Ye olde PSU, can I test it's condition?

[Legendary Carlos]

Hey,

 

I've got a Cooler Master Silent Pro 500watt PSU that is running on 10 years old. Is there a way to test it's condition, or not?

 

I'm just asking to make sure my old system (Socket 775 / Core Duo 7500 / Geforce 9800GTX) will keep working for a while, because I don't have the funds to get me a new system right away.

[kelvinhall05]

You can either buy a PSU tester off Amazon or Newegg, or you can hook it up and see if it starts smoking.

[nickyteddy]

If I were you I would get some kind of volt meter and check that the PSU rails aren't exceeding their normal voltages. 

[Legendary Carlos]

17 minutes ago, kelvinhall05 said:

You can either buy a PSU tester off Amazon or Newegg, or you can hook it up and see if it starts smoking.

Well, no smoking, because it is in use as we speak, but I never knew about dedicated PSU testers. You're never to old to learn.

[kelvinhall05]

4 minutes ago, Legendary Carlos said:

Well, no smoking, because it is in use as we speak, but I never knew about dedicated PSU testers. You're never to old to learn.

Well, if it's working fine, I bet it is fit for use.

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, Legendary Carlos said:

Hey,

 

I've got a Cooler Master Silent Pro 500watt PSU that is running on 10 years old. Is there a way to test it's condition, or not?

 

I'm just asking to make sure my old system (Socket 775 / Core Duo 7500 / Geforce 9800GTX) will keep working for a while, because I don't have the funds to get me a new system right away.

You should think about replacing the PSU with another one.

It isn't quite 10 years old yet but around 9 years or so.

I woudln't trust a PSU with lower end caps that old...

 

1 hour ago, kelvinhall05 said:

You can either buy a PSU tester off Amazon or Newegg, or you can hook it up and see if it starts smoking.

Those "PSU Testers" are completely useless because they don't load the PSU, only show voltage

[Stefan Payne]

52 minutes ago, kelvinhall05 said:

Well, if it's working fine, I bet it is fit for use.

That one was also working fine a week earlier:

 

[STRMfrmXMN]

4 hours ago, Legendary Carlos said:

Hey,

 

I've got a Cooler Master Silent Pro 500watt PSU that is running on 10 years old. Is there a way to test it's condition, or not?

 

I'm just asking to make sure my old system (Socket 775 / Core Duo 7500 / Geforce 9800GTX) will keep working for a while, because I don't have the funds to get me a new system right away.

It would be best to just boot it up and see if it works, but don't stress the thing with a dGPU if you can.

[PSUGuru]

Eh, if it's not exploding right away, I guess that's a good sign (?). Probably has atrocious performance and bad build quality. If it's 9 years old, then the performance and total wattage output has likely severely degraded.

 

Normally, getting a outdated PSU isn't something I would recommend, but judging by your system specs, it should be fine. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fZyFf7/seasonic-power-supply-s12ii520bronze This is an old power supply and isn't recommended for modern hardware, but this PSU was around and used for systems like yours, so it would be fine. It's around 40$. If you want a good PSU, something that you could use for when you get a new system, then the Corsair CXM 450 watt would be a good choice (2015). It's about 15$ more than the seasonic, but it's vastly superior.

[Guest]

I would never use a 10 year old PSU in a system.  Even if it "seems" to be working fine.

[Legendary Carlos]

2 hours ago, QuantumElement said:

Eh, if it's not exploding right away, I guess that's a good sign (?). Probably has atrocious performance and bad build quality. If it's 9 years old, then the performance and total wattage output has likely severely degraded.

 

Normally, getting a outdated PSU isn't something I would recommend, but judging by your system specs, it should be fine. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fZyFf7/seasonic-power-supply-s12ii520bronze This is an old power supply and isn't recommended for modern hardware, but this PSU was around and used for systems like yours, so it would be fine. It's around 40$. If you want a good PSU, something that you could use for when you get a new system, then the Corsair CXM 450 watt would be a good choice (2015). It's about 15$ more than the seasonic, but it's vastly superior.

Thanks,  that's some good advice I can work with.

 

I've been looking in new PSU's and I already was thinking about thema 550 version, but that would have a surplus of about 150 watts for the rig I hope to build (ryzen 1600 combined with a geforce 1060, so it will be futureproof for a long time). So maybe keeping it at 450 watts.

[PSUGuru]

1 hour ago, Legendary Carlos said:

Thanks,  that's some good advice I can work with.

 

I've been looking in new PSU's and I already was thinking about thema 550 version, but that would have a surplus of about 150 watts for the rig I hope to build (ryzen 1600 combined with a geforce 1060, so it will be futureproof for a long time). So maybe keeping it at 450 watts.

Thermaltake doesn't have much in the way of affordable good PSUs. I would simply just get the Corsair CX450M (2015) as that's the best budget PSU you can buy.

[Crunchy Dragon]

11 hours ago, kelvinhall05 said:

Well, if it's working fine, I bet it is fit for use.

For how long though....

 

Who knows, it might kick the bucket overnight. I've had two power supplies spontaneously die on me like that, not fun.

[WhatTheHell]

I've got a Corsair HX750 and I've been using it for about 8 years now, it also depends on manufacturing too (many poor ones existed on the market) the first day I held this psu in my hands it felt like a quality bit of kit, I will however upgrade my entire system and switch it out in the future, but I can see myself using it again on another build.

 

People have used much older.

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, WhatTheHell said:

I've got a Corsair HX750 and I've been using it for about 8 years now, it also depends on manufacturing too (many poor ones existed on the market) the first day I held this psu in my hands it felt like a quality bit of kit, I will however upgrade my entire system and switch it out in the future, but I can see myself using it again on another build.

 

People have used much older.

Yes and people have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without oil change.

Does that mean it is a good idea?! No it does not.

 

You don't know what the PSU does, you don't know how good the PSU is after all those years. You don't know how the voltages look like.

You do know nothing about the PSU - you just believe.

 

And a PSU with 500mV Ripple works well in a system. And also look at the pictures I posted here earlier!

THAT PSU worked a Week ago!!

9 hours ago, QuantumElement said:

Eh, if it's not exploding right away, I guess that's a good sign (?). Probably has atrocious performance and bad build quality. If it's 9 years old, then the performance and total wattage output has likely severely degraded.

Build quality was decent - good for the time 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=134

 

But by todays standards its something like Corsair VS but worse because it is so darn old. 

 

9 hours ago, QuantumElement said:

Normally, getting a outdated PSU isn't something I would recommend, but judging by your system specs, it should be fine. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fZyFf7/seasonic-power-supply-s12ii520bronze This is an old power supply and isn't recommended for modern hardware, but this PSU was around and used for systems like yours, so it would be fine. It's around 40$. If you want a good PSU, something that you could use for when you get a new system, then the Corsair CXM 450 watt would be a good choice (2015). It's about 15$ more than the seasonic, but it's vastly superior.

A corsair VS would be better because working protection.

The Seasonic S12II/M12II uses a HY-510N that doesn't have OCP on _ANY_ Rail, no UVP for +12V and gets loud rather quickly...

 

For what you get, you pay just way too much and a Corsair VS, be quiet System Power for example would do the job as well...

[Blademaster91]

13 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes and people have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without oil change.

Does that mean it is a good idea?! No it does not.

 

You don't know what the PSU does, you don't know how good the PSU is after all those years. You don't know how the voltages look like.

You do know nothing about the PSU - you just believe.

 

And a PSU with 500mV Ripple works well in a system. And also look at the pictures I posted here earlier!

THAT PSU worked a Week ago!!

Build quality was decent - good for the time 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=134

 

Can't compare engine oil to a PSU,unless you're implying people should change theirs out at least once a year. If the HX750 works for them for 8 years,they shouldn't be scare mongered into buying a new one. Thats the nice part about going with more than you need on a PSU,the less you're stressing it chances are it lasts longer.

The psu you posted pics was bound to blow up sometime as it had leaky chineseium caps in it.

I used a Corsair TX650 in several builds until the fan got noisy after 4 years,and RMA'ed it for an RM650,it never exploded either after 4 years. Also seems like you're implying like we should all go out and buy a $3,000 oscilloscope to test our power supplies for ripple? A PSU either works or it doesn't.

[Stefan Payne]

21 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Can't compare engine oil to a PSU,unless you're implying people should change theirs out at least once a year.

Yes, because that's not something you want to hear. So because of that it is false, right?

What I'm saying is that both, old oil and old PSUs can cause some serious damage because of the age and chemical aging.

 

And if the caps are leaking then the voltage can damage components. And you don't see or feel that without the neccessary test equipment.

 

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If the HX750 works for them for 8 years,they shouldn't be scare mongered into buying a new one. Thats the nice part about going with more than you need on a PSU,the less you're stressing it chances are it lasts longer.

Its not that easy. And you don't know how the caps are stressed at all.

Because they are used for filtering and have to endure ripplecurrent even without load. And with modern components it gets worse. Because the components can also cause the caps to fail..

 

 

 

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The psu you posted pics was bound to blow up sometime as it had leaky chineseium caps in it.

Oh great.

Avoiding the facts. It never ever happened that "Wapanese caps" failed, right?

Oh wait, there is:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Imac-G5-DIY-capacitors-repair/

 

Again, you can't know how long the caps might or might not last because you don't know enough to even take an educated guess...

And in the last 8 Years there was Haswell, there was Kepler + Maxwell.

 

Both changed the way components used power enormous - because of the new power saving mechanisms!
Because of the 'Race to idle' conditions they are trained to do. 

 

And that stresses the PSU even more and with an old PSU that isn't made to endure that shit, it can seriously damage the components.

Its not just that the PSU is old and might or might not be damaged. Its also that the components that change the whole picture. Something you ignore.

 

You don't want old 15W40 oil in a modern engine at all - they are not built for it.

Also you can't use the normal 0W-30 oil modern engines use in old ones either. 

Its about the same with ATX PSU.

You can not use old ATX PSU with modern components.

And you can't really use modern ATX PSU with old components - because rails are missing and the switch from +5V load to +12V load.

 

Quote

I used a Corsair TX650 in several builds until the fan got noisy after 4 years,and RMA'ed it for an RM650,it never exploded either after 4 years. Also seems like you're implying like we should all go out and buy a $3,000 oscilloscope to test our power supplies for ripple? A PSU either works or it doesn't.

1. there are some good Osciloscopes for 50€ or less. Because all you need is 20MHz. No more, no less. That is the ATX spec for an osciloscope: 20MHz bandwith. If you have a 500MHz you have to limit the bandwith to 20MHz because of that.

2. You need some loads as well. Resistors or lamps should be somewhat OK.

 

3. Why are you ignoring everything that does NOT fit your narrative?!
Because your last sentence is a lie. And I prove you wrong before you posted it!

So you had to know that there are PSU that seem to work fine but are not.

And that is something you totally ignored...

 

They seem to be fine but are NOT!

PC Components are rather tolerant against awful voltage quality. Even with 500mv-1V Ripple, most components will still work fine. But that _WILL_ damage the components due to higher than necessary stress. 

[Blademaster91]

Nope, I can't even take you seriously when you grab at straws by trying to prove your point with an old garbage Apple pc that ran too hot anyway,and in the few years that every cap did prematurely so hardly an argument today,and telling the average user to go buy a scope and risk their safety poking around in the PSU. Not to mention your throwing around a derogatory slander,which you seem to use a lot. Every other tech forum I hang out at would action against such petulant racism. Manufacturers use Japanese brand caps for good reason these days because Chinese caps are still mediocre crap the awful >$40 supplies use. Also,most reputable companies guarantee their PSU's for 5-10 years,if they weren't up to the task for that long,manufacturers wouldn't be taking that liability. Corsair was nice enough over the phone to replace my PSU even though it was months away from being out of warranty,when I honestly could have replaced the fan myself.

 

Back OT to the OP, a good 450-550W psu would do fine if you want to replace it, check out the PSU tier and whitelist.

 

 

 

[Stefan Payne]

Could you stop the Strawmanning and putting words in my mouth I never said and never will say?!

You are almost like that Chick from Channel 4...

 

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Nope, I can't even take you seriously when you grab at straws by trying to prove your point with an old garbage Apple pc that ran too hot anyway,and in the few years that every cap did prematurely so hardly an argument today

Why?!
Because you don't want that to be?
In Badcaps Forum there are some people with failed primary caps - genuine Japanese ones. 

 

And that Link I've posted proves that Caps from japanese companys do fail at some point. And that's what I was saying.

And you can not know how good or bad a cap is by looking at it, because:

 

That's how a leaky cap looks like on some ESR Meters...

 

So you have to desolder the caps (on a Double Layer PCB wich requires preheating) and measure it with a meter. Wich damages the caps, takes an awful lot of time and thus totally impractical...

 

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,and telling the average user to go buy a scope and risk their safety poking around in the PSU.

I never said that they should buy a scope and poke around with it.

I said that you need to have some serious equipment to tell if a PSU is OK or not. 

 

Just looking at it is not enough. And putting in a PC and see if it works is even worse because even that one I've posted worked with those caps a week before I did make those pictures.

 

And it wasn't the PC that stopped booting, it was the harddrive that prevented it from booting!
Because the voltage was so bad that the Harddrive didn't work properly no more. 

The system itself booted without any problems.

 

The quality of the PSU (wich isn't that bad) does not matter.

The quality of the caps do not matter.

 

What matters is what happened. And the system worked. And that might be a problem, don't you agree??

 

Again, when it was replaced, the PC stiill booted and was trying to start windows wich it couldn't because the Harddrive couldn't handle the voltages (sounded like a coffee machine is what some people around that said at the time).

 

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Every other tech forum I hang out at would action against such petulant racism.

1. If you don't understand something, ask the person. Most people won't bash/flame you for that and give you a kind(er) respose

 

2. I used the Term "Wapanese" aka Wannabe Japanese because the caps used in PSU are most likely also made in China!

They are not really japanese because they aren't made in Japan...

 

And thus most capacitors in ATX PSU are made in china, some maybe even come out of the same fabs as "real chinese" ones. So that makes them "Wannabe Japanese" because they aren't made in Japan. They are made in China.

 

 

 

 

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Manufacturers use Japanese brand caps for good reason these days because Chinese caps are still mediocre crap the awful >$40 supplies use.

@jonnyGURU and also some other might disagree...

And are you saying that the capacitors inside your Corsiar HX are "mediocre Crap" because they are kinda chinese?
Or what are you saying?

 

What you are missing is the spec of the cap and that most Chinese/Taiwanese companys have a couple of series that are below the things the Japanese companys have.

Like Teapo they have the SC and SY below the normally used Nippon Chemicon KZE series. The SJ series is somewhat similar according to the spec sheet to Nippon Chemicon KZE.

 

Since you used that R-Word:
It seems to me that you are the one because you use the Country of origin of the Manufacturer to judge them on quality. You implied that chinese companys aren't able to make capacitors as good as japanese companys. 

Wich makes literally no sense at all

 

And there are some Chinese Companys that seem to be rather decent. Some people speak rather highly of SamXon and Elite...

 

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Also,most reputable companies guarantee their PSU's for 5-10 years,if they weren't up to the task for that long,manufacturers wouldn't be taking that liability.

You don't understand warranty at all, do you?

 

1. The manufacturer guarantees that the PSU is free from manufacturing errors for the advertized time.

2. Wear and Tear as well as misuse and abuse usually voids the warranty.

And also most companys want some kind of proof of purchase these days.

With that knowledge, there are many ways to finance long warranties:

 

a) increase the build quality so that the units don't fail

b) don't increase the build quality and increase the price

 

Because most things the RMA department has to deal with are not defects but user error. People who use the wrong cables (scondary PSU Side), people who send in their PSU because their graphics card/motherboard/CPU/whatever died.

 

And sometimes even with people who messed around with the PSU, opened it up, did some modifications to it and so on...

 

that said, if you increase the warranty period you increase the things the RMA department has to handle because of that (and remember: the RMA Department mostly doesn't deal with defects!) 

 

 

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Corsair was nice enough over the phone to replace my PSU even though it was months away from being out of warranty,when I honestly could have replaced the fan myself.

Öhm...

You totally misunderstand the Warranty...

This sentence proves it.

 

If the unit was still in warranty, what else could they have done?? 

OK, they could have refunded you - minus 10% of the price per year. 
But usually you don't do that, unless the customer asks that.

Because the unit was still in warranty, you got a replacement. If the unit was out of warranty that would have been something amazing. But it was not...

 

5 Years Warranty means exactly 5 Years since proof of purchase.

That means if you buy something right now and it has the date "16.02.2018" on it, the warranty expires on the 17th of February 2023, obviously...

 

 

[Guest]

Chinese caps are typically fine.

 

Depends on the application.

 

Most of the time, the secondary caps in a PSU are Japanese for marketing purposes over any other reason.  "Japanese caps" has the same market cache as a watch with "Swiss movement".