card, IP is rightfully transferred (based on what rights the IHV has given) for them to be used for. 

 

An AIB can't make a dual GPU based card if they are not given the right to do so, that is why we don't see AIB's making them.  They don't have the IP rights to do so.  Even if they make it they can't sell it.  They don't have the right to sell it, since  nV or AMD will not let them do so.

 

Its ownership of the IP that trumps the ownership of buying the GPU's.

 

If they make the card an try to sell it, nV and AMD can block the sale.  Not only that they can also say no support for those cards.  The AIB is screwed.  So if anything happens to an end user,

 

AIB's don't have full ownership of what they make, and NEVER will, only what nV and AMD give them as the right to do with their products can the AIB do.

 

nV recently changed their Driver EULA to stop datacenters from using geforce products

 

Geforce products that they bought.

[KarathKasun]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

Lol faked cards coming from nvidia or partners lol

Hilarious

Never said they were partners.  Just said that NV or partners were selling off physical chips with no support contract, likely to shady Chinese manufacturers.

[Razor01]

8 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

Those are two different contracts legally rolled into one business deal.  One component is the parts and the other is the support contract.  Where do you think faked cards come from?  NV/partners selling old overstock of chips.

LOL what?

 

7 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

Never said they were partners.  Just said that NV or partners were selling off physical chips with no support contract.

No they aren't lol who is doing that, can you show me links?

[KarathKasun]

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

 

No they aren't lol who is doing that, can you show me links?

Where would the NV chips on the fake cards come from then?

[Razor01]

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

Where would the NV chips on the fake cards come from then?

Show me links please.....

 

Cause the fake cards I saw were old chips on faked boards and coolers.  The whole card was fake lol.  You can talk that company to court if you ever found out who made them and sold them lol.

 

Remember those fake Intel chips that were out there, same thing.

[KarathKasun]

Just now, Razor01 said:

Show me links please.....

 

Cause the fake cards I saw were old chips on faked boards and coolers.

And where do those old chips come from?

[Razor01]

Just now, KarathKasun said:

And where do those old chips come from?

They were old cards mocked up to be a newer card, all fake lol, its illegal to do so.

[pas008]

Just now, Razor01 said:

Show me links please.....

 

Cause the fake cards I saw were old chips on faked boards and coolers.

Lol good luck with that one

This thread is giving me eye cancer

 

I think many here don't even know the aib/aic history or why they exist in first place