How to get the absolute lowest input latency possible

[JohnYarowy]

I'm trying to get the lowest input latency I can.  I play rhythm games for fun and 42ms of input latency is very annoying to me.  I'm running an asus vp228 at 74hz as well as a 6600k and an rx460.  The rhythm games I play are very easy on my hardware so I get about 1000 fps and an overall latency from the game itself of 0.3ms.  When I click to the beat in the game and the sound effect comes 42ms later it's very annoying because it's slightly off.  Even getting to half of 42ms would be a huge improvement.  Thanks

[Max_Settings]

To quote from the other post.

 

You are missing the point, you are using the fastest thing you can possibly get. It is good enough for any use ever. You think the people who made the game intended on everyone having the world's fastest keyboard? No. The keyboard you have is probably better than the ones the devs had. You are not noticing 42ms, inhumanly possible, it's placebo. Nothing is faster because it doesn't need to be because the tech needed for the gain isn't worth the money to develop because it's humanly impossible to notice.

[JohnYarowy]

Bro it isn't inhumanly possible to hear a 1/25 of a second difference when you tap and have the sound register in the game...

 

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6 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

To quote from the other post.

 

You are missing the point, you are using the fastest thing you can possibly get. It is good enough for any use ever. You think the people who made the game intended on everyone having the world's fastest keyboard? No. The keyboard you have is probably better than the ones the devs had. You are not noticing 42ms, inhumanly possible, it's placebo. Nothing is faster because it doesn't need to be because the tech needed for the gain isn't worth the money to develop because it's humanly impossible to notice.

As someone who also plays rhythm games and has experienced the difference between a CRT TV sourced from analog (so basically 0 lag) and a flat panel that averaged at least 2 or 3 frames @ 60 fps of input lag, yes, there is a very noticeable difference.

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

As someone who also plays rhythm games and has experienced the difference between a CRT TV sourced from analog (so basically 0 lag) and a flat panel that averaged at least 2 or 3 frames @ 60 fps of input lag, yes, there is a very noticeable difference.

So it's the monitors fault overall then? what would be the best monitor for gaming I could get that has the absolute lowest input lag then? (besides a crt)

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3 minutes ago, JohnYarowy said:

So it's the monitors fault overall then? what would be the best monitor for gaming I could get that has the absolute lowest input lag then? (besides a crt)

Well I didn't say that.  I don't know what's causing it in your setup... perhaps you could start by saying how you know it's exactly 42 ms?

 

Edit: I looked up your monitor and it's been tested at around 10 ms, which is typical for a computer screen and shouldn't be an issue.  Something else must be causing an additional delay

Edited September 15, 2017 by Ryan_Vickers

[Leonard]

The only way to lower the latency would be to increase your refresh rate, 75hz is better than 60hz but 144hz with zero ghosting is way better than both.

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well I didn't say that.  I don't know what's causing it in your setup... perhaps you could start by saying how you know it's exactly 42 ms?

Well I play osu first of all.  I know it's 42ms because in the game there is a latency offset button.  There is a setting where you can turn off effects, which I did, and I noticed I was not getting full score for the notes I was hitting in this game.  I played songs until my average was the same (eg. -6ms to +6ms)  I'm running 42ms latency right now but I can notice that the notes in my game disappear slightly before the approach circle in my game completely closes to the note itself.  I want to play with effects so I want to get this latency as low as possible.

[JohnYarowy]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

The only way to lower the latency would be to increase your refresh rate, 75hz is better than 60hz but 144hz with zero ghosting is way better than both.

yes which is why I want to get a better monitor.  I'm working on buying one atm in about a month when I have enough money

[Leonard]

5 minutes ago, JohnYarowy said:

yes which is why I want to get a better monitor.  I'm working on buying one atm in about a month when I have enough money

Rhythm game?....that is those dance to another dancer on the TV to beat the game or like guitar hero?.....anyway what ever monitor you look to get make sure it has no ghosting or a fix for ghosting called lightboost or just get freesync, also, once you play online make sure you play with LAN and not WIFI. 

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7 minutes ago, JohnYarowy said:

yes which is why I want to get a better monitor.  I'm working on buying one atm in about a month when I have enough money

As I edited in above, I don't think it's your monitor causing the issues.  It's responsible for about 10 ms, give or take, but you can't get a whole lot better than that... maybe 7 ms at very best.  Edit: Just checked, I don't see any under 9

8 minutes ago, JohnYarowy said:

Well I play osu first of all.  I know it's 42ms because in the game there is a latency offset button.  There is a setting where you can turn off effects, which I did, and I noticed I was not getting full score for the notes I was hitting in this game.  I played songs until my average was the same (eg. -6ms to +6ms)  I'm running 42ms latency right now but I can notice that the notes in my game disappear slightly before the approach circle in my game completely closes to the note itself.  I want to play with effects so I want to get this latency as low as possible.

I think you're experiencing lag from other sources... perhaps the tablet you're using? (I assume you use one)

Edited September 15, 2017 by Ryan_Vickers

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

As I edited in above, I don't think it's your monitor causing the issues.  It's responsible for about 10 ms, give or take, but you can't get a whole lot better than that... maybe 7 ms at very best.

I think you're experiencing lag from other sources... perhaps the tablet you're using? (I assume you use one)

Yes I use a tablet, but it's the exact same with a mouse by the way.  the tablet obviously has input lag but it's ultimately tapping the keyboard with the circle to the beat and hearing that effect sounds 42ms later...for example what if I played a game like stepmania, ddr, or osu! mania? The tablet isn't a factor in this therefore.  Any other ideas?

 

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2 minutes ago, JohnYarowy said:

Yes I use a tablet, but it's the exact same with a mouse by the way.  the tablet obviously has input lag but it's ultimately tapping the keyboard with the circle to the beat and hearing that effect sounds 42ms later...for example what if I played a game like stepmania, ddr, or osu! mania? The tablet isn't a factor in this therefore.  Any other ideas?

 

I'm rather confident it's not the keyboard either, no one ever talks about input lag from keyboards so they must be a non-issue.

To be honest, I am kind of out of ideas.  There's only so many places lag can come from: your peripherals sending the message to he PC and it processing it, the PC rendering the next frame of the game based on your input, and your display displaying that frame.  Considering your frame rate is good, I doubt it's the middle thing and we've rules out the other two now so I am at a loss

[JohnYarowy]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Rhythm game?....that is those dance to another dancer on the TV to beat the game or like guitar hero?.....anyway what ever monitor you look to get make sure it has no ghosting or a fix for ghosting called lightboost or just get freesync, also, once you play online make sure you play with LAN and not WIFI. 

Yeah kind of like guitar hero but a different concept. 

 pretty quick video it's a hard song first one I could find don't know if you'll be able to keep up haha.  Also freesync is the same as no ghosting right? also g sync adds to latency right?  By the way I don't play online that much I'm a casual gamer who plays offline

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'm rather confident it's not the keyboard either, no one ever talks about input lag from keyboards so they must be a non-issue.

To be honest, I am kind of out of ideas.  There's only so many places lag can come from: your peripherals sending the message to he PC and it processing it, the PC rendering the next frame of the game based on your input, and your display displaying that frame.  Considering your frame rate is good, I doubt it's the middle thing and we've rules out the other two now so I am at a loss

I guess the only things that could cause it is 1. The PC processing it itself.  2. The monitor has a high latency.  3.  My headphones have a high latency (siberia 200s)

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Just now, JohnYarowy said:

I guess the only things that could cause it is 1. The PC processing it itself.  2. The monitor has a high latency.  3.  My headphones have a high latency (siberia 200s)

wait, those headphones use their own USB soundcard right?  Have you tried it with any other headphones or speakers, preferably ones that go right off the 3.5mm jack?  It is possible that they are introducing some sort of lag

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

wait, those headphones use their own USB soundcard right?  Have you tried it with any other headphones or speakers, preferably ones that go right off the 3.5mm jack?  It is possible that they are introducing some sort of lag

It uses the 3.5mm headphone jack and audio jack, not combined. It has a controller and I don't think it creates latency with it.  I don't remember trying with any other headphones but I will right now (proceeds to go run to my brothers room to steal his headphones)

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Just now, JohnYarowy said:

It uses the 3.5mm headphone jack and audio jack, not combined. It has a controller and I don't think it creates latency with it.  I don't remember trying with any other headphones but I will right now (proceeds to go run to my brothers room to steal his headphones)

I would only expect the possibility for latency if you use the USB soundcard it comes with that tries to do surround, those things can be rather crappy when it comes to sound quality so it wouldn't surprise me if  they added latency too, but running directly off the PC's on-board sound shouldn't have any lag.  I know recording through the mic port does but output is not delayed afaik.

[JohnYarowy]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I would only expect the possibility for latency if you use the USB soundcard it comes with that tries to do surround, those things can be rather crappy when it comes to sound quality so it wouldn't surprise me if  they added latency too, but running directly off the PC's on-board sound shouldn't have any lag.  I know recording through the mic port does but output is not delayed afaik.

Yea this headset has surround sound, just made it back from my little excursion around the house and apparently the only other headphones in the house is a pair on monster dna's. going to see how they work out now.

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10 minutes ago, JohnYarowy said:

Yea this headset has surround sound, just made it back from my little excursion around the house and apparently the only other headphones in the house is a pair on monster dna's. going to see how they work out now.

It's possible there's also some setting in windows that's adding a bunch of processing or something like that.  I can't imagine it would cause much delay but I guess it's possible.

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

It's possible there's also some setting in windows that's adding a bunch of processing or something like that.  I can't imagine it would cause much delay but I guess it's possible.  That said, if the sound was delayed, it would create the opposite feel as input lag so I would think you would feel and notice that if it was the case.

just tried it with that pair directly into the motherboard.  No difference.

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Just now, JohnYarowy said:

just tried it with that pair directly into the motherboard.  No difference.

Well idk what could be causing it.

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well idk what could be causing it.

Would a crt monitor be a legit thing I could use for lower latency on the monitor end?  Obviously it's kind of out there and not really practical

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Just now, JohnYarowy said:

Would a crt monitor be a legit thing I could use for lower latency on the monitor end?  Obviously it's kind of out there and not really practical

They do have essentially 0 latency, but that's a lot of effort to go through to drop 10 ms, which isn't even the majority of your problem

[JohnYarowy]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

They do have essentially 0 latency, but that's a lot of effort to go through to drop 10 ms, which isn't even the majority of your problem

yeah, true.  I guess the next monitor I'll be buying is a dell because I heard they have 3-5ms input lag in game mode, even better than the benq monitors at 6ms.  I guess I'll take a crt monitor uip as a side project in the future just for fun but I guess I'll have to look through the interwebs for a possible solution.  Thanks for trying to be of help! gained some good info!