Video on ridiculous Cellphone repair prices

[JCBiggs]

Tell you, LTT have never seemed to have a problem calling out people in the past.  How about Call out these cell phone manufacturers on these ridiculous repair prices. I got a note 8 4 days ago. of course I dropped it before I got my case in them mail.  Luckily  I signed up from premium care, and its only $99 to get fixed.  but if you dont its $300!!    And the providers insurance plans are a joke.   These pieces of injection molded curved glass cost less than 2 dollars to make.  They really need to stop ripping people off. 

[DocSwag]

If people are going to shell out the money they're gonna keep doing it.

 

If you did it yourself or went to a repair shop you might've been able to have had it done for $99 or less.

[DildorTheDecent]

It's a huge glass panel with curved edges. It wasn't going to be cheap. Plus the LCD and digitizer are probably fused together so that's why repair was expensive.

 

In no universe are you going to get that piece of glass for $2. Definitely not as a consumer/repair shop.

[nishe1]

8 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

 

If you did it yourself or went to a repair shop you might've been able to have had it done for $99 or less.

I don't think so. I broke the screen in Moto X 1 GEN, it was a smaller display etc, but it was as @DildorTheDecentsaid - screen and digitizer were fused together. When I asked how much will it cost to repair the answer was ~$180. Almost $170 for the screen alone. It was almost the price of the phone... So I ordered the screen alone (without digitizer) on Amazon It was send from Hong Kong and I paid about $20. But it wasn't easy to find repair who would like to do it and the one who agreed said that's risky and he may break something... But I agreed, for about $25, I think. It wasn't perfect but at least I didn't have to put my fingers on broken glass anymore. And he broke speaker or sth.

 

I know, cool story.

[JCBiggs]

11 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

It's a huge glass panel with curved edges. It wasn't going to be cheap. Plus the LCD and digitizer are probably fused together so that's why repair was expensive.

 

In no universe are you going to get that piece of glass for $2. Definitely not as a consumer/repair shop.

I work in injection molding. We make curved "glass" products all that time.  That curved piece of "glass"  doesnt cost anywhere near $2 off the mold.  As a matter of fact, I just ran it though my quote engine, with over priced material at 2 million pieces per year and I could do it for under a dollar each.    Hook a digitizer to it, and your still under 50 bucks at cost.    

 

I don't think you should get for $2 what it cost samsung $2 to make, but  charging $300 to replace less than $50 worth of parts any MAYBE an hour of labor is ridiculous.  maybe im wrong and they arent injection molding these, but I highly doubt it. 

[DocSwag]

5 minutes ago, nishe1 said:

I don't think so. I broke the screen in Moto X 1 GEN, it was a smaller display etc, but it was as @DildorTheDecentsaid - screen and digitizer were fused together. When I asked how much will it cost to repair the answer was ~$180. Almost $170 for the screen alone. It was almost the price of the phone... So I ordered the screen alone (without digitizer) on Amazon It was send from Hong Kong and I paid about $20. But it wasn't easy to find repair who would like to do it and the one who agreed said that's risky and he may break something... But I agreed, for about $25, I think. It wasn't perfect but at least I didn't have to put my fingers on broken glass anymore. And he broke speaker or sth.

 

I know, cool story.

That's a good point.

 

I agree that companies are charging way too much for these sorts of repairs. Seriously, $549 on the iPhone x? But the thing is, I don't think it'll change soon, unfortunately.

[Scheer]

Its no different than every other service industry, you're paying a stupid high labor rate at the mechanic shop for extremely overpriced parts. Honestly I'd say the phone industry is pry one of the better ones to deal with, its insane how much some of the parts for copy machines cost after everyone takes their cut...

 

Honest question, you can injection mold glass? My brother is a tool and die maker, I'm a hobby machinist, and I've never seen or heard of it, nor can I find anything on google so I'm a little skeptical. However you say you do it for a living... albeit quoting "glass". Note 8 is Corning Gorilla Glass, is that what you are plugging into your quote software?

 

Being in injection molding you should understanding better than anyone. You are taking a $50 block of steel and  turning it into a $10,000 mold, that is more markup for sure. When I put it that way it sounds terrible, however, when you factor in the cost of graphite and the machine time on that to make a EDM sinker to cut the steel, cost of the machine to do so, skill level required, and all the other million factors, its not quite as profitable as it looks to begin with. Figure all those factors into your $2 piece of glass and it might make a bit more sense why it costs so much.

[JCBiggs]

48 minutes ago, Scheer said:

Its no different than every other service industry, you're paying a stupid high labor rate at the mechanic shop for extremely overpriced parts. Honestly I'd say the phone industry is pry one of the better ones to deal with, its insane how much some of the parts for copy machines cost after everyone takes their cut...

 

Honest question, you can injection mold glass? My brother is a tool and die maker, I'm a hobby machinist, and I've never seen or heard of it, nor can I find anything on google so I'm a little skeptical. However you say you do it for a living... albeit quoting "glass". Note 8 is Corning Gorilla Glass, is that what you are plugging into your quote software?

 

Being in injection molding you should understanding better than anyone. You are taking a $50 block of steel and  turning it into a $10,000 mold, that is more markup for sure. When I put it that way it sounds terrible, however, when you factor in the cost of graphite and the machine time on that to make a EDM sinker to cut the steel, cost of the machine to do so, skill level required, and all the other million factors, its not quite as profitable as it looks to begin with. Figure all those factors into your $2 piece of glass and it might make a bit more sense why it costs so much.

all those are valid points.    I agree with you on labor rates.   in response to your question can you injection mold glass.  Yes you can.  here is a link to a quick snippet with some info. This article also makes mention of the alternative method, which uses  preforms, but is more expensive. (and I doubt they are using it due to the opticle requirements of the curve and the time requirements per part.)   We don't injection mold glass lenses here for prescription eye-wear here, but I have done it at another company.    

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/2011/07/molded-optics-precision-molded-glass-challenges-plastic-optics.html

That said, what Corning calls "glass" is most likely a thermoset crystalline material that resembles glass, but its probably just a plastic, based on the broader sense of the word.  Basically glass + additives and a low melting point. if you recall, on some of the earlier curved screens, several phones would randomly "crack"  just sitting on the table  with no trauma.  I looked a several of those pictures, and to me it looks very much like a gating point (ie, hjgh stress)  which is what inclined me to believe they were injection mold to begin with.       

As far as material I put in to my cost estimate, I just used a arbitrary figure of $10 per pound, and a part weight of 20 grams, in a 8 cavity mold.    I doubt it cost that much, or weights that much,  The only thing I know of that cost more is some very high end carbon fiber/ kevlar embedded materials and some nylons. none of which are mass produced. 

 

that brings me to the mold.  They are projected to sell 10 million + of these things.  So I have to make 10 million parts in about 6 months. using a cycle time of 18 seconds.  (again, all safe guesses)  Realistically I need a 12 or 16 cavity mold.   So If I'm building a tool for samsung (Im a tooling engineer  btw)  Im building them a class 5, best of everything hot runner tool, probably a stack mold, and then you need to put a couple end of arm tools on the robots.   Your looking close to $350,000 to get that done on the high end.  (most likely they dont use that kind of mold and build several 4 cavity molds at about 50-75,000 each)   350,000 across 10 million parts is  .035 cents per part.  added to the 74 cents I calculated for molding, and its still under  80 cents per glass screen.   And thats with american labor and prices.

 

Im positive most of the cost is in the digitizer, but seriously, do you think they are paying more than 50 bucks for it?    For reference, the iphone 7 display assembly (glass, digitizer, etc)  was estimated at 39.00... an apple doesnt make its own parts. samsung does. 

 

[LogicalDrm]

As with all repairs, cost for actual job will be more than parts.

[AshleyAshes]

Solution: Fix it yourself

Because if you can't fix something yourself then of course someone else is going to try to make a dollar fixing it for you.

[JCBiggs]

25 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Solution: Fix it yourself

Because if you can't fix something yourself then of course someone else is going to try to make a dollar fixing it for you.

again.. you cant buy the parts for less than a couple hundred bucks.  its borderline price gouging.

 

 

[nishe1]

5 hours ago, DocSwag said:

That's a good point.

 

I agree that companies are charging way too much for these sorts of repairs. Seriously, $549 on the iPhone x? But the thing is, I don't think it'll change soon, unfortunately.

They just want you to buy a new phone.

[JCBiggs]

17 minutes ago, nishe1 said:

They just want you to buy a new phone.

no they want you to buy insurance.  when you buy a new phone they have to give you something. when you buy insurance, its much more profitable. 

[nishe1]

20 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

no they want you to buy insurance.  when you buy a new phone they have to give you something. when you buy insurance, its much more profitable. 

It's too late for it if your phone is broken... But you can always buy new phone... with insurance

[JCBiggs]

Just now, nishe1 said:

It's too late for it if your phone is broken... But you can always buy new phone... with insurance

i had insurance. my point is that, if they can fix it for $99 under insurance, they can fix it for $99 out of insurance. not 300. 

[AMDNeko]

9 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

i had insurance. my point is that, if they can fix it for $99 under insurance, they can fix it for $99 out of insurance. not 300. 

  They cannot fix it for $99 under insurance to the company its a loss thats why some companies even charge $150-200. Your going to get a new or refurbished phone and they will have to fix your now old phone for more than the $99 they charged you, refurbish it and then send it to the next customer who breaks a phone. They make money from the people who do not have incidents and still pay the $9~15 a month which is free money for them. I've had my phone without a case for two years now almost and ive never dropped it but it has gotten banged up in the purse..yet I had to use my insurance to replace it when it stopped charging which they replaced for free since it was not user induced damage but with something like cracked screen you are sol unless you have accidentals.

[michaelocarroll007]

6 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

Tell you, LTT have never seemed to have a problem calling out people in the past.  How about Call out these cell phone manufacturers on these ridiculous repair prices. I got a note 8 4 days ago. of course I dropped it before I got my case in them mail.  Luckily  I signed up from premium care, and its only $99 to get fixed.  but if you dont its $300!!    And the providers insurance plans are a joke.   These pieces of injection molded curved glass cost less than 2 dollars to make.  They really need to stop ripping people off. 

 

Many phones just replacing the Glass only is very difficult and not worth the risk for most people replacing screens. Usually the glue digitizer and screen are difficult to replace and put back together without using a full replacement system and those are very expensive. 

 

a S8+ screen is about $300 couldn't find a note 8  that wasn't 500ish  and the glass and tools are $50  and thats just to buy the parts your self.

 

Samsung charging $300 isnt crazy  even if samsung pays $100 for the screen parts labor any shipping  customer support overhead ect. (Screens are estimated to cost $67 for a regular s8 so the Note will be more) 

 

that would put $300 at a similar markup you pay for phones anyhow and typically you make more off accessories and services.   s8 Sold for $750 msrp at launch with a cost of about $300  2.5 times the cost of the phone vs  3.0 times the cost for a screen replacement. 

 

http://www.techinsights.com/about-techinsights/overview/blog/samsung-galaxy-s8-teardown/

 

https://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/news/samsung-galaxy-s8-material-costs-much-higher-than-predecessors-1685638

 

https://www.digitalsupplyusa.com/collections/samsung-galaxy-s8-plus/products/samsung-galaxy-s8-plus-lcd-digitizer-touch-screen-replacement-kit-tools-instructions

 

https://www.digitalsupplyusa.com/products/samsung-galaxy-note-8-glass-screen-repair-replacement-kit-tools-instructions-black-pro-series?gclid=Cj0KCQiAmITRBRCSARIsAEOZmr6sxRXdML5s-ugrQPkwWyBddN1W_9-n2iPgSKkmHIOvpRd_avZ4eqgaAsBlEALw_wcB

[JCBiggs]

8 minutes ago, PPCs-Kat said:

  They cannot fix it for $99 under insurance to the company its a loss thats why some companies even charge $150-200. Your going to get a new or refurbished phone and they will have to fix your now old phone for more than the $99 they charged you, refurbish it and then send it to the next customer who breaks a phone. They make money from the people who do not have incidents and still pay the $9~15 a month which is free money for them. I've had my phone without a case for two years now almost and ive never dropped it but it has gotten banged up in the purse..yet I had to use my insurance to replace it when it stopped charging which they replaced for free since it was not user induced damage but with something like cracked screen you are sol unless you have accidentals.

Do you base your statement on fact or opinion?  we already established the screen prices is around 50 bucks.  and they pay some poor chinese guy 3 bucks an hour to replace your screen, which takes under an hour.  they charged you shipping both ways. 

 

companies don't lose money.  and when they have a deductible like that, you can bet your arse it covers the cost.  they wouldnt give out free months of insurance if they  needed the revenue to subsidize the repair cost.  Samsung had record profits last quarter. 13 billion in  THREE months.   do you really think it cost them over 100 to change your screen?  come one.. use logic. this is the real world.  some companies charge what they do because people will pay it.  like you said, they make money on the insurance premiums.  probably enough they wouldnt even need to charge a deductible. they do so to discourage claims. 

[AMDNeko]

3 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

Do you base your statement on fact or opinion?  we already established the screen prices is around 50 bucks.  and they pay some poor chinese guy 3 bucks an hour to replace your screen, which takes under an hour.  they charged you shipping both ways. 

 

companies don't lose money.  and when they have a deductible like that, you can bet your arse it covers the cost.  they wouldnt give out free months of insurance if they  needed the revenue to subsidize the repair cost.  Samsung had record profits last quarter. 13 billion in  THREE months.   do you really think it cost them over 100 to change your screen?  come one.. use logic. this is the real world.  some companies charge what they do because people will pay it.  like you said, they make money on the insurance premiums.  probably enough they wouldnt even need to charge a deductible. they do so to discourage claims. 

Mostly fact and what I learned working for Asurion. 

[JCBiggs]

4 minutes ago, PPCs-Kat said:

Mostly fact and what I learned working for Asurion. 

Id love to know what asurions actual cost work. (good luck finding that out)

[AMDNeko]

20 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

Id love to know what asurions actual cost work. (good luck finding that out)

  Even Asurion/Squaretrade etc do not get replacement panels at-cost and they are almost always pre-assembled because re-fusing a panel 100% perfect all the time is something they cannot do nor do they care to hire people who can (Roughly 20-30% I would guess) and due to fusion of the glass+digitizer+lcd becoming more refined due to phones getting slimmer its expensive. Then you have to factor in hourly wage of the technician if the device can be repaired in-network which is probably $2-3 dollars over minimum wage and support is not any better in that regard. Start to finish it probably cost them $180+ to bring that phone into inventory and fix it unless it has to be sent to manufacture which can be added cost. because you guys end up paying 24 months of insurance + the deductible its actually more expensive than non-insured repair in the long run and thats what they are hoping for.

 

In the end the insurance company gets a $700+ device for cost of repair or less due to what was paid into plan and can save even more on the next person who breaks their screen and thus the cycle continues... The only near total loss of profit is when the phone is water damaged beyond repair but you may have unknowingly paid 50% or more of the phones value into the insurance plan so it hurts them less because they also get the replacement device for less due to how they get a lot of the inventory.

 

Most plans have replacement limitations in the terms in order to not break the profitability and if you walked into a repair shop locally they probably would charge you $250-400 based on how they source parts for the note 8 specifically.

[JCBiggs]

1 minute ago, PPCs-Kat said:

  Even Asurion/Squaretrade etc do not get replacement panels at-cost (Roughly 20-30% I would guess) and due to fusion of the glass+digitizer+lcd becoming more refined due to phones getting slimmer its expensive. Then you have to factor in hourly wage of the technician if the device can be repaired in-network which is probably $2-3 dollars over minimum wage and support is not any better in that regard. Start to finish it probably cost them $180+ to bring that phone into inventory and fix it unless it has to be sent to manufacture which can be added cost. because you guys end up paying 24 months of insurance + the deductible its actually more expensive than non-insured repair in the long run and thats what they are hoping for.

 

In the end the insurance company gets a $700+ device for cost of repair or less due to what was paid into plan and can save even more on the next person who breaks their screen and thus the cycle continues... The only near total loss of profit is when the phone is water damaged beyond repair but you may have unknowingly paid 50% or more of the phones value into the insurance plan so it hurts them less because they also get the replacement device for less due to how they get a lot of the inventory.

 

Most plans have replacement limitations in the terms in order to not break the profitability and if you walked into a repair shop locally they probably would charge you $250-400 based on how they source parts for the note 8 specifically.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that I think most people on this forum understand how insurance works.  The point im trying to make, is that these thought process that they want you to have that it cost almost half the cost of the phone to fix the screen is ridiculous.  look at the CPU cost, and how much work goes into making one of those.  a screen and digitizer is not on that level.     again, its my opinion that samsung is over charge non-insurance customers. By a long ways. It is also my opinion that the deductiable they change more than covers the repair. (because thats what companies od)  They should make these replacement parts available to the public, and ALL cell phone repair companies and a sustainable and reasonable PUBLICLY KNOWN price, so that anyone can repair their devices without incurring such a significant cost. Just like looking up car parts online, you should be able to with these devices.  And Samsung isnt the only one. They all do it.  and every single one of them is making billions.  something needs to change.  I wish I had the ability to make a phone en mass that was easy to repair/modular.  There is no competition in this arena, and there needs to be. 

 

[AMDNeko]

16 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that I think most people on this forum understand how insurance works.  The point im trying to make, is that these thought process that they want you to have that it cost almost half the cost of the phone to fix the screen is ridiculous.  look at the CPU cost, and how much work goes into making one of those.  a screen and digitizer is not on that level.     again, its my opinion that samsung is over charge non-insurance customers. By a long ways. It is also my opinion that the deductiable they change more than covers the repair. (because thats what companies od)  They should make these replacement parts available to the public, and ALL cell phone repair companies and a sustainable and reasonable PUBLICLY KNOWN price, so that anyone can repair their devices without incurring such a significant cost. Just like looking up car parts online, you should be able to with these devices.  And Samsung isnt the only one. They all do it.  and every single one of them is making billions.  something needs to change.  I wish I had the ability to make a phone en mass that was easy to repair/modular.  There is no competition in this arena, and there needs to be. 

 

 

   There are many car parts that are restricted even for silly cars like a Jetta and require the VIN that matches exact model to order and even parts cost from dealer to dealer vary (markups suck) which is why I  buy my oem stuff from fleabay. I do hope modular phones become a thing I think moto-mods is step in that direction and warms people up to taking it to next level but anywho it cost nearly half the cost of the phone because it actually is half of the phone basically. Display aside the only thing of value is the mainboard and sometimes battery. antennas, charging ports, back panel etc cost nothing next to the rest. The rest of the cost is to pad any potential loss i think

 

 

It does suck though but they are not in it for us

[JCBiggs]

its NOT half the cost of the phone.  not even close.  I would put a weeks paycheck on it that samsung doesnt have more than 40 bucks in a complete display assembly.  they might charge apple out the ass for the iphone x screens, but thats because "why not" its competition. dont help the competition.   we might as well end the conversation there, because we have a fundamental disagreement that neither of us can prove.  

 

[NinjaQuick]

It's an oled panel. It costs quite a bit more than an LCD panel. The screen assembly for the smaller and less specialized Galaxy S8 costs an estimated 85, which is 1/3 of the total estimated BOM for the device itself. Simply adding shipping would put you over the deductible in many cases. Repair technicians and repair/refurbishing centers are not charities, they are for profit businesses. If the technician is a contractor, in tech, they may start at 14-15 an hour, which is double billed to the company they are contracted to, so will cost 30+ in the final cost to the company for the repair. Then you need to pay rent, utilities, and HR/operation general costs and you're well into 150+ dollars. Again, this is a for-profit operation, and sometimes the entire phone needs to be replaced, hence the cost to consumer passes that along. 

 

Oh and want to know why this estimate is 85, rather than just a glass panel? It is all fused in many phones nowadays. And even if it isn't, it is all sold as an assembly, not due to greed, but due to just how it is made and shipped.

 

There is no excuse for having no case on a phone. If you know you are getting a phone, get a case for it, take it with you to the store, and put it on as soon as you start using it.