Why is DDR3 so Expensive?

[Alir]

I literally don't want to risk the RAM sticks even damaging my mobo. My cash supply is running short

[Alir]

24 minutes ago, r3loAded said:

After a quick search you could get one of these:

 

Different brand, higher frequency but you need to make on offer because he's asking too much. I would say offer £70 and maybe settle for £80 if he doesn't want 70. I'm almost 100% sure that it'll work with your existing ram and they will downclock to match your fury 1866

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsair-CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R-16-GB-PC3-19200-DDR3-2400-DDR3-SDRAM-2400-MHz/273039571168?epid=215830405&hash=item3f926d38e0:g:5NEAAOSwPkBaZKqy

 

Next one, different brand, different colour (shouldn't be an issue), same frequency, roughly £80

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsair-CMZ16GX3M2A1866C10-16-GB-2x8GB-PC3-15000-DDR3-1866MHZ/112772111856?epid=215838589&hash=item1a41bdddf0:g:6RUAAOSwPkBaZ5ws

 

Same brand, different colour and if you can settle for 1600MHz you could make an offer of £60 maybe

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HyperX-Fury-Black-16GB-2-x-8GB-DDR3-PC3-12800-1600MHz-Desktop-Computer-Memory/253384134392?epid=215869200&hash=item3afedf0ef8:g:YfoAAOSw5ZtaZ1sY

 

I have the Dark Rock Pro 3. RAM clearance is only 40mm. My preference however is for the RAM to have no heatsink or very minimal (such as the HyperX one). That way, I'll be able to install it without removing the cooler which can be a hassle to reapply.

[Alir]

One type of hardware based attack I am concerned about (whether a sabotaged RAM stick is capable of it) is https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/usb-killer-fries-devices/

 

Though I don't imagine this is the best place to be asking these kinds of security questions anyways.

 

And it isn't the most important concern since I'll only be buying from reputable sellers (sellers who have decent reviews - many of which are probably paid) anyways.

 

And my other reason for wanting to stick to the exact same model and brand is so that the RAM sticks are literally just plug and play.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Alir

[r3loAded]

25 minutes ago, Alir said:

One type of hardware based attack I am concerned about (whether a sabotaged RAM stick is capable of it) is https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/usb-killer-fries-devices/

 

Though I don't imagine this is the best place to be asking these kinds of security questions anyways.

 

And it isn't the most important concern since I'll only be buying from reputable sellers (sellers who have decent reviews - many of which are probably paid) anyways.

 

And my other reason for wanting to stick to the exact same model and brand is so that the RAM sticks are literally just plug and play.

Mate, the way you act leads me intro thinking that you got something to hide or you're just "conspiracy theory" freak.

 

It's just f*kin ram, nothing to worry about. Just pay the full price on Amazon and call in the day. The ram I suggested you are plug and play as well, the motherboard should do everything.

 

Man, even ram is quite dangerous to buy these days :))))

[SupaKomputa]

11 hours ago, Alir said:

Can't find it used at a price that is that much cheaper than new. At least with new, I have warranty and a generally hassle-free replacement policy with Amazon. Whereas other sellers would understandably expect me to pay shipping costs if there is a problem. I also don't know just how much they have used the RAM sticks. I will obviously stress test either way, but wouldn't buying new decrease the chances of faulty sticks?

 

 

Can someone answer my questions here please? I might consider buying used....

Get a used ram sticks from reputable brand. Check if the brand offers lifetime warranty.

Check for physical damage, make sure the pins are clean and neat and no signs of corrotions. 
Have the seller give you 1 or 2 days warranty to test the stick.

After you have the stick use memtest64 and do a full check.

If the test passed, i think it is safe to use the chip.

 

It is important to have the lifetime warrantied stick.
If something goes wrong, you can return it to the manufactures.

Like CPU, memory is the second most bulletproof items in you computer.

[SupaKomputa]

10 hours ago, Alir said:

 

I forgot to mention.

 

Is there any risk of RAM sticks that have been sabotaged?

I know storage devices can contain malicious code in hidden areas of a hard drive/ssd (eg. HPA and DCO) and even in firmware (though this almost never happens/only happens when # letter Govt agencies are involved or if # letter Govt agency (or manufacturer) tools have been leaked - Vault 7).

 

So is there any kind of risk involved with regards to used RAM sticks? Security concerns are why I almost never purchase Used tech, especially anything that handles data. Though I imagine the risk with RAM would be nil since it's volatile; I'm not aware of RAM even having firmware or anything at all that can save data at all? Though I often wonder whether it is possible for RAM to be manipulated into saving data onto a separate chip (hence a sabotaged stick) or doing anything it otherwise shouldn't - hence why I generally stick to buying New stuff to stay on the safe side. Though if a RAM stick was sabotaged into such a way it'd be Frankensteinly obvious.

 

 

And if that stuff literally is not a concern, is there anything I need to keep an eye out for before stress testing it? Eg. a damaged contact point, chipped PCB?

Maan you're to paranoid, get a xanax.

RAM is a volatile storage, meaning everything is erased / gone when no electricity.

To write the firmware you need a factory level equipment. I never heard any memory chip that has a upgradeable / editable firmware ever.

The possibility is next to none.

 

Keep an eye on physical damage.

Damaged contact point can be seen directly and its the most common.

Make sure the contact point still has some gold plating (not faded).

I favor non heatsink one, because i can see anything odd on the surface.

[AT0MAC]

I recently need some replacement sticks of DDR3 ECC 1600 memory and actually ended up buying them from new, as the used prices for that is just ridicules!

especially for ECC modules its getting complicated, as the DDR3 variants is almost not being produced anymore, but many companies still stick with the platform they have invested heavily in so even in a overpriced marked a few DDR3 ECC sticks still is better value than shifting to a new platform.

 

I would guess as markets are now the same can apply to many gamers.

 

For the very same reasons actually I keep my Dominator Platinum sticks for my upcoming 8600K build, even that the RAM is only 2400MHz speed, just because 3200 MHz is total stupidly priced right now. I bought these stick just before prices ballooned

[Alir]

10 hours ago, r3loAded said:

Mate, the way you act leads me intro thinking that you got something to hide or you're just "conspiracy theory" freak.

 

It's just f*kin ram, nothing to worry about. Just pay the full price on Amazon and call in the day. The ram I suggested you are plug and play as well, the motherboard should do everything.

 

Man, even ram is quite dangerous to buy these days :))))

"something to hide or you're just "conspiracy theory" freak"

lool saw that one coming XD. Maybe I'm both?

Seriously though, I'm not a hacker nor an OTT tin foil hat hermit. Though I'm weary of Used storage devices so never purchase them.

 

I was asking whether there is anything in the case of RAM that I should look out for. Eg. you can manipulate a 4GB sd card to look like it's 256GB and so on. Can you do the same for RAM?

There's the risk of malware/spyware (on storage devices). Especially when it comes to stuff from China (almost all "alternative" Android brands you find on Amazon and eBay have spyware). If RAM does have any re-writable storage at all, it is possible. Unlikely, but still possible. Avoiding that risk/doubt is a simple matter in this case.

 

I mentioned plug and play because you mentioned having to tweak settings so they both run at the same speeds. I'd rather not have to do that. I remove CMOS battery at times, having to re-do all my settings in BIOS everytime.

 

As for exploits utilised by government agencies, most of the risk is when those zero-day exploits become known by others (as happened with Vault 7, Heartbleed and possibly Spectre and Meltdown), including your average black/grey hat hacker. So it's not a case of me hiding from the government; they already have me. It's a case of avoiding risk; even unlikely risk if the way to avoid such a risk does not require much effort; such as buying New equipment only.

As for hiding from government, I don't know about GCHQ, but the NSA were known to intercept parcels before they reach their destination and install malware or perform some type of sabotage on laptops or other devices. If I was concerned about government tampering, it would not matter if I was purchasing New or Used, if it's being delivered, it would be sabotaged en-route. 

 

I don't know if there is any risk with pre-owned RAM on the market because I've never purchased one, ever. Hence why I'm asking.

 

10 hours ago, Strike105X said:

I read a bit around the topic and actually i have an advice, sell your current ram and buy another kit with the capacity you need, because its very possible for them to be different revisions compared to what you originally had so their compatibility with your current ram may not be assured, i mean the dual channel working right, i have seen enough changes at times even from batch to batch with kingston ram... Even changing the ram chips.

 

Good point. I don't think there is much I can do though. If I upgrade now, I want at least 2x8GB sticks so I have at least 16GB with the chance to upgrade in future or 24GB in total. In the latter case, I 'am' risking the sticks not being compatible but I think it's worth it; I'll find out during testing. In a worse case scenario, I can just sell my own RAM sticks and buy another 16GB stick, totaling 32GB. 16GB will at least be enough for some extra VMs. Now, I can barely run a browser with my dozens of tabs on Linux without my PC freezing.

 

I'm not going to microwave my RAM sticks like Elliot. That guy just eats money.

 

49 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Get a used ram sticks from reputable brand. Check if the brand offers lifetime warranty.

Check for physical damage, make sure the pins are clean and neat and no signs of corrotions. 
Have the seller give you 1 or 2 days warranty to test the stick.

After you have the stick use memtest64 and do a full check.

If the test passed, i think it is safe to use the chip.

 

It is important to have the lifetime warrantied stick.
If something goes wrong, you can return it to the manufactures.

Like CPU, memory is the second most bulletproof items in you computer.

 

Good idea. Which brands would offer lifetime warranty for used RAM sticks? I don't see why they all shouldn't tbh. But that's irrelevant.

 

35 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Maan you're to paranoid, get a xanax.

RAM is a volatile storage, meaning everything is erased / gone when no electricity.

To write the firmware you need a factory level equipment. I never heard any memory chip that has a upgradeable / editable firmware ever.

The possibility is next to none.

 

Keep an eye on physical damage.

Damaged contact point can be seen directly and its the most common.

Make sure the contact point still has some gold plating (not faded).

I favor non heatsink one, because i can see anything odd on the surface.

 

 

"RAM is a volatile storage, meaning everything is erased / gone when no electricity."

I know that part. What I don't know is what else there is on a RAM stick that can potentially be re-written, such as firmware? Though I have never heard of RAM having firmware or being sabotaged in such a way before. Again, if the way to avoid doubt requires little to no effort, it's worth it imo.

 

A year back, I do recall reading about re-writing firmware. It's true, this is practically unheard of, but governments are capable of this and if they are capable of this, so is anyone that knows what they're doing. Re-written firmware or malicious code in firmware cannot be tracked or detected which makes this such a problem for me. Again, it is true this is highly unlikely. I was just asking whether RAM has any re-writable storage or anything that can be manipulated and nobody is clearly confirming or denying that.

 

---

 

 

As for whether I am paranoid, of course I am. I am moving away from standard Linux distributions (Mint, Ubuntu), let alone Windows and Mac, towards Qubes OS, where most things are virtualised. My reason is not entirely based on security concerns; though that is partly why. It's easier for me than running separate VMs in VirtualBox; which I would find useful. Qubes handles compartmentalisation in such a fluid manner. Add into that, the fact that it's called a 'reasonably secure OS' for a reason. Qubes provides the level of security I reasonably expect.

 

(Everyone) Look into Qubes OS if you have time.

[Alir]

1 hour ago, AT0MAC said:

I recently need some replacement sticks of DDR3 ECC 1600 memory and actually ended up buying them from new, as the used prices for that is just ridicules!

especially for ECC modules its getting complicated, as the DDR3 variants is almost not being produced anymore, but many companies still stick with the platform they have invested heavily in so even in a overpriced marked a few DDR3 ECC sticks still is better value than shifting to a new platform.

 

I would guess as markets are now the same can apply to many gamers.

 

For the very same reasons actually I keep my Dominator Platinum sticks for my upcoming 8600K build, even that the RAM is only 2400MHz speed, just because 3200 MHz is total stupidly priced right now. I bought these stick just before prices ballooned

 

Yeah the prices are absurd. They really should keep producing DDR3 if demand is that high.

[Alir]

Well. Amazon's one-day £10 off offer was expiring so I just purchased the HyperX 16GB (2x8GB) from Amazon New.

 

If you're wondering whether there is any FUD involved with regards to me not buying Used RAM, the answer is obviously. I haven't studied the components on a RAM module so cannot entirely trust them yet. Until I know for sure they're safe, doubt persists. Trying to secure a Qubes installation while not trusting my RAM modules would be silly.

 

I'll post back whether the RAM modules are compatible. Here I am hoping i won't have to remove my CPU cooler and re-apply thermal paste to install the RAM modules.

[SupaKomputa]

10 hours ago, AT0MAC said:

I recently need some replacement sticks of DDR3 ECC 1600 memory and actually ended up buying them from new, as the used prices for that is just ridicules!

especially for ECC modules its getting complicated, as the DDR3 variants is almost not being produced anymore, but many companies still stick with the platform they have invested heavily in so even in a overpriced marked a few DDR3 ECC sticks still is better value than shifting to a new platform.

 

Are you sure mate?

Used ECC ram prices is pit bottom.

You can have 8gb stick only $30. check below (from aliexpress.com)

32 gb for $120, thats 1 stick of DDR4 brand new.

If you have mobo that support ECC Reg, youre lucky...

ECC memory is flooding the market because server farm must upgrade their lineup to get the most processing power with minimum power consumptions.

Only consumers buy used parts and consumer pc doesn't support ECC, high supply low demand.

 

Quote

Good idea. Which brands would offer lifetime warranty for used RAM sticks? I don't see why they all shouldn't tbh. But that's irrelevant.

Almost all big brand offered lifetime warranty, check their website for more info.

Lifetime as in as long as they have some leftover stock (or the lifetime of the product), not your lifetime. This could last around 10 years from initial release.

If you are doubtful with the used memory, just buy them and then return it to the manufacture to claim the warranty.

They will swap the memory with the same or similar product.

 

Quote

I was just asking whether RAM has any re-writable storage or anything that can be manipulated and nobody is clearly confirming or denying that.

The only writeable chip in ram is spd chip, which control speed and timing configurations and thats about it, its so tiny the capacity is so small i doubt you can stuff any harmful program / virus inside.

[AT0MAC]

On 1/26/2018 at 9:52 AM, SupaKomputa said:

Are you sure mate?

Used ECC ram prices is pit bottom.

You can have 8gb stick only $30. check below (from aliexpress.com)

32 gb for $120, thats 1 stick of DDR4 brand new.

If you have mobo that support ECC Reg, youre lucky...

ECC memory is flooding the market because server farm must upgrade their lineup to get the most processing power with minimum power consumptions.

Only consumers buy used parts and consumer pc doesn't support ECC, high supply low demand.

I live in Denmark and Aliexpress is a bad option here because of deliveries usually getting lost in post.

So my market places are Amazon.co.uk & eBay Europe or stores from places nearby, like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands or UK.

 

So yes im sure.

 

As I found out the hard way, most ECC kits are registered ECC, the ones I needed is UDIMMs that are unregistered. It took me a while and a few tries to get it right, also because the motherboards my machines use only allows very specific timings and speeds (I have 2 machines with ECC DDR3 memory).

 

Anyway, that was not the point of this thread

[SupaKomputa]

On 1/27/2018 at 5:37 PM, AT0MAC said:

I live in Denmark and Aliexpress is a bad option here because of deliveries usually getting lost in post.

So my market places are Amazon.co.uk & eBay Europe or stores from places nearby, like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands or UK.

In Ebay also, all used ECC Reg is around the same price.

Quote

As I found out the hard way, most ECC kits are registered ECC, the ones I needed is UDIMMs that are unregistered. It took me a while and a few tries to get it right, also because the motherboards my machines use only allows very specific timings and speeds (I have 2 machines with ECC DDR3 memory).

 

Anyway, that was not the point of this thread

Yes most of them are reg ecc, unreg is about the same as regular ddr. What motherboard do you have that cannot support reg ecc? Are you using amd processors?

[AT0MAC]

14 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

In Ebay also, all used ECC Reg is around the same price.

Yes most of them are reg ecc, unreg is about the same as regular ddr. What motherboard do you have that cannot support reg ecc? Are you using amd processors?

I use this motherboard in my workstation with a Intel Xeon 1270v3, it did not work with the registered modules i had on hand, as its also stated on the specifications page.

I also have a HP Z220 and had a little more luck in that machine but still limited in very specific speeds and timings that would boot.

Anyway, both systems is now working and I don't complain. I just talk about my own personal experience in hunting down aging RAM recently.