7900x worse than 5820k?

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

gta5
both cpu's stock - 1080ti - 3440x1440 - 32gb ram

5820k
min 78,  max 89, avg 84.967

7900x 
min 55, max 88, avg 71.617

every spec is better on the 7900x and its worse? doesnt make sense? whats wrong here

7900x has 4 more cores, has the same clock speed but higher turbo speed

 

[Princess Luna]

Probably there's an issue software related, did you replace the 5820k with the 7900x? When you did, were a fresh clean install of Windows used?

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

Just now, Princess Cadence said:

Probably there's an issue software related, did you replace the 5820k with the 7900x? When you did, were a fresh clean install of Windows used?

i have basicly just put everything from the old system to the new system so its the same ssds with everything same programs as before

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, MoDRun said:

i have basicly just put everything from the old system to the new system so its the same ssds with everything same programs as before

Then that's your issue, re-using the old Windows install is fine as long as you remain within the same platform like if you stayed on x99 with a i7 6900k.

 

Since you changed it all, chipset and such you're strongly advised to start fresh new with your OS.

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

Just now, Princess Cadence said:

Then that's your issue, re-using the old Windows install is fine as long as you remain within the same platform like if you stayed on x99 with a i7 6900k.

 

Since you changed it all, chipset and such you're strongly advised to start fresh new with your OS.

okay ill try reinstalling a new drive and come back to you if i still have problems after reinstalling

[porina]

The new cache structure of Skylake-X is known to not be as good for gaming compared to older Intel CPUs. It can be mitigated in part by overclocking the cache. Mine goes from stock 2000 to OC 3000 with a noticeable lift in performance. I did testing with this specifically with GTAV in the past, and it is on this forum somewhere, but I doubt I can easily find it again.

[porina]

Found my old test result:

 

[AMGPower]

Fresh install will help. What are your ram settings? Did you install the latest UEFI BIOS?

 

My 7820x makes mince meat out if a 5820k, the 7900x should do the same.

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

13 hours ago, AMGPower said:

Fresh install will help. What are your ram settings? Did you install the latest UEFI BIOS?

 

My 7820x makes mince meat out if a 5820k, the 7900x should do the same.

 

On 02/02/2018 at 11:42 AM, Princess Cadence said:

Then that's your issue, re-using the old Windows install is fine as long as you remain within the same platform like if you stayed on x99 with a i7 6900k.

 

Since you changed it all, chipset and such you're strongly advised to start fresh new with your OS.

i have now reinstalled windows and gta5 on a new drive using the same gta settings and its still running just as bad or actualy slightly worse min avg max 50,60,75 

so really dont know whats the issue. temps seem fine at max 80 on prime95 test etc

[AMGPower]

1 hour ago, MoDRun said:

 

i have now reinstalled windows and gta5 on a new drive using the same gta settings and its still running just as bad or actualy slightly worse min avg max 50,60,75 

so really dont know whats the issue. temps seem fine at max 80 on prime95 test etc

Did you update mobo bios,.September 2017 a new microcode was released to improve performance and reduce thermals. Also what are your ram settings?

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

2 minutes ago, AMGPower said:

Did you update mobo bios,.September 2017 a new microcode was released to improve performance and reduce thermals. Also what are your ram settings?

ram 4x8gb i assume they are running 2166 since i havent done anything with it since i installed it into new mobo

also no havent done bios update yet i guess ill try that but im not sure how it works

also as a sidenote just been testing on cinebench r15 and i get scores between 2000 and 2100 while most benchmarks seem to get 2300+

[AMGPower]

Just now, MoDRun said:

ram 4x8gb i assume they are running 2166 since i havent done anything with it since i installed it into new mobo

also no havent done bios update yet i guess ill try that but im not sure how it works

also as a sidenote just been testing on cinebench r15 and i get scores between 2000 and 2100 while most benchmarks seem to get 2300+

Oufff 2166, there is the problem. Skylake-x is sensitive to ram speed and latency. You need a kit of 3200+ with tweaked timings.

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

1 minute ago, AMGPower said:

Oufff 2166, there is the problem. Skylake-x is sensitive to ram speed and latency. You need a kit of 3200+ with tweaked timings.

im not gona get new ram tho they are normal speed 2666 but i guess ill just go try that then see what happens 

[AMGPower]

Fix your ram issue, update your bios, and if u don't want to overclock the cpu, at least overclock your mesh.

 

Below is a 7900x@4.8, with different combo of ram and mesh oc

 

 

[AMGPower]

And here is the full Reddit thread:

 

 

[done12many2]

On 2/2/2018 at 5:34 AM, MoDRun said:

gta5
both cpu's stock - 1080ti - 3440x1440 - 32gb ram

5820k
min 78,  max 89, avg 84.967

7900x 
min 55, max 88, avg 71.617

every spec is better on the 7900x and its worse? doesnt make sense? whats wrong here

7900x has 4 more cores, has the same clock speed but higher turbo speed

 

 

 

While stock cache performance can be an area of focus with Skylake-X, it's not enough of a dip to offset the difference between a 5820k and a 7900x.  I've owned both and quite simply, my 7900x punches the old 5820k in it's face all day long.

 

I suspect your problem is elsewhere.  Time for some good old troubleshooting.

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

5 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

 

While stock cache performance can be an area of focus with Skylake-X, it's not enough of a dip to offset the difference between a 5820k and a 7900x.  I've owned both and quite simply, my 7900x punches the old 5820k in it's face all day long.

 

I suspect your problem is elsewhere.  Time for some good old troubleshooting.

i have no clue what to do next really. update bios i suppose but having no knowledge of how to do it and being afraid of breaking something and also maybe needing to return this stuff i dont know if thats a thing i should or need to do.


suddenly today my fps has been going down more and more playing gta for 2-3 hours

started at its normal 50-70 fps now its 35-45 fps 

any clue?
temps seem to max out at 80 in stress tests, prime95 gets 2000-2100 in score while other benchmarks seem to get 2300+ for some reason

using settings some guy gave me 1344-1344)

(cpu frequency in occt = 3600MHz)
 

[-rascal-]

40 minutes ago, MoDRun said:

i have no clue what to do next really. update bios i suppose but having no knowledge of how to do it and being afraid of breaking something and also maybe needing to return this stuff i dont know if thats a thing i should or need to do.


suddenly today my fps has been going down more and more playing gta for 2-3 hours

started at its normal 50-70 fps now its 35-45 fps 

any clue?
temps seem to max out at 80 in stress tests, prime95 gets 2000-2100 in score while other benchmarks seem to get 2300+ for some reason

using settings some guy gave me 1344-1344)

(cpu frequency in occt = 3600MHz)
 

 

Update the BIOS; follow the instructions outlined in the ASUS Rampage VI Extreme motherboard manual.

Refer to Section 3.11.2 - ASUS ESZ Flash 3 on page 3-27.

 

To be on the safer side, update the BIOS using the conventional "BIOS ROM on the USB stick" method.

 

Don't worry, ASUS has put a fail-safe in place -- especially for their high-end motherboards.

If your BIOS does get corrupted, your motherboard is not lost; it can be recovered using ASUS CrashFree BIOS 3.

Section 3.11.3 - ASUS CrashFree BIOS 3 on page 3-29.

 

You can find the least BIOS download from ASUS's website, under Support >>  BIOS & Firmware.

Latest BIOS version is 1102, 2018/01/17 ...which should include the Intel Meltdown/Spectre patch.

You can go one older (if you want to avoid the Meltdown/Spectre patch for now), and get version 1004, 2017/12/10, instead.

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/ROG-RAMPAGE-VI-EXTREME/HelpDesk_BIOS/

 

 

Also, make sure all motherboard drivers are up-to-date. Again, they can be found on the ASUS ROG RAMPAGE VI EXTREME webpage.

Support >> Driver & Tools >> Windows 10

 

 

Spoiler

Man, coming from X99, and using a top-tier ASSU ROG X299 motherboard, but don't know how to update BIOS?

C'mon man! Weeaaaak!

Where is your inner PCMasterRace?

 

 

[AMGPower]

2 hours ago, MoDRun said:

i have no clue what to do next really. update bios i suppose but having no knowledge of how to do it and being afraid of breaking something and also maybe needing to return this stuff i dont know if thats a thing i should or need to do.


suddenly today my fps has been going down more and more playing gta for 2-3 hours

started at its normal 50-70 fps now its 35-45 fps 

any clue?
temps seem to max out at 80 in stress tests, prime95 gets 2000-2100 in score while other benchmarks seem to get 2300+ for some reason

using settings some guy gave me 1344-1344)

(cpu frequency in occt = 3600MHz)
 

The main issue is your ram speed and latency and you may be phantom throttling. If you do not want to play with the bios/update ram I would advise to return the x299 stuff and get a 8700k. The x299 platform needs to be played with to get its full potential, while z370 is just install and go.

 

 

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

11 hours ago, AMGPower said:

The main issue is your ram speed and latency and you may be phantom throttling. If you do not want to play with the bios/update ram I would advise to return the x299 stuff and get a 8700k. The x299 platform needs to be played with to get its full potential, while z370 is just install and go.

 

 

Not super sure how phantom throttling works/means but it maxes out on 80c when on prime 95 benchmark and goes to 85 if i start 2 benchmarks at the same time.
Also when playing gta alone im just 50c so im not sure how that would be trottling.
If you know anything i can do to try fix/show this invisible issue it would be great but i rather not watercool my 7900x just yet just for testing altho if that is the only way then so be it.


Anyway lets say if i were to buy ram - scroll down on this page http://zadak511.com/product_info.html?pro_sn=3#home 
and look at the ram specs, would you say any and which of these speeds would be a good choice?

I dont understand how timings work so i dont really know if the timings are any good and how much it matters


Reason i dont really wanna buy ram is because half my build is based upon using avexir tesla ram and they dont have higher speeds and i really dont feel like selling my currentstuff and buying expensive ram that wont fit the build theme. The zadak ram is pretty much the only ram i could consider If i can even get hold of it i hear its pretty limited not released properly yet.


on the subject of bios i might attempt to do the bios install today if i can understand how it works 

[Taf the Ghost]

@MoDRun

 

There's significant changes between Haswell-E and Skylake-X in the way Cores are allowed to communicate with each other. In a lot of older, DX11 titles, expect Skylake-X to be slower than either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E at the same clock speeds. Some games won't show the issue, while others will get hit hard by it. (There's also some side issues with Nvidia's DX12 implementation that can crop up as well.) This is just the nature of the way a lot of games operate and the way advances in the Tech to handle other cases negatively effects certain games.

 

As for troubleshooting, I'd start with the normal approach in this sort of thing. If you've been tweaking settings and having problems, I'd reset the BIOS to default, then reinstall Windows. After you have a stable baseline, that's when you should probably update the BIOS. Make sure that's stable, then I'd start tweaking RAM settings. I've never done any Skylake-X overclocking, so I can't give any pointers on that one.

 

 

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

34 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

@MoDRun

 

There's significant changes between Haswell-E and Skylake-X in the way Cores are allowed to communicate with each other. In a lot of older, DX11 titles, expect Skylake-X to be slower than either Haswell-E or Broadwell-E at the same clock speeds. Some games won't show the issue, while others will get hit hard by it. (There's also some side issues with Nvidia's DX12 implementation that can crop up as well.) This is just the nature of the way a lot of games operate and the way advances in the Tech to handle other cases negatively effects certain games.

 

As for troubleshooting, I'd start with the normal approach in this sort of thing. If you've been tweaking settings and having problems, I'd reset the BIOS to default, then reinstall Windows. After you have a stable baseline, that's when you should probably update the BIOS. Make sure that's stable, then I'd start tweaking RAM settings. I've never done any Skylake-X overclocking, so I can't give any pointers on that one.

 

 

@Taf the Ghost

My issue is this:
i couldnt find direct benchmark comparisons of 5820k vs 7900x in gta but i did find 5820k vs 7700k and 7700k vs 7900x
and since 7700k beat 5820k and 7900x beat 7700k logic says 7900x is better than 5820k.
This is why im super confused.

firstly thanks for explaining the first section about differences of how the cpu works, helps to know.

I am currently on the bios the board arrived to me with. i dont know if this is what you mean by default.
I reinstalled windows on a completely new drive alone in the case aswell as reinstalling gta5 on the drive so there doesnt seem theres any issues around that as it performed about the same as it did on the old windows/drive/game installation.
I know the avg min max fps im supposed to get in gta5 from using the fraps benchmark recorder from both the old 5820k and 7900x right after rebuilding and after reinstalling.

So if i understood your message correctly now i should update bios, then re test gta benchmarks, then if i can understand how ram settings in bios works have a go at overclocking them over its known rated speeds of 2666?

[AMGPower]

3 hours ago, MoDRun said:

@Taf the Ghost

My issue is this:
i couldnt find direct benchmark comparisons of 5820k vs 7900x in gta but i did find 5820k vs 7700k and 7700k vs 7900x
and since 7700k beat 5820k and 7900x beat 7700k logic says 7900x is better than 5820k.
This is why im super confused.

firstly thanks for explaining the first section about differences of how the cpu works, helps to know.

I am currently on the bios the board arrived to me with. i dont know if this is what you mean by default.
I reinstalled windows on a completely new drive alone in the case aswell as reinstalling gta5 on the drive so there doesnt seem theres any issues around that as it performed about the same as it did on the old windows/drive/game installation.
I know the avg min max fps im supposed to get in gta5 from using the fraps benchmark recorder from both the old 5820k and 7900x right after rebuilding and after reinstalling.

So if i understood your message correctly now i should update bios, then re test gta benchmarks, then if i can understand how ram settings in bios works have a go at overclocking them over its known rated speeds of 2666?

 

Can't emphasis this enough, skylake-x is very sensitive to ram due to the mesh structure of interconnected cores.

 

The bios update will help, 0802 (September) is your best bet from Asus, but with ram speeds of 2166/2666 you will most likely not beat your 5820k.

 

The initial tests of skylake-x had it behind in some games compared to Broadwell-E and to some extent haswell-e in certain games. But after the x299 mess was sorted out, it is now quicker than last gen extreme processors in majority of scenarios (take a look at digital foundries test of x299) at stock clocks, and blows past them when both are overclocked.

 

Update your bios and set your xmp profile to at least have the ram run at 2666, then re-test. The gap will close, but the ram is still too slow.

 

 

 

 

[Offline Research Kangaroo]

19 hours ago, AMGPower said:

 

Can't emphasis this enough, skylake-x is very sensitive to ram due to the mesh structure of interconnected cores.

 

The bios update will help, 0802 (September) is your best bet from Asus, but with ram speeds of 2166/2666 you will most likely not beat your 5820k.

 

The initial tests of skylake-x had it behind in some games compared to Broadwell-E and to some extent haswell-e in certain games. But after the x299 mess was sorted out, it is now quicker than last gen extreme processors in majority of scenarios (take a look at digital foundries test of x299) at stock clocks, and blows past them when both are overclocked.

 

Update your bios and set your xmp profile to at least have the ram run at 2666, then re-test. The gap will close, but the ram is still too slow.

 

 

 

 

I updated to the latest bios Version 1102, and put xmp and speed on 2666.
Redid GTA testing and i guess it might be slightly better by like max 5 fps

Now just wondering if the ram link below with 3866mhz cas 18-22-22-42 is a good one to go with
http://zadak511.com/product_info.html?pro_sn=3#home


I got hold of some 4000mhz CL19 - 19-23-23-45 test ram just to test before i buy the ram linkabove if it works.
4000mhz test ram : https://www.komplett.no/product/945645/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/minnebrikker/corsair-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-4000mhz-32gb?offerId=KOMPLETT-310-945645#


+ picture of some ram stuffs if it helps.

[AMGPower]

7 hours ago, MoDRun said:

I updated to the latest bios Version 1102, and put xmp and speed on 2666.
Redid GTA testing and i guess it might be slightly better by like max 5 fps

Now just wondering if the ram link below with 3866mhz cas 18-22-22-42 is a good one to go with
http://zadak511.com/product_info.html?pro_sn=3#home


I got hold of some 4000mhz CL19 - 19-23-23-45 test ram just to test before i buy the ram linkabove if it works.
4000mhz test ram : https://www.komplett.no/product/945645/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/minnebrikker/corsair-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-4000mhz-32gb?offerId=KOMPLETT-310-945645#


+ picture of some ram stuffs if it helps.

Install the 4000 MHz ram then test your latency with aida64, if you get under 60ns your golden, if not begin tweaking. Also make sure your mesh min and max ratio are at 32/32.

 

Also I noticed with Intel Turbo core 3.0 while it will boost 2 cores to 4.5, it does not boost the rest of the cores over 4.0 for an ample amount of time. Since I am overclocked I deactived the tool on my PC.