HTC Vive Eclipse in the works

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An updated version of existing one, a completely new stand alone unit. Not much news on it yet as only the patent has surfaced. New Zealand of all places:

https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-applies-vive-eclipse-trademark-new-zealand/

 

Oculus has anounced their Oculus Go standalone slated for 2018. See more here:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/11/oculus-announces-199-oculus-go-standalone-headset/

 

Not sure what is HTC up to and what Oculus Go standalone runs on. Having in mind existing VR solutions are not developed fully yet in terms of software I don't know how good the idea is to create standalone.

[Bananasplit_00]

i cant say im much of a fan of standalone, wireless yes, but id rather have a teather then a shitty phone glued to a display on my head

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2 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

i cant say im much of a fan of standalone, wireless yes, but id rather have a teather then a shitty phone glued to a display on my head

Standalone is a great idea, don't get me wrong. My issue is that VR is not ready for it. HTC Vive and Oculus Rift should never been called consumer releases and should have been in beta stage until a suite of apps are created and integrated into daily OS usage as much as possible. Then we should have moved to consumer release, ideally untethered. Standalone would be a natural evolutionary step after that to take the VR on the road.

I don't know why they keep throwing half baked hardware with even worse software labeling them as consumer releases. Consumer in general is not tech savvy, not patient and not infinitely rich. VR is already DOA in consumer market. Rushing won't solve it.

[Sakkura]

9 minutes ago, edsdrafts said:

Standalone is a great idea, don't get me wrong. My issue is that VR is not ready for it. HTC Vive and Oculus Rift should never been called consumer releases and should have been in beta stage until a suite of apps are created and integrated into daily OS usage as much as possible.

You need consumer hardware for developers to make a suite of apps. Both to have a financial incentive and to have feedback on what works and what doesn't.

 

Describing the current VR hardware as half-baked is itself a half-baked argument. VR can get a lot better, but it's already amazing.

 

As for being DOA, that's simply wrong. VR is doing well. People just had unrealistic expectations of it taking over in like a year or two.

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3 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

You need consumer hardware for developers to make a suite of apps. Both to have a financial incentive and to have feedback on what works and what doesn't.

 

Describing the current VR hardware as half-baked is itself a half-baked argument. VR can get a lot better, but it's already amazing.

 

As for being DOA, that's simply wrong. VR is doing well. People just had unrealistic expectations of it taking over in like a year or two.

I see your point. I am a strong VR supporter myself and I am currently waiting for wireless Vive, no matter specs bump or not. To me that would be a good enough start.

 

However, consumers are very quick to label things like they did with 3D TV. It's a dangerous area to be in as VR to some associates with just that. That's why I would like to see a major push to establish on how we use it and then go on with apps, games and other implementations.

 

I did mention before and I still think that would be an ideal scenario:

You put on your VR goggles and you are automatically switched (proximity sensor?) to VR environment where you sit in your chosen VR space - room, studio, cinema, you name it. You see a VR monitor / screen in front representing your display. You then carry out whatever tasks you need, such as eg. launch the game. Still in "2D" on the screen. When you wish to change to full VR you simply press a dedicated button and you are in. Press it again and you are back to virtual environment.

A good example for this, especially for motion sick but still curious, would be to have this VR toggle from virtual environment to full VR in supported applications as opposed to full VR or no VR. I want to play a game say Mad Max or GTA in full it's glory on massive VR screen but I also want to stop all action and look around in full VR to see and feel the scale.

To me this is when VR will pick up. Until then it's just rushing half baked stuff.

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6 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

there better be a tethered mode. standalone is great, but if I can't use my PC with it then it's just an android smart display.

That's where VR PC master race will have their full spec device and not so fortunate, rich or simply not so interested will be able to get their hands on standalone.

[Bananasplit_00]

34 minutes ago, edsdrafts said:

Standalone is a great idea, don't get me wrong. My issue is that VR is not ready for it. HTC Vive and Oculus Rift should never been called consumer releases and should have been in beta stage until a suite of apps are created and integrated into daily OS usage as much as possible. Then we should have moved to consumer release, ideally untethered. Standalone would be a natural evolutionary step after that to take the VR on the road.

I don't know why they keep throwing half baked hardware with even worse software labeling them as consumer releases. Consumer in general is not tech savvy, not patient and not infinitely rich. VR is already DOA in consumer market. Rushing won't solve it.

VR standalone needs hardware on levels we dont have yet if we are talking headsets, we have backpack solutions that work ok right now. Right now, ANY standalone that wants to have more then a few minutes of battery life in a headset format needs to be basically a phone hardware wise. Untill we have mobile hardware that can power fully fledged VR experiences at 1080x1080 per eye i dont see it as a viable thing to have standalone headsets, because they will be shit in one way or another. Its a better solution to have a powerfull computer running it and either a teather or a super low latency wireless solution so you can actiually have a decent experience with it. I find VR amazing and will probably get one of the new headsets from Dell or whatever if they turn out to be of any quality tracking wise, the Vive is amazing from what i have tried of it, the teather didnt distrube me even slightly while using it so i cant say id prefer haveing a super shitty Google Cardboard experience over how great that was. I have used quite a bit of a coupple of cardboard headsets and the tracking is just shit every time i have tried, it just desyncs after seconds and you have to reset it all the time, takeing away from the experience. you could definatly have that at a better level but the experiences arent that good to begin with because of the hardware.

 

vr porn is nice on the cardboard  while the tracking works tho

[Sakkura]

2 hours ago, edsdrafts said:

I did mention before and I still think that would be an ideal scenario:

You put on your VR goggles and you are automatically switched (proximity sensor?) to VR environment where you sit in your chosen VR space - room, studio, cinema, you name it. You see a VR monitor / screen in front representing your display. You then carry out whatever tasks you need, such as eg. launch the game. Still in "2D" on the screen. When you wish to change to full VR you simply press a dedicated button and you are in. Press it again and you are back to virtual environment.

A good example for this, especially for motion sick but still curious, would be to have this VR toggle from virtual environment to full VR in supported applications as opposed to full VR or no VR. I want to play a game say Mad Max or GTA in full it's glory on massive VR screen but I also want to stop all action and look around in full VR to see and feel the scale.

To me this is when VR will pick up. Until then it's just rushing half baked stuff.

You already do get automatically switched to a VR environment of your choice with an Oculus Rift. It has a proximity sensor so you don't need to launch anything before putting it on.

 

A 2D VR monitor/screen is possible, but in itself that isn't really a good interface for VR. Oculus seems to be building on a similar idea with their Core 2.0 major software update scheduled for December.

 

Not sure exactly how you imagine running Mad Max or GTA in VR. There are VR injectors but that's generally a janky experience because the games just aren't made to run in VR. Or you can run them on a virtual monitor in a VR environment, but that's just not particularly great. A real monitor in the real world is mostly just better.

 

Trying to shoehorn old games into VR is the half-baked approach; what's needed are games built with VR in mind from the beginning. And AAA games take 2-4 years to produce, so you can't really expect those to arrive before 2018-2019.

[Sniperfox47]

7 hours ago, edsdrafts said:

An updated version of existing one, a completely new stand alone unit. Not much news on it yet as only the patent has surfaced. New Zealand of all places:

https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-applies-vive-eclipse-trademark-new-zealand/

 

Oculus has anounced their Oculus Go standalone slated for 2018. See more here:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/11/oculus-announces-199-oculus-go-standalone-headset/

 

Not sure what is HTC up to and what Oculus Go standalone runs on. Having in mind existing VR solutions are not developed fully yet in terms of software I don't know how good the idea is to create standalone.

Just want to point out that nowhere in this news article does it say anything about Eclipse (or Focus) being the VIVE Standalone (which has already been officially announced btw https://www.vive.com/us/product/standalone/) it just says that they trademarked a new name, and pointed out that either this new name or Focus or both may be for their standalone headset(s).

 

4 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

there better be a tethered mode. standalone is great, but if I can't use my PC with it then it's just an android smart display.

Worst case, if there's not, Riftcat has Daydream support on the way in the next few updates, and the VIVE Standalone is a Google Daydream device.

 

4 hours ago, edsdrafts said:

That's where VR PC master race will have their full spec device and not so fortunate, rich or simply not so interested will be able to get their hands on standalone.

I cannot disagree with you more.

 

I have a PC I built specifically for the VIVE, even going so far as grabbing EVGA's DG-87 VR case to keep my tether as out of the way as possible.

 

And then I have a Pixel XL and Daydream View.

 

I use Daydream probably 20-30 times as much as I use the VIVE just because of how convenient it is to be able to toss a headset on and move around wherever I want. Or take it over to a friend's place. Or to work. Or to lay in bed and watch a movie. Or read news. Or watch YouTube on the bus. Even though they lack room-scale it's a much more accessible experience, even for me as an enthusiast.

 

Having played with both a significant amount, I'd honestly say that people who are really into VR should probably give Lenovo or HTC's standalone Daydream headsets a shot when they come out. They'll be impressive if they're even 80% as good as with the Pixel, though they should be even better since they have WorldSense and can use the faster Snapdragon 835.

 

4 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

VR standalone needs hardware on levels we dont have yet if we are talking headsets, [...] so i cant say id prefer haveing a super shitty Google Cardboard experience over how great that was. I have used quite a bit of a coupple of cardboard headsets and the tracking is just shit every time i have tried, it just desyncs after seconds and you have to reset it all the time, takeing away from the experience. you could definatly have that at a better level but the experiences arent that good to begin with because of the hardware.

Modern mobile VR, even the Gear, is night and day difference to cardboard.

 

Between the advent of low latency displays, much more accurate tracking hardware and drift correction, actually having a controller, sustained performance modes for longer sessions, asynchronous reprojection, and all of the other things Daydream brings to the table, it's a million times better experience than Cardboard.

 

Does Daydream have the same level of graphics and power as a PC? No of course not. It's not as good for high end AAA games. But for media consumption and productivity, Daydream is a really strong platform.

 

----------

 

P.S. mid to late next year when OpenXR finally drops, Daydream should also be getting a lot more cross Platform content.

 

Google are a major partner working on the OpenXR spec and have already said that they plan to make Daydream compatible with it. Razer (via OSVR), Steam and HTC (via OpenVR) are also on board for OpenXR support in their frameworks. Oculus is a contributor, but hasn't officially said if their runtime will support it. Microsoft seems to be the only major player who hasn't gotten on board, at least yet, on the framework/hardware side.

 

And as far as content, both Unity (Unity) and Epic (Unreal Engine) are on board as partners and have announced their engines will support it, and CryEngine is rumored to be supporting it later on as well.

[Bananasplit_00]

9 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Does Daydream have the same level of graphics and power as a PC? No of course not. It's not as good for high end AAA games. But for media consumption and productivity, Daydream is a really strong platform.

yes, for this mobile VR is perfect, but thats not what i want to use it for, i want to use it for emersive games and experiences seeing as thats where i think its at its best in a lot of cases even though that part is so poorly populated at the moment.

10 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Modern mobile VR, even the Gear, is night and day difference to cardboard.

 

Between the advent of low latency displays, much more accurate tracking hardware and drift correction, actually having a controller, sustained performance modes for longer sessions, asynchronous reprojection, and all of the other things Daydream brings to the table, it's a million times better experience than Cardboard

yes the cardboard is shit, i know that, but a better mount and a controller wont make my OP2 a viable gameing platform will it? This thing is going to be using phone hardware, the battery might be bigger then the avrage phone, but battery life and the experience quality i dont expect to match a low latency wireless solution with a discrete PC doing the crunching. Its not going to be affordable because you are buying more then a screen with a bunch of sensors and a headstrap and its most likely not going to be especially great either because its going to be a heavy thing if you want decent hardware and decent battery. I just cant say i find the tech to be up to spec yet, anything that can power a decent experience needs more then passive cooling and draws more power then i find viable to have battery for in a headset formfactor. we have backpacks that do a decent job, but a headset its a LOT smaller then that