i7 8700k vs i9 7900x streaming PC(+delidding) question

[Halazar]

So, in another section of the forum I've been discussing with people the build that I'm gonna do in the near future(link: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/852879-3500€-gamingstreaming-pc-theorycrafting-need-advice-long-post/ ), but after all the suggestions received, plus reading other forums posts here, on other forums, reviewing benchmark articles and videos, I've come to the conclusions that:

1. Threadripper is good but still inferior for what I need from a CPU compared to Intel, which is a shame because I liked the "future-proofing" compatibility guaranteed by AMD, and Ryzen just straight up isnt enough;
2.  I need either i7 8700k or i9 7900x, and that;
3.  Whichever one I choose, both run very hot, and not only top of the line air cooling or very good liquid cooling is reccomended, but even delidding has a very good argument in its favour; but is it worth doing it considering all the risks and that it would be my very first time delidding? Or, is it worth to spend 200€ more to go on siliconlottery and get a chip from them, for what? 10°c less and 100mhz more?

But(ts):

1.  i7 8700k on many gaming+streaming benchmarks is shown to cap all of its cores(want an example? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5w3psElwew), and I would have also chrome+voip+various softwares open in the meanwhile, so I dont really want to have my CPU to be so stressed to the point where I can't do anything more;
2.  The i9 7900x not only costs 1k€, not only their motherboards also generally cost more, but they also need these frigging keys(but tbh, I don't really use Raid atm, but with the money I'm spending, I'm kinda bitter not to have the option in the future unless I spend even more money on the motherboard), and I don't know how much a decent motherboard with Thunderbolt 3(which same with Raid, I don't really need atm and usb3 is just fine) and all the other good standard stuff its gonna cost(which means I will probably have to get the cheapest one hoping that its good enough), but the gaming performance on benchmarks are shown to be just slightly lesser than the 8700ks by like, negligible amounts, while the core count really helps with multitas- emh, MEGAtasking(sorry Intel, please let me go now).

So, in light of all this, here are two builds with the two different CPU builds;

 

Spoiler

Nevermind the case/cooler/fans mess in the builds, I will post in the apposite subforum about it; I'm trying to find a good windowed case without fans/with shit fans to attach my AIO, and an AIO with very good raw cooling power/thick radiator, very good quality of the components and overall build but no fans or shitty ones so that I can replace them with better fans(no I won't do custom), but I think I'll have to settle for the fans of the AIO since I dont want to waste 6 fans in money, but if you have suggestion for this case/aio/fans problem let me know!

Also, the video card isn't final; it's just a "placeholder" until I find one without benchmark that show that 1) isnt incredibly hot, 2) doesnt break to the slighest pressure, 3) is overall decent for the price; if you have any suggestions about this aswell do let me know!

8700k:

Spoiler

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core Processor  (€541.00) 
CPU Cooler: Fractal Design - Celsius S36 87.6 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  (€141.00 @ Amazon Italia) 
Thermal Compound: Thermal Grizzly - Kryonaut 1g 1g Thermal Paste  (€9.88 @ Amazon Italia) 
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (€368.28 @ Amazon Italia) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€427.00) 
Storage: Toshiba - X300 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (€163.00 @ Amazon Italia) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB AORUS Xtreme Edition 11G Video Card  (€893.00 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case: Anidees - AI8 (Windowed) ATX Full Tower Case  (€119.90 @ Amazon Italia) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Titanium 750W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  (€219.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Optical Drive: Lite-On - iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  (€16.18 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Other: GIGABYTE Intel 1151 Socket Z370 Chipset Aorus Gaming 7 D4 ATX Motherboard - Black  (€292.99 @ Alternate Italia) 
Total: €3260.18
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-13 03:04 CET+0100

7900x
 

Spoiler

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i9-7900X 3.3GHz 10-Core Processor  (€992.54 @ Amazon Italia) 
CPU Cooler: Fractal Design - Celsius S36 87.6 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  (€141.00 @ Amazon Italia) 
Thermal Compound: Thermal Grizzly - Kryonaut 1g 1g Thermal Paste  (€9.88 @ Amazon Italia) 
Motherboard: MSI - X299 SLI PLUS ATX LGA2066 Motherboard  (€242.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (€368.28 @ Amazon Italia) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€427.00) 
Storage: Toshiba - X300 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (€163.00 @ Amazon Italia) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB AORUS Xtreme Edition 11G Video Card  (€893.00 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case: Anidees - AI8 (Windowed) ATX Full Tower Case  (€119.90 @ Amazon Italia) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Titanium 750W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  (€219.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Optical Drive: Lite-On - iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  (€16.18 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  (€16.99 @ Amazon Italia) 
Total: €3661.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-13 03:36 CET+0100

So, what do you think its best? And do you think the motherboards are a correct match? I didnt pay much attention yet to the motherboards and I know I can improve these picks, especially because of the "The motherboard M.2 slot #2 shares bandwidth with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports." warnings on pcpartpicker, lol. Any suggestions at all?
Thank you for reading this!

 

 

[TahoeDust]

If they were both the same price, I would take the 7900k without a doubt.  Considering the price...idk.  It really depends on how much the price difference means to you.  Do factor in the x299 platform will have a longer relevance than z370.

 

Delidding is 100% worth it.

[Halazar]

3 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

If they were both the same price, I would take the 7900k without a doubt.  Considering the price...idk.  It really depends on how much the price difference means to you.  Do factor in the x299 platform will have a longer relevance than z370.

Money is not a problem since I can get up to 4k€ for this build if I -really- need to ; emphasis on the - need-. If I could I would spend no money on it, but capitalism says that in order to stream videogames I need to spend money first, so I will make the most of this one-time investment and spend the money I need to spend in order to(hopefully) achieve the results I aim for.

I'm not going to buy a cheaper CPU only to get buttflustered by its performance, but I'm not going to buy a costlier cpu for a practically negligible difference. Point is, the difference doesn't seem to be negligible.

[TahoeDust]

They way I see it, they will both perform within an unnoticeable margin of eachother.  The x299 has more room to grow with in the future; Quad channel memory, up to 18 core CPUs, longer socket life...it will almost certainly see another generation of chips and z370 most likely will not.

 

Tough call really.  I'd probably lean towards x299 if money is really comfortable.

[Halazar]

6 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

They way I see it, they will both perform within an unnoticeable margin of eachother.  The x299 has more room to grow with in the future; Quad channel memory, up to 18 core CPUs, longer socket life...it will almost certainly see another generation of chips and z370 most likely will not.

 

Tough call really.  I'd probably lean towards x299 if money is really comfortable.

IF you check alot of benchmarks the performance its actually much better on the 7900x when it comes to streaming and """"""""MEGAtasking""""""""; the 8700k caps all of its cores just with streaming GTAV, and I don't want that.

[LeBigMac506]

I'd grab an 1700 and call it a day.

[TahoeDust]

4 minutes ago, Halazar said:

IF you check alot of benchmarks the performance its actually much better on the 7900x when it comes to streaming and """"""""MEGAtasking""""""""; the 8700k caps all of its cores just with streaming GTAV, and I don't want that.

You don't have to convince me.  I have x299/7820x and would not trade it for z370/8700k.

[Halazar]

2 hours ago, TahoeDust said:

You don't have to convince me.  I have x299/7820x and would not trade it for z370/8700k.

Lol yeah I need to convince myself... I need more input!

[Halazar]

Also; doesn't matter what RAM is used as long as it performs(low cas/high speed/high memory) and the profile doesn't interfere with coolers, right?

[TheEavel]

A friend of mine is streaming in 1080p60fps and could do 144060fps with the 7900x at stock if twitch would let him (capped bitrate). With a separate gaming PC of course. 

If streaming is your job then I would go with the 7900x for the quality. If it's your hobby then go with a beastly gaming PC and stream in 720p30/60fps (depending on the games you'll play/stream). 

[IamODIN]

i say 8700k all the way

 

because of lower price and great performance that comes with it

[Princess Luna]

I mean if we took a single software/application at a time the i7 8700k outperforms the i9 7900x on about every thing, however your multi-tasking gets reduced as you pointed out.

 

I am yet to see my i7 8700k working on 100% usage, but I use Firefox and not Chrome like you so I don't know...

 

Jokes aside, truth be told while the i9 7900x will be able to run all those stuff simultaneously be aware you'll be losing a fair deal of in-game performance, so if you're aiming at 144hz this could be troublesome as the Mesh Cache system on x299 does hurt gaming performance noticeable.

 

Price wise the difference isn't too far I mean sure 400 euros is a lot of money but if you have financial means for it could be worth it for the long run, you'll be well served with both CPUs regardless.

 

On last note, I'd strongly advise against getting a MSi motherboard for the x299 platform especially that motherboard as it has low quality VRMs and power deliver facing something like the Asus Prime-A which will hurt your overclocking potential regardless of the CPU being delidd or not.

 

 

[Simon771]

If you can afford to pay more money for delided CPU than go for it. No work or risk for you + you know what you are getting.

[AMGPower]

3 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

I mean if we took a single software/application at a time the i7 8700k outperforms the i9 7900x on about every thing, however your multi-tasking gets reduced as you pointed out.

 

I am yet to see my i7 8700k working on 100% usage, but I use Firefox and not Chrome like you so I don't know...

 

Jokes aside, truth be told while the i9 7900x will be able to run all those stuff simultaneously be aware you'll be losing a fair deal of in-game performance, so if you're aiming at 144hz this could be troublesome as the Mesh Cache system on x299 does hurt gaming performance noticeable.

 

Price wise the difference isn't too far I mean sure 400 euros is a lot of money but if you have financial means for it could be worth it for the long run, you'll be well served with both CPUs regardless.

 

On last note, I'd strongly advise against getting a MSi motherboard for the x299 platform especially that motherboard as it has low quality VRMs and power deliver facing something like the Asus Prime-A which will hurt your overclocking potential regardless of the CPU being delidd or not.

 

 

An OCd 7900x/7820x (ram/mesh/clock) will fall right between an oc 7700 and a oc 8700k in terms of gaming especially newer games. With more optimization and microcode improvements the gap will close even more.

 

To the OP if you have the money to get a 7900x from siliconlottery, I would go that route.

 

Dont get me wrong, an 8700k is the best gaming CPU on the market and it was my first choice if they had stock available at the time of my purchase, but I don't regret my 7820x at all and would make the same choice all over again.

 

 

 

[Halazar]

The "problem" with siliconlottery is that right now, on amazon.it the 7900x would cost me 992€+ almost free shipping fees; with silicon lottery it would cost me 1,099.99 $, aka 874.341€ for the 4.5 one,with "DHL Express starting from $41.47" - STARTING, I don't know if I will have to pay any more taxes on top of it(Italy has a SHITLOAD of taxes on everything), and I don't know if they will guarantee me the chip integrity with me being in Italy and all of that.
Also I would probably go for the 1,199.99$ 4.7 one, which is 1,028.55€(not bad tbh).

Do any of you guys know if ordering things from the US while being in the EU  makes you pay extra taxes beside the shipping fees? I'm trying to find information

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, Halazar said:

The "problem" with siliconlottery is that right now, on amazon.it the 7900x would cost me 992€+ almost free shipping fees; with silicon lottery it would cost me 1,099.99 $, aka 874.341€ for the 4.5 one,with "DHL Express starting from $41.47" - STARTING, I don't know if I will have to pay any more taxes on top of it(Italy has a SHITLOAD of taxes on everything), and I don't know if they will guarantee me the chip integrity with me being in Italy and all of that.
Also I would probably go for the 1,199.99$ 4.7 one, which is 1,028.55€(not bad tbh).

Do any of you guys know if ordering things from the US while being in the EU  makes you pay extra taxes beside the shipping fees? I'm trying to find information

There's US duties, and I think EU has something called VAT but idk

[Halazar]

9 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

I mean if we took a single software/application at a time the i7 8700k outperforms the i9 7900x on about every thing, however your multi-tasking gets reduced as you pointed out.

 

I am yet to see my i7 8700k working on 100% usage, but I use Firefox and not Chrome like you so I don't know...

 

Jokes aside, truth be told while the i9 7900x will be able to run all those stuff simultaneously be aware you'll be losing a fair deal of in-game performance, so if you're aiming at 144hz this could be troublesome as the Mesh Cache system on x299 does hurt gaming performance noticeable.

 

Price wise the difference isn't too far I mean sure 400 euros is a lot of money but if you have financial means for it could be worth it for the long run, you'll be well served with both CPUs regardless.

 

On last note, I'd strongly advise against getting a MSi motherboard for the x299 platform especially that motherboard as it has low quality VRMs and power deliver facing something like the Asus Prime-A which will hurt your overclocking potential regardless of the CPU being delidd or not.

 

 

The 8700k performs slightly better with single applications its true, but like the video I linked shows, its not that hard to cap its cores. And I really like my multitasking.
Imagine me having various QoL softwares open+a game+streaming AND recording with OBS. This is totally not a fringe case scenario, but a very common one for the use that I will do of this computer.

 

9 hours ago, TheEavel said:

A friend of mine is streaming in 1080p60fps and could do 144060fps with the 7900x at stock if twitch would let him (capped bitrate). With a separate gaming PC of course. 

If streaming is your job then I would go with the 7900x for the quality. If it's your hobby then go with a beastly gaming PC and stream in 720p30/60fps (depending on the games you'll play/stream). 

I'm not using a separate gaming PC do, I'm using a single PC setup. Maybe in the future I will get a secondary machine with like a Threadripper 1900x or Threadripper 2 designs idk.

@ImHyperStyle yeah that seems to be the general consesus, but idk how to choose an appropriate motherboard and what kind of RAM, and if using silicon lottery or not considering all the extra taxes that I'm trying to figure out right now.

[TahoeDust]

24 minutes ago, Halazar said:

The "problem" with siliconlottery is that right now, on amazon.it the 7900x would cost me 992€+ almost free shipping fees; with silicon lottery it would cost me 1,099.99 $, aka 874.341€ for the 4.5 one,with "DHL Express starting from $41.47" - STARTING, I don't know if I will have to pay any more taxes on top of it(Italy has a SHITLOAD of taxes on everything), and I don't know if they will guarantee me the chip integrity with me being in Italy and all of that.
Also I would probably go for the 1,199.99$ 4.7 one, which is 1,028.55€(not bad tbh).

Do any of you guys know if ordering things from the US while being in the EU  makes you pay extra taxes beside the shipping fees? I'm trying to find information

You can order delidded and binned chips from casekings.de if that is a better option for you...

 

https://www.caseking.de/pc-komponenten/cpus-prozessoren/pretested-cpu

[Halazar]

26 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

You can order delidded and binned chips from casekings.de if that is a better option for you...

 

https://www.caseking.de/pc-komponenten/cpus-prozessoren/pretested-cpu

Yeah its giving me an headache trying to figure out everything regarding US import; as far as I've understood it until now, its a 30% or more price difference, so I will be paying around 300€ in taxes... which is not really worth it.

Looking as the caseking site, 1.099€ for a 4.6ghz one, eh.. I don't think spending 100€ more for 0.1ghz is worth it, is it? At least being delidded it should have lower temps even at stock speed, right?

[TahoeDust]

I would just delid a retail chip myself honestly.  You have a good chance of getting a chip better than their 4.6GHz one.

[Halazar]

Just now, TahoeDust said:

I would just delid a retail chip myself honestly.  You have a good chance of getting a chip better than their 4.6GHz one.

Point is it would be my first time and its pretty spoopy tbh. I also would have to order a delid kit from somewhere.

[Halazar]

Yeah, after watching some(many for my tolerance) delidding videos, I find it too complicated/risky for my tastes; I would rather buy an already delidded one for the lower temps, or a stock one and leave it at that if the temps aren't important to keep the warranty, but from my understanding it averagely gets 15-20°c cooler so it would be a waste not to buy the cheapest delidded one since I don't really care for extreme overlocks, even if I would lose the potential to have tame/medium overlocks at like 4.8ghz, correct? I do lose the Intel warranty tho, and I wonder if they use liquid metal in the process.

In the end I don't know if the pros of buying delidded cpus(Lower temps by 15/20°c) outweight the cons(limited OC potential, no Intel warranty, higher price by at least 100€), and if its better to just stick with a stock not-delidded one(Higher temps but cheaper and possibly better OC potential), since I'm pretty scared of delidding myself and the cost for everything needed(delidding tool+silicone or whatever I need to glue the heat spreader back together) would more or less be the same as the cost for buying an already delidded one

also I?m trying to understand what x299 motherboard has the best VRM temperatures but its hard

[Halazar]

Small update; as far as I've come to understand it, the Asus - ROG RAMPAGE VI APEX EATX LGA2066 Motherboard is the best VRM mobo for this chip, at least thats what I've read around and especially here http://www.overclock.net/t/1632665/intel-x299-socket-2066-vrm-thread/960 ,but it costs soooo much and in that thread people are not really sure about it; anybody here that can enlighten me to what actualy MOBO to buy, or how to spot one?

[TahoeDust]

23 minutes ago, Halazar said:

Small update; as far as I've come to understand it, the Asus - ROG RAMPAGE VI APEX EATX LGA2066 Motherboard is the best VRM mobo for this chip, at least thats what I've read around and especially here http://www.overclock.net/t/1632665/intel-x299-socket-2066-vrm-thread/960 ,but it costs soooo much and in that thread people are not really sure about it; anybody here that can enlighten me to what actualy MOBO to buy, or how to spot one?

Stick with Asus if you are going to really overclock.  I would go Apex or Rampage Extreme.  I love my Aorus Gaming 7, but the per core voltage control in the Asus bios is killer.

[Halazar]

damn 450€ tho, I didnt think the mobo would cost me so much, I'm almost going over 4k€