1800x vs 8700k .. New chipsets...

[Squanchy]

Hey all

 

Okay so, I'm building a new rig currently.. Mainly going to be for gaming. Thinking on the 1800x and 8700k. I can get a 1800x for about $300 where as the 8700k I can get for about $340. Now, I understand that the 8700k beats the 1800x in nearly every benchmark right now. However, After hearing that AM4 will be around and be supported with the future Ryzen CPUs, Upgrading the CPU in the next 2 years is something I am willing to do. With Intel I would need a new motherboard later on. 

 

Honestly Kind of stuck, Not sure which to get. Thinking long term.

 

Any opinions would be great. Thanks

[iRileyx]

It's hard to predict how CPU's from both sides will be performing in 2 years, so making a long term decision won't be easy.

 

For the moment though(and likely the next year as Ryzen+ doesn't seem like it'll game better than Intels offerings), the 8700K would be your best bet for mainly gaming.

[dizmo]

Personally I'd go with Intel. Yes, you can upgrade to a newer Ryzen CPU later on without upgrading the motherboard, but by then they'll be what...3 versions in with new chipsets? I'd rather have a new board, and sell the old one while you can still get a decent amount for it. You'll get next to nothing for a motherboard that's 4 or 5 years old. Plus, you get better performance now. Do you really want to wait a couple years for that performance?

[bling]

Just keep in mind that even if the am4 socket will be supported for at least 2 years, there will be new chipsets (one already coming with the ryzen refresh).

That said I had your same doubts and in the end I went for the 8700k, mostly because still to many people are having trouble with the ryzen bios and they seems to be too much choosy about the ram

[AngryBeaver]

7 minutes ago, Atreyix said:

Hey all

 

Okay so, I'm building a new rig currently.. Mainly going to be for gaming. Thinking on the 1800x and 8700k. I can get a 1800x for about $300 where as the 8700k I can get for about $340. Now, I understand that the 8700k beats the 1800x in nearly every benchmark right now. However, After hearing that AM4 will be around and be supported with the future Ryzen CPUs, Upgrading the CPU in the next 2 years is something I am willing to do. With Intel I would need a new motherboard later on. 

 

Honestly Kind of stuck, Not sure which to get. Thinking long term.

 

Any opinions would be great. Thanks

8700k would be my choice. It is hard to look at a chipset these days other than that single point in time. Things will change on the new boards that come out with every generation... so while your current board might support the new ryzen in 4 years from now... the features you are giving up might not be worth it so you would need a new board regardless.

 

Just plan on needing a motherboard and cpu for every cpu upgrade and life will be much better. 

[SeanAngelo]

12 minutes ago, Atreyix said:

Hey all

 

Okay so, I'm building a new rig currently.. Mainly going to be for gaming. Thinking on the 1800x and 8700k. I can get a 1800x for about $300 where as the 8700k I can get for about $340. Now, I understand that the 8700k beats the 1800x in nearly every benchmark right now. However, After hearing that AM4 will be around and be supported with the future Ryzen CPUs, Upgrading the CPU in the next 2 years is something I am willing to do. With Intel I would need a new motherboard later on. 

 

Honestly Kind of stuck, Not sure which to get. Thinking long term.

 

Any opinions would be great. Thanks

simple answer, 8700K.

[Squanchy]

4 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

8700k would be my choice. It is hard to look at a chipset these days other than that single point in time. Things will change on the new boards that come out with every generation... so while your current board might support the new ryzen in 4 years from now... the features you are giving up might not be worth it so you would need a new board regardless.

 

Just plan on needing a motherboard and cpu for every cpu upgrade and life will be much better. 

 

8 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Personally I'd go with Intel. Yes, you can upgrade to a newer Ryzen CPU later on without upgrading the motherboard, but by then they'll be what...3 versions in with new chipsets? I'd rather have a new board, and sell the old one while you can still get a decent amount for it. You'll get next to nothing for a motherboard that's 4 or 5 years old. Plus, you get better performance now. Do you really want to wait a couple years for that performance?

Both of these comments are solid advice for me to sway to the Intel.. I will get the 8700k. 

[Fraser Cow]

I'm switching to an 8700K from a 1700 @3.9Ghz because I'm not happy with the gaming performance. I say skip the hassle and enjoy your 8700K for 3 years.

[This kid builds pc]

39 minutes ago, Atreyix said:

Hey all

 

Okay so, I'm building a new rig currently.. Mainly going to be for gaming. Thinking on the 1800x and 8700k. I can get a 1800x for about $300 where as the 8700k I can get for about $340. Now, I understand that the 8700k beats the 1800x in nearly every benchmark right now. However, After hearing that AM4 will be around and be supported with the future Ryzen CPUs, Upgrading the CPU in the next 2 years is something I am willing to do. With Intel I would need a new motherboard later on. 

 

Honestly Kind of stuck, Not sure which to get. Thinking long term.

 

Any opinions would be great. Thanks

Get a 1700 oc it then wait for Ryzen 2 next year. With increased IPC and Frequency gains you could very likely see intel ipc or more. In my experience I've seen that if Ryzen could clock a bit higher right now it could've been on par with coffee lake, but as you can see that clearly hasn't happened.

[Ebony Falcon]

45 minutes ago, Fraser Cow said:

I'm switching to an 8700K from a 1700 @3.9Ghz because I'm not happy with the gaming performance. I say skip the hassle and enjoy your 8700K for 3 years.

Yeah so have I haha

8700k cleans up in everything 

[AngryBeaver]

21 minutes ago, This kid builds pc said:

Get a 1700 oc it then wait for Ryzen 2 next year. With increased IPC and Frequency gains you could very likely see intel ipc or more. In my experience I've seen that if Ryzen could clock a bit higher right now it could've been on par with coffee lake, but as you can see that clearly hasn't happened.

Current information is showing little to no IPC gains. The only gains are from the die shrink which gives them another 200 mhz over last gen. The overclocking wall is still there though, but the never versions might be able to reach 4.3 ghz.

[Jon Jon]

You don't buy strictly for upgradability, that should be a "nice to have".

 

Personally, I will more than likely just max out my platform once the last generation of AM4 chips are released, but that is a nice to have, and the 8700K wasn't out when I bought my Ryzen build.

 

Get the 8700K!

[This kid builds pc]

30 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Current information is showing little to no IPC gains. The only gains are from the die shrink which gives them another 200 mhz over last gen. The overclocking wall is still there though, but the never versions might be able to reach 4.3 ghz.

I mean Zen2 not Zen+. With 4.3 though if I go off my stuff since I get 163 single core on cb at 3.9 if you do 4.3/3.9 x 163 you get 180 which is close enough to a stock 8600k's single core on cinebench. Zen 2 next year will have higher frequency (probably 4.5 or more) and better ipc on smaller manufacturing process.

[AngryBeaver]

3 hours ago, This kid builds pc said:

I mean Zen2 not Zen+. With 4.3 though if I go off my stuff since I get 163 single core on cb at 3.9 if you do 4.3/3.9 x 163 you get 180 which is close enough to a stock 8600k's single core on cinebench. Zen 2 next year will have higher frequency (probably 4.5 or more) and better ipc on smaller manufacturing process.

I am talking about Zen 2. There have already been leaks around the platform and other good information if you know where to look. Also the core scores don't work the way you think they do. First off this is a 1800x to 2800x comparison. The 1800x will do 4.1ghz with turbo and XFR.  The 2800x will do 4.3ghz under that situation. So even if we go off YOUR math 171 Single core. That is on a chip that will not have any OC headroom at that point mind you.

 

Where as an 8600k will be about 189 single core stock... and can EASILY push that score over 195-200 with overclocking.... even still the 8600k is at 4.3 ghz turbo for a 189 single core clock... the 2800x would be 171 single core at 4.2ghz... so even though this doesn't do the best at showing IPC efficiency we can still see it would be 11-12% stronger per core (should actually be around 15-18%).

 

One of the biggest issues with ryzen atm is that with the current IPC deficit and the fact there is little to no OC headroom form what the high end models can do... it just won't fill the gap in performance.

 

Now I am not saying it will make your game experience bad, but your frame rate will always be lower in a 1080p scenario with a fast enough card... this will carry to the 1440p range when cards catch up to those resolutions. In the end though Ryzen does do a good job at bringing high multi-thread performance to the masses for a great price. If it wasn't for the fact threadripper has such a high VM penalty I would have built a system revolving around it.

 

Hell I even had a 1700x build when it first came out. I wanted it to run a few Ark servers off of, thinking the ST performance would get what I want done, but unfortunately that wasn't the case and I had to go back to using an Intel based machine that could overclock to the point I was looking for.

 

Anyways I am sure Ryzen will continue to improve, but don't expect any miracles for Ryzen 2. All of the gains it is getting are from the Die shrink.

[Fraser Cow]

4 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Yeah so have I haha

8700k cleans up in everything 

I got my 8700k from Walmart in the US for $420CAD after tax so I did pretty well. they're over $550 after tax in Canada.

[This kid builds pc]

3 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

I am talking about Zen 2. There have already been leaks around the platform and other good information if you know where to look. Also the core scores don't work the way you think they do. First off this is a 1800x to 2800x comparison. The 1800x will do 4.1ghz with turbo and XFR.  The 2800x will do 4.3ghz under that situation. So even if we go off YOUR math 171 Single core. That is on a chip that will not have any OC headroom at that point mind you.

 

Where as an 8600k will be about 189 single core stock... and can EASILY push that score over 195-200 with overclocking.... even still the 8600k is at 4.3 ghz turbo for a 189 single core clock... the 2800x would be 171 single core at 4.2ghz... so even though this doesn't do the best at showing IPC efficiency we can still see it would be 11-12% stronger per core (should actually be around 15-18%).

 

One of the biggest issues with ryzen atm is that with the current IPC deficit and the fact there is little to no OC headroom form what the high end models can do... it just won't fill the gap in performance.

 

Now I am not saying it will make your game experience bad, but your frame rate will always be lower in a 1080p scenario with a fast enough card... this will carry to the 1440p range when cards catch up to those resolutions. In the end though Ryzen does do a good job at bringing high multi-thread performance to the masses for a great price. If it wasn't for the fact threadripper has such a high VM penalty I would have built a system revolving around it.

 

Hell I even had a 1700x build when it first came out. I wanted it to run a few Ark servers off of, thinking the ST performance would get what I want done, but unfortunately that wasn't the case and I had to go back to using an Intel based machine that could overclock to the point I was looking for.

 

Anyways I am sure Ryzen will continue to improve, but don't expect any miracles for Ryzen 2. All of the gains it is getting are from the Die shrink.

As you said if we are going by "YOUR math" 4.3/3.9 = a lil over 1.1 and 1.1 x 163 = 179, buddy. All ya had to do was use a calculator. And why tf are you talking about XFR and Turbo when you specifically mention overclocking with the 8600k. SMH. Also, Zen 2 is not the same as Ryzen 2. Ryzen 2 is based on Zen+ which is the 12nm process. Zen 2 is slotted for release in 2019 whereas Zen+/Ryzen 2 is releasing THIS YEAR. fyi the leaked 2700x scores showed the 4.3ghz turbo/XFR not the 2800x.

[FiveNine]

Reading all of this is very funny to me because i remember last year when Ryzen launched every thread was talking how Intel is dead and Ryzen is the future...