Continuous Recording on DSLR

[DCWalt]

So the unfortunate truth is because of laws in the rest of the world regarding camcorders, DSLRs are imposed with an artificial 20 minuet recording cap. I have a Canon 7DmkII and frequently find myself in situations where I need to set the camera up and just let it run.

 

Outside of buying a different camera the solution I'm currently looking at is the Atomos Ninja 2 - 4.3". It looks like a great piece of gear for me. it takes HDDs or SSDs, it records in Apple ProRes and it looks like a great little monitor with focus peeking among other things.

 

My problem is, I can't find anywhere what the max record time is. It says with a 1TB HDD it'll hold 22 Hours of ProRes LT footage BUT it doesn't say how long it will let you record CONTINUOUSLY.

 

Does any one know if the Atomos Ninja 2 will record for hours non stop? or does anyone have any other suggestions other than getting a new camera?

[CostcoSamples]

I thought the DSLR limitation was a sensor cooling issue...  But you are saying it is because of stupid laws?  that is just ridiculous.  I wouldn't be surprised if it originated by lobbyist from big media outlets who hate independent media.  

 

Sorry, I don't have anything helpful to say.

[AkiraDaarkst]

4 minutes ago, DCWalt said:

 

The Atomos recorders will let you record continuously, as long as it has sufficient power, doesn't have overheating issues (i.e. using them in hot climate regions) and gets burnt out.  And of course sufficient storage space.

 

The problem is the camera.  Most DSLRs require live view mode to be active for the HDMI out to be sending a proper video signal instead of just replicating what the live view is showing.  In my Nikon DSLRs for example, if I don't switch to video mode live view, the photo mode live view is not a proper clean video signal.  And DSLRs have a time limit, more like a power saving feature, that the live view mode can automatically be turned off if you don't touch any button on the camera (like a computer going to sleep or showing the screen saver after it's been idle for a while) and it isn't recording video to the internal memory card.

[captain_to_fire]

I think you're better off with mirrorless cameras which can record video longer. The limit of 20 minutes video recording in DSLRs is because the image sensor might get hot. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 minutes ago, CostcoSamples said:

I thought the DSLR limitation was a sensor cooling issue...  But you are saying it is because of stupid laws?  that is just ridiculous.  I wouldn't be surprised if it originated by lobbyist from big media outlets who hate independent media.  

 

Sorry, I don't have anything helpful to say.

It's from the EU tax laws where cameras classified as "video cameras" gets charged a higher tax than those classified as "photo cameras".  And the law exists partly to prevent pirating of media (e.g. some one using a video camera to record a TV show or movie).

[AkiraDaarkst]

2 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I think you're better off with mirrorless cameras which can record video longer. The limit of 20 minutes video recording in DSLRs is because the image sensor might get hot. 

Mirrorless cameras can have a worse overheating issue than DSLRs due to the more compact size.  And they can also have the same recording time limits as DSLRs.

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, AkiraDaarkst said:

Mirrorless cameras can have a worse overheating issue than DSLRs due to the more compact size.  And they can also have the same recording time limits as DSLRs.

To Continue on your point if you want a camera that can shoot for hours you need something like a Canon c100 with a good cooling solution and no limit for recorded time. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

To Continue on your point if you want a camera that can shoot for hours you need something like a Canon c100 with a good cooling solution and no limit for recorded time. 

Indeed, if one wants to continuously film using a DSLR using an external recorder one cannot leave the camera alone.  Else the live view mode will simply go to "sleep" and cut off the clean HDMI out signal, so the person has to be pressing perhaps like the info button every few minutes just to keep the camera "awake".  That's why a proper video camera is still better than a DSLR.

[vanished]

15 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

It's from the EU tax laws where cameras classified as "video cameras" gets charged a higher tax than those classified as "photo cameras".  And the law exists partly to prevent pirating of media (e.g. some one using a video camera to record a TV show or movie).

Wow that is really stupid

[AkiraDaarkst]

8 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Wow that is really stupid

It's possible in the future (or has been already) that the law will be modified.  Because the Panasonic GH5 doesn't have the limit, I think.  So either the law is no longer in actual effect/has been modified or Panasonic is absorbing the cost in sales/adding the cost to the consumer.

 

http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/44445-why-digital-cameras-have-a-30-minute-video-recording-limit/

Back in 2006, the EU controversially decided to classify high-end digital cameras as video recorders, which attached a customs duty of 5-12% for digital cameras imported into Europe. The classification was decided not just based on digital cameras' improving abilities to record video through its lens and sensor, but their ability to record direct input from external sources like televisions. A home video recorder tax would theoretically offset money lost from users recording movies off broadcast television or cable onto digital devices, though the EU has never been very clear on the tax's intent. The tax's consequence, though, has been felt in every digital camera user looking to use a DSLR in place of a camcorder, as camera manufactures would rather limit recording capability in software than raise the price of its cameras (or lower their margins).

 

Potentially good news came last week with reports of informal talks between the United States and other WTO countries concerning the expansion of the Information Technology Agreement (ITA). According to Nikkei news, the WTO is considering adding video cameras to the domain of the ITA, which would override the EU's tariff. DSLR enthusiasts are understandably watching this development closely and await the WTO's decision.

[DCWalt]

22 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I think you're better off with mirrorless cameras which can record video longer. The limit of 20 minutes video recording in DSLRs is because the image sensor might get hot. 

 

16 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

To Continue on your point if you want a camera that can shoot for hours you need something like a Canon c100 with a good cooling solution and no limit for recorded time. 

 

11 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Indeed, if one wants to continuously film using a DSLR using an external recorder one cannot leave the camera alone.  Else the live view mode will simply go to "sleep" and cut off the clean HDMI out signal, so the person has to be pressing perhaps like the info button every few minutes just to keep the camera "awake".  That's why a proper video camera is still better than a DSLR.

I can't afford a new camera that's why i'm trying to make my 7d work. I can plug the monitor into an outlet and i'm pretty sure there's a way to turn off auto sleep on the camera. I can also get a wall adapter for the 7d. I don't need to move the camera so having everything plugged in is no problem. if the atomos will record nonstop then it looks like i can make this work.

[AkiraDaarkst]

Just now, DCWalt said:

 

 

I can't afford a new camera that's why i'm trying to make my 7d work. I can plug the monitor into an outlet and i'm pretty sure there's a way to turn off auto sleep on the camera. I can also get a wall adapter for the 7d. I don't need to move the camera so having everything plugged in is no problem. if the atomos will record nonstop then it looks like i can make this work.

Try it and look in the 7D menus to disable power save/auto turn off live view when the camera is not actually recording video to the internal memory card.  I don't have a 7D so cannot test.  Just look for the menu settings, disable them, activate live view video mode without actually recording and leave your camera for about 30 minutes to an hour.  See if the live view is still active.

[cc143]

I had Magic lantern on my eos 50d for some time, and in addition to the video functionality it added, which didn't exist before, I think, although I wouldn't hold myself on that, I didn't really try video that much, that the limitation was on how much the memory card could fit. You also get things like peaking and zebra as well. 

 

Also, I was under the impression the limit was at 29.59 and I'm pretty sure it exists on cscs as well, although, especially if shooting 4k, cscs will overheat way easier and their battery may not take that long of a recording time eventually. 

[DCWalt]

1 minute ago, cc143 said:

I had Magic lantern on my eos 50d for some time, and in addition to the video functionality it added, which didn't exist before, I think, although I wouldn't hold myself on that, I didn't really try video that much, that the limitation was on how much the memory card could fit. You also get things like peaking and zebra as well. 

 

Also, I was under the impression the limit was at 29.59 and I'm pretty sure it exists on cscs as well, although, especially if shooting 4k, cscs will overheat way easier and their battery may not take that long of a recording time eventually. 

buying the 7dmkII has turned out to be a huge mistake for me. among other problems i've had including this one, it also can't use magic lantern which was the reason I bought it. magic lantern is great of the 7d but the community never ported it over to the mkII and has no plans to do so.

[cc143]

Just now, DCWalt said:

buying the 7dmkII has turned out to be a huge mistake for me. among other problems i've had including this one, it also can't use magic lantern which was the reason I bought it. magic lantern is great of the 7d but the community never ported it over to the mkII and has no plans to do so.

To be fair, the 7d2 is great for wildlife and sports photography, I doubt it was ever intended to be used as a video camera in any capacity. In that regard, you might have been better off with a 5d3 (which ML has now made 4k capable I hear) or a 6d, or even an 80d given the dual pixel AF system. 

 

In that sense, ML developers may have anticipated that ML wouldn't really be required by most 7d2 users, and to be honest, while I do like the peaking capabilities, I wouldn't get ML on my 5d3, I don't think its worth the trouble if you only shoot stills, mainly because, I only use Livevew for landscapes, where I don't really need the peaking since its basically always at infinity. Everywhere else, I use the vf, and while I wouldn't like a complete evf, I wouldn't say no to a hybrid. Till that becomes a thing I'd rather have the power saving and reliability of the OVF. (try shooting a concert or a night club, or anything without constant lighting with an evf and youll get my point. ) 

[DCWalt]

3 minutes ago, cc143 said:

To be fair, the 7d2 is great for wildlife and sports photography, I doubt it was ever intended to be used as a video camera in any capacity. In that regard, you might have been better off with a 5d3 (which ML has now made 4k capable I hear) or a 6d, or even an 80d given the dual pixel AF system. 

 

In that sense, ML developers may have anticipated that ML wouldn't really be required by most 7d2 users, and to be honest, while I do like the peaking capabilities, I wouldn't get ML on my 5d3, I don't think its worth the trouble if you only shoot stills, mainly because, I only use Livevew for landscapes, where I don't really need the peaking since its basically always at infinity. Everywhere else, I use the vf, and while I wouldn't like a complete evf, I wouldn't say no to a hybrid. Till that becomes a thing I'd rather have the power saving and reliability of the OVF. (try shooting a concert or a night club, or anything without constant lighting with an evf and youll get my point. ) 

The 7d was the camera that MADE magic lantern. it was incredibly popular with student and indi filmmakers. It's cheaper than the 5d with most of the same functionality even if it has a smaller sensor. Canon is well aware of the cameras popularity in the video and film markets and included some pretty stellar upgrades to the video capabilities in the new one. I'm not sure if they had ML in mind when they made the camera (I kind of doubt it) but the truth is the 7dmkII has ALOT of power that is un-used by canon's firmware. Canon doesn't even take advantage of the new possessor or higher bandwidth to the SD card slot. Whether they meant to or not canon handed the magic lantern community a goldmine and they did nothing with it because they don't want to port the firmware to the new processor. A processor that by the way is going into ALL of canons new DSLRs. MagicLantern is dying because of the communities unwillingness to progress.

[AkiraDaarkst]

38 minutes ago, DCWalt said:

MagicLantern is dying because of the communities unwillingness to progress.

That and stronger competition from Sony, Panasonic, Black Magic and Canon's own EOS C series video cameras.  Including video features in DSLRs were revolutionary a few years ago but now proper video cameras with large sensors that can rival old school film in many ways are becoming more affordable (relatively speaking).

 

And from your side as the consumer, think about the investment.  Instead of only looking at what solution you need now, think about how you can invest in something that will last you a few years or something you will be using often.  The Atomos Ninja 2 is nice, but is it a solution that you need only for one time use or will be used quite a lot?  This way of thinking doesn't just apply to your question about the Ninja 2 right now, it also applies to the camera and any other purchase you will have to make.

[DCWalt]

51 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

That and stronger competition from Sony, Panasonic, Black Magic and Canon's own EOS C series video cameras.  Including video features in DSLRs were revolutionary a few years ago but now proper video cameras with large sensors that can rival old school film in many ways are becoming more affordable (relatively speaking).

 

And from your side as the consumer, think about the investment.  Instead of only looking at what solution you need now, think about how you can invest in something that will last you a few years or something you will be using often.  The Atomos Ninja 2 is nice, but is it a solution that you need only for one time use or will be used quite a lot?  This way of thinking doesn't just apply to your question about the Ninja 2 right now, it also applies to the camera and any other purchase you will have to make.

I spend weeks if not months thinking and researching before I buy anything. That doesn't mean mistakes don't happen. I didn't expect to find myself needing to record for hours at a time. When I bought the 7dmk2 it was for making short films. It was on special at B&H. I thought about getting the pocket cinema instead as they where close in price but I already had canon lenses and I'm a photographer as well so it didn't make sense to get the pocket cinema and leave myself without a still camera and have to invest in ether new lenses or adapters. I need a solution to my problem NOW and I don't have the money to just up and get a new camera. I'm not making thoughtless decisions I'm just trying to work within my limits. truth is I'll never buy another canon camera. I despise their video compression and the limits they impose. but like I said, i'm not in a position to get a new one right now.

 

By the way, I found the setting to keep the camera from turning off after 30 minuets but it still goes into a power save mode that you have to snap it out of and as far as I can tell I can't turn that off. I need to fix this for around $300 or $400. Can't buy a worthwhile camera for that, even used. at least not one to fit my needs.