FCC orders net neutrality repeal

[Kobathor]

21 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

I think any and every ISP should be 100% free and open to make as much money as humanly possible. For you, that probably means greedy capitalists being anti consumer. For me, that means competitive capitalism being pro consumer. 

So, you'd be fine with ISPs doing under-the-table no-compete deals with other ISPs so they can charge you out the wazoo for 10mbps? You'd be fine with companies price-fixing and pushing back against innovation so they can charge more for worse services? Acts such as laying infrastructure and upgrading existing cables are not great for the profits of major corps, that's why innovation is lacking in the US internet market.

 

Might as well open your wallet and beg the ISPs to take more of your money. But I've already seen in other threads that you'd be okay with that. You already think the internet is non-essential even though the whole rest of the developed world disagrees, and it's okay that you think that, but I don't know how you expect literally anybody else to think the same.

The internet and world-wide-web are beautiful inventions that have and still can further the human race and you're totally fine with companies hurting innovation and people themselves to make a quick buck. Again, it's fine that you think that, but I assume the majority of people don't think it's fine.

[DutchTexan]

39 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Righto then,  What you think is wrong. I understand what you think and it's wrong.

 

Feel free to check the stats yourself.  It's not like they are hidden.

Do you honestly believe adding nonsense to a discussion like that makes your point valid?

Again, you haven't haven't posted anything to support your beliefs, I have listed several real world examples of why you are wrong.  Please don't just keep repeating yourself without evidence/examples and expect people to just take your word for it.

 

 

 

Feel free to check the stats yourself. It's not like they are hidden. Please don't just keep repeating yourself without evidence/examples and expect people to just take your word for it.

 

You realize you have done exactly what you are complaining about? I posted a snip with numbers on it yesterday and you had nothing to say? I just proved why my Supreme Court shouldn't be elected in the last post? Where is your evidence for anything?

 

At least I ask you questions and engage rather than just falsely declare some long statement of supremacy.

 

Is your goal in life to be more governed as time goes on? Yes or No?

 

Do you actually care about ISP's in the US? What does US NN have to do with you? What do you have to do with it?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

So, you'd be fine with ISPs doing under-the-table no-compete deals with other ISPs so they can charge you out the wazoo for 10mbps? You'd be fine with companies price-fixing and pushing back against innovation so they can charge more for worse services? Acts such as laying infrastructure and upgrading existing cables are not great for the profits of major corps, that's why innovation is lacking in the US internet market.

 

But I guess you're fine with that. Might as well open your wallet and beg the ISPs to take more of your money. But I've already seen in other threads that you'd be okay with that. You already think the internet is non-essential even though the whole rest of the developed world disagrees, and it's okay that you think that, but I don't know how you expect literally anybody else to think the same.

The internet and world-wide-web are beautiful inventions that have and still can further the human race and you're totally fine with companies hurting innovation and people themselves to make a quick buck. Again, it's fine that you think that, but I assume the majority of people don't think it's fine.

Yes. I am pure evil and completely alone in my beliefs based off the way you interpret what I say...

 

I have one option for internet over 25mbps. That's bad and I don't want it getting worse!? Also, for some crazy reason, I am willing to pay more every month for greater than 100mbps?? I am just the most extreme...

 

You said innovation is lacking in the US, because it cost money. Even though the US gov handed out enormous amounts of money to fund said innovation/expansion. It's almost like government intervention couldn't solve the problem and a business receiving money without earning it is a negative thing.

 

50 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

For you, that probably means greedy capitalists being anti consumer. For me, that means competitive capitalism being pro consumer. 

 

[DutchTexan]

I'll be back tomorrow

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

 

Do you actually care about ISP's in the US?

I had Brighthoise Networks before Spectrum purchased them. My bill was $132.11 per month for 100/20 for the past 5 years without change (my neighbors have reported the same at community meetings). Now that my account is with Spectrum, I have been paying ~173 and it goes up every month. Much competition since Frontier is at the same price bracket for the same speed. Why should my bill get larger if there’s “competition”?

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, DutchTexan said:

Feel free to check the stats yourself. It's not like they are hidden. Please don't just keep repeating yourself without evidence/examples and expect people to just take your word for it.

 

You realize you have done exactly what you are complaining about? I posted a snip with numbers on it yesterday and you had nothing to say? I just proved why my Supreme Court shouldn't be elected in the last post? Where is your evidence for anything?

 

At least I ask you questions and engage rather than just falsely declare some long statement of supremacy.

 

Is your goal in life to be more governed as time goes on? Yes or No?

 

Do you actually care about ISP's in the US? What does US NN have to do with you? What do you have to do with it?

 

 

Yes. I am pure evil and completely alone in my beliefs based off the way you interpret what I say...

 

I have one option for internet over 25mbps. That's bad and I don't want it getting worse!? Also, for some crazy reason, I am willing to pay more every month for greater than 100mbps?? I am just the most extreme...

 

You said innovation is lacking in the US, because it cost money. Even though the US gov handed out enormous amounts of money to fund said innovation/expansion. It's almost like government intervention couldn't solve the problem and a business receiving money without earning it is a negative thing.

 

 

So you've got nothing but your ideals that you can't even backup with an example.  people on these forums have been telling you that competition is getting less,  the stats from the US government confirm that the average US citizen only has 3 choices or less. 

 

Every Aussie on the NBN has more than 50 ISP's to choose from. That is an example of government regulation working. A live actual example that is not up for interpretation or twisted statistics. I can drop mine tomorrow and choose from another 49 that can and will provide me service.  Can you do that in your free market?  Yes I will take proper government regulation over a free market every single day of the week. 

 

 

[KirbyTech]

On 2/22/2018 at 6:39 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Welcome to Bell Media, How may we steal your money today?

Bell as to be the biggest scam in all of Canada right next to the Ontario government... 

[1re]

F

also 100% LEGAL

[DutchTexan]

On 2/26/2018 at 8:06 PM, ARikozuM said:

I had Brighthoise Networks before Spectrum purchased them. My bill was $132.11 per month for 100/20 for the past 5 years without change (my neighbors have reported the same at community meetings). Now that my account is with Spectrum, I have been paying ~173 and it goes up every month. Much competition since Frontier is at the same price bracket for the same speed. Why should my bill get larger if there’s “competition”?

If it is so competitive, then what are your other options? I have had one option for 100 down and 25 up for what will be three years at the end of my current contract. 

 

 

On 2/26/2018 at 9:00 PM, mr moose said:

So you've got nothing but your ideals that you can't even backup with an example.  people on these forums have been telling you that competition is getting less,  the stats from the US government confirm that the average US citizen only has 3 choices or less. 

 

Every Aussie on the NBN has more than 50 ISP's to choose from. That is an example of government regulation working. A live actual example that is not up for interpretation or twisted statistics. I can drop mine tomorrow and choose from another 49 that can and will provide me service.  Can you do that in your free market?  Yes I will take proper government regulation over a free market every single day of the week. 

 

 

You want more regulation. I want less regulation. We can just stop there and save the rest of our lives.

 

You have done precisely what you accuse me of in every single post you reply with, what have you proved?

 

Texas likes to deregulate often and push for free market solutions. Like I've mentioned with my choices for electricity: 57 plans for my area.

Spoiler

 

It's not hard to imagine ISP's will react the same. It is only natural to cut artificial restriction for small players to enter the game, or exactly what happened with electrify in my state. Which is funny, because that same mindset probably has a little something do with Texas GDP growth, relative to every other state. 

 

As you can see, Texas has a booming economy. Our GDP, which is already larger than your entire nation, is growing twice as fast as the lowest 45 states.

 

Vs Australian and Canadian regulations doing this:

 

Internet should be free from government regulations, because all government regulations can do now is RESTRICT.

[deuZige]

So far, as a Dutch person, i've got no complaints. I've got 100/30Mbit (no limits) for 32€ a month, and that's not likely to change. But i know that if this FCC thing is going to lead to limitations or extra costs in the US the development of non-ISP internet alternatives will go into hyperdrive. In no time there will be mashnet networks in cities and/or other alternative ways to get online, which don't require an ISP, or at least not an ISP which is bound to US regulations and laws. Didn't Elon Musk launch the first of a series of sattelites that aims to provide just that sort of thing??

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, DutchTexan said:

SNIP

 

I see you still don't understand.  I'm sorry you feel so strongly about it that you went to all that trouble to post.

 

But just so you know, the size of the GDP alone is not how you compare economies.  You have more people in Texas so you should have a higher GDP.  If you want to compare Texas to Australia you have to qualify every figure, especially figures used in relation to regulation if that's what you want to prove (which you haven't yet), because your power company example doesn't show competition as a result of regulation.  we only have a population of 5 Million in Victoria, but we have 16 energy retailers.  Your example of power retailers does not prove anything because given the population of Texas, the competition per customer is smaller.   Also it appears I have been working on old numbers, we now have the choice of more than 100 ISP's.  So when you get that in Texas, you can report back.

 

So far I have shown how our regulated health system works better, how our regulated internet works better and now how our regulated power industry is just as competitive (if not more). You keep saying I haven't proven anything but the reality is ignoring my examples is not the same as me not presenting them.

 

Also you might want to look at our consumer law (it's the reason steam gives refunds) or  look at our workplace law and contract regulations, the $9 walmart pays it's employees is what 15yo's get in mcdoanlds as the absolute minimum on a shit 4 hour shift in the middle of the day.

 

 

[NTDaws]

On 2/22/2018 at 4:39 PM, leadeater said:

Wow 4 choices, everyone in my country has a choice of a minimum of 15 and there are a lot more than that. We are a tiny nation of 4.7 million so why do you have less options than I have?

 

If I limit that list to the truly large ISPs then every person has access to 10.

Our ISPs are weird here. Some are offered in just Alberta and British Columbia. Sasktel and Access in saskatchewan. The list goes on.

[Mihle]

Just saying, no regulations is bad, bad regulations is bad, good regulations are good.

Regulations that is only a hinder for small companies is bad regulations in most cases. Regulations that make it harder for big companies to push out the small ones and buy themselves to monopoly is many times good regulations.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Mihle
Typo

[mr moose]

14 hours ago, Mihle said:

Just saying, no regulations is bad, bad regulations is bad, good regulations are good.

Regulations that is only a hinder for small companies is bad regulations in most cases. Regulations that make it harder for big companies to push your the small ones and buy themselves to monopoly is many times good regulations.

exactly, good regulations do not prevent any company from performing at their best, they only prevent companies from using their position to unfairly quash competition and mistreat consumers.